Mark Maske on 980 today...

[SmootSmack]

Mike Shanahan? For all intents and purposes Andy Reid has been (at least until this year) the Coach/GM and he at least made the Super Bowl. I'm sure there might be others.

I just think "We need a GM" is such an open-ended statement

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Mike Shanahan? For all intents and purposes Andy Reid has been (at least until this year) the Coach/GM and he at least made the Super Bowl. I'm sure there might be others.

I just think "We need a GM" is such an open-ended statement

OK - If we don't get a GM so be it. But can the Redskins get rid of Vinny Cerrato and bring in someone who has a really good track record with drafting and trades? We could keep the same title for all I care as Vinny had and just pay him more than the team he is on. Would this suffice?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Bill B

OK - If we don't get a GM so be it. But can the Redskins get rid of Vinny Cerrato and bring in someone who has a really good track record with drafting and trades? We could keep the same title for all I care as Vinny had and just pay him more than the team he is on. Would this suffice?

Are you aware of what he actually does?

Why do you think removing him would make anything any better?

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Are you aware of what he actually does?

Why do you think removing him would make anything any better?

I can look at what they have done in the draft and I would have to think that he had at least some pull in the decision making in these drafts and I don't belive they have been too successful with their picks/trading of picks. He is the VP of player personnel so I would think that Gibbs has to rely on him for somewhat for these decsions or the Redskins are wasting a couple $100,000 on paying Vinny for nothing.

But I think a better way to jusge how bad Vinny is how the Skins did before Gibbs came back.

Case in point: What did the Skins do but sign all those overpriced aging veterans in 2000. You may say the Dan Synder had a lot to do with that, but let me ask you this - if Vinny was a good player personnel director wouldn't he have the knowledge/courage to tell Dan to not overspend like that? Vinny has even said it was a major mistake to do what they did at the time. I always thought if you made mistakes like that at most companies you get fired, but Vinny still resides at Redskins Park

[MTK]

Let's clarify this true GM thing, I think it should be the right GM. Because simply putting a GM in place isn't going to answer our problems. I think Gibbs learned some pretty painful lessons last year and they'll take a much closer look at things this offseason and perhaps make some changes that won't be visible to us. I believe if Gibbs thought bringing in a GM would solve everything he would have done it. If there's one thing he's not afraid of doing it's making any change necessary to benefit the team. I guess he doesn't see a GM as being the answer right now.

[Bill B]

Here is a better way to address Vinny. Lets say you are the winning bidder on a brand new football franchise. Now you are set to start in one year - would you bring in Vinny Cerrato in any capacity on your new team? If yes please explain why.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Bill B

Here is a better way to address Vinny. Lets say you are the winning bidder on a brand new football franchise. Now you are set to start in one year - would you bring in Vinny Cerrato in any capacity on your new team? If yes please explain why.

I'm sure he knows a helluva lot more than you or I and like he said he does have a Super Bowl ring and a National Championship on his resume. So if I was somehow going to be running a NFL franchise and Vinny was on my speed dial, I wouldn't put my knowledge level above his and not call him.

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm sure he knows a helluva lot more than you or I and like he said he does have a Super Bowl ring and a National Championship on his resume. So if I was somehow going to be running a NFL franchise and Vinny was on my speed dial, I wouldn't put my knowledge level above his and not call him.

But what I am trying to get at is there are others out there besides him. I am not trying to say you or I are above him, but that there are others out there that are above him that you would call first.

[70Chip]

Cerrato has power inside the Redskins because he has proximity to Snyder. He has no power independently and yes, he mainly exists so Snyder will have someone to yell at, but we can't assume that his opinions do not greatly affect Snyder's thinking. Now, Snyder ceded most of the power to Gibbs, but I think he still weighs in. So Cerrato has limited influence indirectly, IMO.

I think the problems with the front office are more fundamental. The Redskins have pro scouts whose job is to evaluate FA just like there are college scouts for the draft and UDFA. Why no one has been fired over the A.A. debacle is beyond me. We need some new scouts.

[SmootSmack]

The Lions, on paper, have the front office model a lot of people here think will solve everything. I'm just sayin'

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

The Lions, on paper, have the front office model a lot of people here think will solve everything. I'm just sayin'

Tafkas - I guess what I am getting at is what I belive the Redskins should focus on is getting a player personnel person that has a really good history with drafts and trades and overpay him so his current team cannot match. If the Skins brought Millen in I, like many other fans, would be pissed. But if you brought in someone who has a great history of making good drafts and trades I know I would be a happy camper.

Now since good GMs/player personel men are hard to come by I would think almost by default you would have to change the structure of the FO - you couldn't bring in a Scott Pioli and say Gibbs would be able to override all your decisions because he is in such demand and coming from a position of power in New England. So my proposal would be at least something similar to what Gibbs and Bethard had where Bethard had control over draft picks and if Gibbs wanted a FA he could go get him (although I would say that since the cap was not in effect at the time you would propbably need to have GM approval as far as contract amounts go so we could avoid overspending)

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Bill B

Tafkas - I guess what I am getting at is what I belive the Redskins should focus on is getting a player personnel person that has a really good history with drafts and trades and overpay him so his current team cannot match. If the Skins brought Millen in I, like many other fans, would be pissed. But if you brought in someone who has a great history of making good drafts and trades I know I would be a happy camper.

Now since good GMs/player personel men are hard to come by I would think almost by default you would have to change the structure of the FO - you couldn't bring in a Scott Pioli and say Gibbs would be able to override all your decisions because he is in such demand and coming from a position of power in New England. So my proposal would be at least something similar to what Gibbs and Bethard had where Bethard had control over draft picks and if Gibbs wanted a FA he could go get him (although I would say that since the cap was not in effect at the time you would propbably need to have GM approval as far as contract amounts go so we could avoid overspending)

I don't think that the talent we bring in is that bad its the way they are handled after we decide who we want. Take Loyd for example he had another year on his contract which we could have gone with to see how he would work out and if it went as it did this past year let him go. We offered him a deal which he did not have to work for and now we are stuck with him. I think if he had one year deal here he may have worked harder to earn that new deal and then give him the deal we did. I know there have been other bad pick up's but if we did not give all of that money it would not as big of deal to get rid of them. Now we get stuck with a player with a big contract that no teams wnat to deal with. I just feel that we jump the gun on what we offer people and could get them for a lower price. Brunell is another example of over playing a person that we could have picked up for a much lower price and he may have been gone after his first year if we were not stuck with that big contract.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

If anything, HE'S not the one overpaying.

People call for GM, they call for this and call for that. How about just hiring a few decent talent evaluators?

[FRPLG]

Do you know what Vinny does? He has no decision making responsibility at all. He is the scouting coordinator and Snyder's eyes and ears. That's it. If you want a guy who is a better scout (ie: the guy who evaluates talent and gives opinions) then so be it but he doesn't make trades, conduct the draft, or make any personell decisions. He watches film and grades players. That's it.

[MTK]

I found a good article on Vinny

Cerrato's Special Working Relationship

I think he makes a great point here:

"When you're losing, no one wants to talk about getting Shawn Springs, or Cornelius Griffin or Marcus Washington. When you're losing, it becomes 'why did you take Mike Barrow or Mark Brunell?'