Second look at Ramsey

JWsleep · 09-21-2004, 12:24 PM

But I think this is becuase of salary cap/free agent issues, not becuase of talent or anything. People just can't afford to develop peospects, or so it seems. But Chad Pennington was a backup for quite a while with the Jets, for example. ANd it's not like Peyton Manning led the colts to lots of victories early on. I think also that GMs/coaches give up to quickly on guys. It's just win NOW, baby, or see ya. Anyway, the reason Brunnell is here is to give Gibbs and Co. time to develop PR. They are old school in that sense, though they took a lot of shi* for spending that money.

SmootSmack · 09-21-2004, 12:38 PM

Nice points JW

How about Brad Johnson and Trent Green? Those guys spent years riding the pine

skinsfanthru&thru · 09-21-2004, 01:12 PM

it's kinda funny how we try to rationalize some things when everything gets chaotic. plain and simple we all know ramsey can do some things other qbs on our staff can't do but then he also does some things no qbs should ever do.

JudgeJebus · 09-21-2004, 01:42 PM

Thanks for breaking that down for us (or at least copying it for us). That was actually quite interesting.

That Guy · 09-21-2004, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Good point. Tim Couch is no longer in the NFL. Cade McNown is longer in the NFL. Sometimes the pressure to produce immediately causes young QB's to digress or remain stagnant. Joey Harrington is leading the Lions. Carr is leading the Texans and Brady is commandeering his Patriots to a 18-0 winning streak and Ramsey is a work in progress. Is this what we want to settle for with all of the money we have spent?

hmm.. trent green... matt hasselbeck... they are lots of others, and all those guys you listed spent more than 1 offseason in their system before doing anything i believe.

That Guy · 09-21-2004, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Dude, Ramsey lost this game. He threw the first INT on the 7 yard. The pass was late, too short and no zip at all. The second INT I blame him for also. Coles wasn't within 10 ft. of the ball

umm... the score was 20-7 when he came in and 20-14 at the end... he didn't lose it, he just didn't win it... and ramsey threw to where coles should have been... thats how routes in the nfl work. You said he was held up before ramsey threw it, but unless you were there, i see no way from the tv angles you could have seen what coles was or wasn't doing when ramsey let go...

jdlea · 09-21-2004, 03:16 PM

Saying Ramsey lost the game is BS w/o Ramsey throwing the Skins wouldn't have been in it! Wack ass Brunell's arm got exposed in week 1. HE'S TOO OLD. Ramsey will grow out of pressing so much...there's no cure for the game passing you by. Brunell can't hack it, he plays scared. I can't remember if it was a play where Brunell fumbled (I think so) but he rolled out after a blitzer was PICKED UP by Clinton Portis, Brunell rolled right into a sack and I believe a turnover. Last week Brunell had at least 3 possessions end because he checked down and didn't go for the first down on third and long. Maybe taking a shot is better than throwing a 7 yard curl to Coles with 2 defenders on top of him as soon as he catches on a 3rd and 12 play.

In addition to his arm, he makes bad decisions. He made another hand off this week that he shouldn't have made. This one didn't result in a fumble, but when he's falling down and trying to hand the ball to Portis, he's essentially stripping him as soon as the ball gets there. Brunell is a mistake. They should let Ramsey learn.

Ramsey did make some horrible decisions against the Giants. However, had he not driven them for one score the Skins wouldn't have been in this game. Brunell wouldn't have done it. It's not in him anymore. I don't care how many picks he threw, if Ramsey plays he'll learn not to do it. They should go with Ramsey and leave him alone.

Everyone on this board calls Ramsey a "work in progress." That's fine. I'd like to point out that if the Redskins had any patience whatsoever he would be a great QB right now. Harrington and Carr are both playing well, they got to start from day 1. Ramsey has seen spot starting and a starting job that got him planted everytime they called a pass play. As far as his inability to call audibles in that system; take a look at the tape again Matty, everytime Brunell audibled the play materialized into nothing. Ramsey will be a good QB, he has better physical skills than any of the other 2 QB's he was drafted with, they just need to start him and not make him look over his shoulder. He's the better QB.

sportscurmudgeon · 09-21-2004, 04:10 PM

Patrick Ramsey did NOT lose the game on Sunday. Let's not get carried away here. That loss was a total team effort.

Patrick Ramsey did NOT look good in the game on Sunday. If you want to say that he had great footwork in the pocket and a timed release of the ball and is ready for his nomination to Canton Ohio, you are free to do so. You are also getting carried away in the other direction.

Gardner's drops were horrendous and did not help the Skins and made Ramsey's efforts less than wonderful. By the same token, Gardner's catch on Ramsey's "50 yard heave" was a circus catch. The ball was overthrown and Cardner put the Skins in a position to score with his extraordinary effort. It was not nearly enough.

