Poll: Starting QB 2006

[onlydarksets]

Brunell, but it would be nice to see Campbell get some PT toward the end of the season.

[Twilbert07]

Brunell's comeback peaked in the couple of games after Dallas.

Now, he's back to a middle-of-the-pack QB. In passing yards, he ranks 15th (2,356 yards) and his QB rating is 13th (86.8).

Bring on Campbell next year, and keep Brunell as a seasoned veteran backup.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

Brunell's comeback peaked in the couple of games after Dallas.

Now, he's back to a middle-of-the-pack QB. In passing yards, he ranks 15th (2,356 yards) and his QB rating is 13th (86.8).

Bring on Campbell next year, and keep Brunell as a seasoned veteran backup.

That's better than his career QB rating, and his third highest for a full season. He'll end up with ~3500 yards, which is, again, right around his average. The only stat that is really out of whack is the fumbles lost. He averages about 5-6 (with 2-3 lost) per year, but is on pace for almost 13 fumbles with 10 lost this year.

Maybe that says something, but I don't think he's "suddenly" a middle-of-the-pack QB. He is what he's always been, stat-wise.


http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1032

[Twilbert07]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

That's better than his career QB rating, and his third highest for a full season. He'll end up with ~3500 yards, which is, again, right around his average. The only stat that is really out of whack is the fumbles lost. He averages about 5-6 (with 2-3 lost) per year, but is on pace for almost 13 fumbles with 10 lost this year.

Maybe that says something, but I don't think he's "suddenly" a middle-of-the-pack QB. He is what he's always been, stat-wise.


http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1032

I never said he "suddenly" was middle of the pack. I said he was "back to a middle-of-the-pack QB." And that means, he's back to where he's always been - an adequate QB who can manage games. However, as others have said on this thread, his fumbling is a major problem. (For Ramsey, it was one-and-done when it came to fumbles this year.)

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Twilbert07

I never said he "suddenly" was middle of the pack. I said he was "back to a middle-of-the-pack QB." And that means, he's back to where he's always been - an adequate QB who can manage games. However, as others have said on this thread, his fumbling is a major problem. (For Ramsey, it was one-and-done when it came to fumbles this year.)

My bad - I thought you were referring to his performance last year.

[MTK]

I don't think Brunell has to take the team to the playoffs this year to justify his signing. He was brought in for what basically amounts to a 3-year deal. I would fully expect him to remain the starter for next year, Ramsey will stay at the #2 unless a quality trade offer comes along, and Campbell will remain as the #3.

[NFLeurope]

Matty i must say i disagree...i mean nothing against you of course...but i feel like it is undeniable that brunell was brought in here to win right away. If he hasnt done it for two years then i dont see how it couldnt have been better at the time to just keep Ramsey...and see what the guy could or couldnt do. Then at least we would have known for sure whether he had what it takes...and if not...we could have drafted someone else...ie cambell...and not to mention having money left over to sign a different guy that could have actually helped improve the team...either a d-lineman or helping retain peirce or just simply being in a healthier cap situation going forward.

I mean i am not blaming Gibbs...because he was of course doing what he felt was in the best interests of the club and could not know in advance what would have come out of it. However...if we do not make playoffs for the second year in a row that brunell has been starting...then there is no question in my mind that if we had it to do all over again...i would prefer to keep Ramsey...See what we had in him...and then draft someone else if he didnt workout. Therefore from my standpoint...if one agrees with that assessment...that if we do not make playoffs they would not have signed Brunell if they had to do it again...then i believe that is implicitly saying that he was not a good signing...thats just the way i see it though.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by NFLeurope

Matty i must say i disagree...i mean nothing against you of course...but i feel like it is undeniable that brunell was brought in here to win right away. If he hasnt done it for two years then i dont see how it couldnt have been better at the time to just keep Ramsey at the time...and see what the guy could or couldnt do. Then at least we would have known for sure whether he had what it takes...and if not...we could have drafted someone else...ie cambell...and not to mention having money left over to sign a different guy that could have actually helped improve the team...either a d-lineman or helping retain peirce or just simply being in a healthier cap situation going forward.