What Ramsey lacks is consistency - same for Gardner. Is that lack of experience or lack of concentration or what? I don't read minds; I don't know. Here is what I do know. In September 2004, Patrick Ramsey is not capable of being the starting QB for an NFL football team that expects to go deep into the playoffs. Maybe a lightbulb will go off in his head and he'll "get it" all of a sudden and lead this team somewhere positive this year. But until I see on field evidence of that "got it" position, I'm not going to feel very confident if he as to start the next few games.

Kyle Boller is a second year QB with limited experience. He has played about as well as Ramsey has. Is anyone here ready to anoint Boller as a great QB yet? I didn't think so.

Marc Bulger has about the same experience base as Ramsey. Which one is better right now? Neither is star quality, but if you think Ramsey is better, you are deluding yourself.

Rex Grossman has significantly LESS experience than Ramsey. Who is the better starting QB FOR NEXT SUNDAY ?

How about AJ Feeley? I think I prefer Ramsey, but not by much?

Do not even put Ramsey in the same paragraph with Harrington or Carr as of September 2004. It makes no sense to do that.

And if you want to revel in the fact that Couch and McNown are out of the NFL (as is Akili Smith from that same draft), please do not forget to recall that Donovan McNabb and Duante Culpepper are still around and seem to have "gotten it" a whole lot sooner than Ramsey and those other guys. Or is someone here about to say that he'd rather have Ramsey over McNabb and/or Culpepper?

Hogskin · 09-21-2004, 05:01 PM

The play-by-play was interesting to read, but you could see a definite bias throughout it. One example: on one late throw, he said Ramsey double-clutched "due to pressure". Well I did not see it that way, and neither did Aikman who commented about his indecisiveness and the double-clutch. There are more like this, but no use dragging out details.

Bottom line is, we ALL hope Ramsey miraculously turns it around and becomes a stud - our QB of the future. The only difference is that some of use feel it has reached the point where it is an extremely remote possibility, and others of you feel he is just about there now.

As far as losing the game, the offense did it for sure. Ramsey played a big part, Gardner played a BIGGER part, and Portis/Brunell helped some. Now we gotta get ready to kick some cowboy ASS!!!!!!

MTK · 09-22-2004, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Patrick Ramsey did NOT lose the game on Sunday. Let's not get carried away here. That loss was a total team effort.

Patrick Ramsey did NOT look good in the game on Sunday. If you want to say that he had great footwork in the pocket and a timed release of the ball and is ready for his nomination to Canton Ohio, you are free to do so. You are also getting carried away in the other direction.

Gardner's drops were horrendous and did not help the Skins and made Ramsey's efforts less than wonderful. By the same token, Gardner's catch on Ramsey's "50 yard heave" was a circus catch. The ball was overthrown and Cardner put the Skins in a position to score with his extraordinary effort. It was not nearly enough.

What Ramsey lacks is consistency - same for Gardner. Is that lack of experience or lack of concentration or what? I don't read minds; I don't know. Here is what I do know. In September 2004, Patrick Ramsey is not capable of being the starting QB for an NFL football team that expects to go deep into the playoffs. Maybe a lightbulb will go off in his head and he'll "get it" all of a sudden and lead this team somewhere positive this year. But until I see on field evidence of that "got it" position, I'm not going to feel very confident if he as to start the next few games.

Kyle Boller is a second year QB with limited experience. He has played about as well as Ramsey has. Is anyone here ready to anoint Boller as a great QB yet? I didn't think so.

Marc Bulger has about the same experience base as Ramsey. Which one is better right now? Neither is star quality, but if you think Ramsey is better, you are deluding yourself.

Rex Grossman has significantly LESS experience than Ramsey. Who is the better starting QB FOR NEXT SUNDAY ?

How about AJ Feeley? I think I prefer Ramsey, but not by much?

Do not even put Ramsey in the same paragraph with Harrington or Carr as of September 2004. It makes no sense to do that.

And if you want to revel in the fact that Couch and McNown are out of the NFL (as is Akili Smith from that same draft), please do not forget to recall that Donovan McNabb and Duante Culpepper are still around and seem to have "gotten it" a whole lot sooner than Ramsey and those other guys. Or is someone here about to say that he'd rather have Ramsey over McNabb and/or Culpepper?

I was merely pointing out Ramsey's footwork and release because others have said he hasn't improved in that area, don't confuse that for a nomination for Canton.

Right now Bulger is better than Ramsey, Feeley isn't, Grossman isn't, as for Carr and Harrington of course it's not fair to compare that trio, Carr and Harrington are the unquestioned franchise QB's, their teams have built the offenses around them, we haven't shown the same commitment to Ramsey just yet.