I mean i am not blaming Gibbs...because he was of course doing what he felt was in the best interests of the club and could not know in advance what would have come out of it. However...if we do not make playoffs for the second year in a row that brunell has been starting...then there is no question in my mind that if we had it to do all over again...i would prefer to keep Ramsey...See what we had in him...and then draft someone else if he didnt workout. Therefore from my standpoint...if one agrees with that assessment...that if we do not make playoffs they would not have signed Brunell if they had to do it again...then i believe that is implicitly saying that he was not a good signing...thats just the way i see it though.

Good point - I was thinking along the same lines.

That said, given Brunell's resurgence this year, I think he has the capability to live up to his expectations (i.e., winning and getting to the playoffs). However, the big "plus" for MB was that he played mistake-free football in preseason and at the start of the season. He certainly hasn't been doing that lately, and he needs to get back to that to be successful.

[skinsguy]

To have to make the decision today, I would go with Mark Brunell. After all, our losses aren't his alone to own.

[skinsguy]

I think you also have to see it this way. A vital part of a young qb's development, especially in regards to a particular system, is to watch a veteran quarterback go out there and run the system. It helps the inexperienced guys see how things work, and it also helps to cut down on the "trial and error" time that it would normally take for QBs that are thrown into the fire from the start. The guys on the bench can see what works and what doesn't, or what the vet does to get out of bad situations. When a young qb sees how this is played on the field by the vet, then when he gets his chance, he is going to have a better understanding. Of course, ultimately, what helps the young guy out is to play, but at least he plays with a little more confidents in knowing he has an idea of how the system is supposed to be ran, rather than to basically go out there and guess. I think that is a big confidence booster for QBs like Ramsey and Campbell. The less mistakes they can cut down on before they even step out onto the field, the better they're going to play and the faster the development as well.

[MTK]

Last year was a wash for Brunell, Gibbs was trying to adjust his scheme, he didn't have the weapons he does now, he was playing hurt and it's no secret that the offense as a whole struggled.

This year we saw some flashes of what Brunell and this offense is capable of. I just think it's premature to say MB's time is over already. I don't see Ramsey getting another shot as the starter unless he really outperforms Brunell during the offseason, and I think we can forget about seeing Campbell until 2007.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Last year was a wash for Brunell, Gibbs was trying to adjust his scheme, he didn't have the weapons he does now, he was playing hurt and it's no secret that the offense as a whole struggled.

This year we saw some flashes of what Brunell and this offense is capable of. I just think it's premature to say MB's time is over already. I don't see Ramsey getting another shot as the starter unless he really outperforms Brunell during the offseason, and I think we can forget about seeing Campbell until 2007.

I don't think your and his positions are mutually exclusive. I think NFLeurope's point was that making the playoffs will be the ultimate determinative factor in gauging his success. Yours (and the point I tried to make) seems to be that we can't know whether he's successful or not till after next year.

I think those two points are correct. MB has, through his improved performance this season, earned the right to start next year (IMO). We'll see what he does with it...

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

I don't think your and his positions are mutually exclusive. I think NFLeurope's point was that making the playoffs will be the ultimate determinative factor in gauging his success. Yours (and the point I tried to make) seems to be that we can't know whether he's successful or not till after next year.

I think those two points are correct. MB has, through his improved performance this season, earned the right to start next year (IMO). We'll see what he does with it...

It would be nothing short of asinine to judge Mark Brunell primarily based on whether or not the Redskins make the playoffs. Last I checked it was a team game. Mark Brunell has held up his end of the bargain, he is running the offense efficiently and effectively. If we do indeed fall short of the playoffs, the blame can be placed:

1) Injuries to the defensive line (Griffin and Salavea'a make the defense great when they're healthy).
2) Lack of ability to power run the ball when needed.
3) Lack of a viable #2 WR.
4) Inconsistent play at the #2 CB spot.

You can't blame Mark Brunell, it's hard to ask for more from a QB than he has given us.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

It would be nothing short of asinine to judge Mark Brunell primarily based on whether or not the Redskins make the playoffs. Last I checked it was a team game. Mark Brunell has held up his end of the bargain, he is running the offense efficiently and effectively. If we do indeed fall short of the playoffs, the blame can be placed:

1) Injuries to the defensive line (Griffin and Salavea'a make the defense great when they're healthy).
2) Lack of ability to power run the ball when needed.
3) Lack of a viable #2 WR.
4) Inconsistent play at the #2 CB spot.

You can't blame Mark Brunell, it's hard to ask for more from a QB than he has given us.

Nobody said it was fair - it's just the way it is. QBs, however, are held to different standards. Nobody talks about how many games a RB or WR has won. If we don't make the playoffs, people will look back and ask why we brought in an aging QB instead of grooming younger talent.

Keep in mind - this isn't about MB or his talent. He is a winner and he has proved himself more or less on an increasing basis since he has been here. What willl be judged is the hindsight wisdom of the front office in bringing him here if the team does not make the playoffs.

[NFLeurope]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

It would be nothing short of asinine to judge Mark Brunell primarily based on whether or not the Redskins make the playoffs. Last I checked it was a team game. Mark Brunell has held up his end of the bargain, he is running the offense efficiently and effectively. If we do indeed fall short of the playoffs, the blame can be placed:

1) Injuries to the defensive line (Griffin and Salavea'a make the defense great when they're healthy).
2) Lack of ability to power run the ball when needed.
3) Lack of a viable #2 WR.
4) Inconsistent play at the #2 CB spot.

You can't blame Mark Brunell, it's hard to ask for more from a QB than he has given us.

Hey, im not sure whether or not this is a response to my post. But in case it is...perhaps i was not clear....what i said/meant to say was that I will judge the value of the BRUNELL SIGNING based on whether or not the skins make the playoffs. That i believe is a reasonable thing to do. The point is even if Brunell played pretty well...but not quite good enough to get us into playoffs...regardless of the multitude of other reasons there may have been for us not making playoffs...then ultimately his time with the skins was unsuccessful.

If you accept that much...then all im saying is if it had to be done again i would have rathered seen what Ramsey could do and hence chosen not to sign Brunell. Maybe Ramsey would have done better...maybe worse. But either way we wouldnt have been risking anything since the last two years...(if we dont make playoffs this year) will have been failures anyway. It should also be noted...that if Ramsey had started all of last season then our playoff drout may well have ended last year...since the NFC was so weak last year that 8-8 would have gotten us in.

In the end last year is last year and this year is this year...but all im saying is if they havnt found success in two years with the guy at the helm...then the decision to sign him was a mistake and it would have been much better for the organization to see what they had in Ramsey...and not sacrifice so much to get Brunell...

In terms of my stating that if the skins dont make the playoffs this year they ought to replace Brunell...well i guess that is just a gut feeling.

Because if we play Brunell next year and still dont make the playoffs...it will cast a huge shadow of doubt on this coaching staff and the moves they have made...

At least if we are playing a younger guy next year...whether or not we make the playoffs it will work toward developing someone for the future.

Just imagine if you start brunell...he doesnt get you to the playoffs...you wasted Ramsey completely, and Cambpell is still a rookie in terms of playing experience...cause he hasnt gotten any game time...that is just a situation that i would not be willing to risk...and is pretty much the worst case scenario i can imaigine... That is why i think the move should be made after this season...if we do not make the playoffs...to make Brunell the backup...a position i belive he will be perfectly suited to assume on a Gibbs team.