But just for the sake of comparing the numbers, Ramsey's does hold up pretty well when you look at each QB's first 16 starts.

SUNRA · 09-21-2004, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

umm... the score was 20-7 when he came in and 20-14 at the end... he didn't lose it, he just didn't win it... and ramsey threw to where coles should have been... thats how routes in the nfl work. You said he was held up before ramsey threw it, but unless you were there, i see no way from the tv angles you could have seen what coles was or wasn't doing when ramsey let go...

I was there. Sorry the TV angles didn't get that part.

bedlamVR · 09-21-2004, 05:04 PM

Culppepper has been though his growing pains but has been given time, McNabbs sucess is not based on his QB skills but the sucess of the team in general in my oppinion. He hasn't had alot of offensive tools but Feely took the keys to the Eagles and they hardly missed a beat a few years ago.

Look at the situation he was put into he starts his glittering NFL career as possible trade bait with the Bears then being mentored by Shane mathews and Dany W and inducted into the NFL under the toutelage of Steve Spurrier who changed QBs like his socks. The point of this... yes he should be further on his career but then his career could have been better thus far...

Hogskin · 09-21-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedlamVR

McNabbs sucess is not based on his QB skills but the sucess of the team in general in my oppinion.

That sounds like the Rush Limbaugh opinion (NOT referring to the racial aspect of it). The fact is, that the TEAM got better when McNABB arrived, not the reverse. His excellent presence in the pocket and running skills turned a less than average offense around.

Gmanc711 · 09-21-2004, 05:47 PM

No I'm saying, If it were to be 0-0 when Ramsey entered the game... It was Redskins 7 Giants 0

That Guy · 09-21-2004, 06:12 PM

i used to think mcnabb was just another mediocre QB, but i've changed my opinion on that a bit

TO helps... he outplayed culpepper last night easily... but the eagles D is quite a bit better than the vikings D too...

McNabb wouldn't be at the top of my list, but he's definately be in the top 8 or so...

09-21-2004, 12:24 PM	#1
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 56 Posts: 4,719	But I think this is becuase of salary cap/free agent issues, not becuase of talent or anything. People just can't afford to develop peospects, or so it seems. But Chad Pennington was a backup for quite a while with the Jets, for example. ANd it's not like Peyton Manning led the colts to lots of victories early on. I think also that GMs/coaches give up to quickly on guys. It's just win NOW, baby, or see ya. Anyway, the reason Brunnell is here is to give Gibbs and Co. time to develop PR. They are old school in that sense, though they took a lot of shi* for spending that money. __________________ Hail from Houston!

09-21-2004, 12:38 PM	#2
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Nice points JW How about Brad Johnson and Trent Green? Those guys spent years riding the pine __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

09-21-2004, 04:10 PM	#8
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Patrick Ramsey did NOT lose the game on Sunday. Let's not get carried away here. That loss was a total team effort. Patrick Ramsey did NOT look good in the game on Sunday. If you want to say that he had great footwork in the pocket and a timed release of the ball and is ready for his nomination to Canton Ohio, you are free to do so. You are also getting carried away in the other direction. Gardner's drops were horrendous and did not help the Skins and made Ramsey's efforts less than wonderful. By the same token, Gardner's catch on Ramsey's "50 yard heave" was a circus catch. The ball was overthrown and Cardner put the Skins in a position to score with his extraordinary effort. It was not nearly enough. What Ramsey lacks is consistency - same for Gardner. Is that lack of experience or lack of concentration or what? I don't read minds; I don't know. Here is what I do know. In September 2004, Patrick Ramsey is not capable of being the starting QB for an NFL football team that expects to go deep into the playoffs. Maybe a lightbulb will go off in his head and he'll "get it" all of a sudden and lead this team somewhere positive this year. But until I see on field evidence of that "got it" position, I'm not going to feel very confident if he as to start the next few games. Kyle Boller is a second year QB with limited experience. He has played about as well as Ramsey has. Is anyone here ready to anoint Boller as a great QB yet? I didn't think so. Marc Bulger has about the same experience base as Ramsey. Which one is better right now? Neither is star quality, but if you think Ramsey is better, you are deluding yourself. Rex Grossman has significantly LESS experience than Ramsey. Who is the better starting QB FOR NEXT SUNDAY ? How about AJ Feeley? I think I prefer Ramsey, but not by much? Do not even put Ramsey in the same paragraph with Harrington or Carr as of September 2004. It makes no sense to do that. And if you want to revel in the fact that Couch and McNown are out of the NFL (as is Akili Smith from that same draft), please do not forget to recall that Donovan McNabb and Duante Culpepper are still around and seem to have "gotten it" a whole lot sooner than Ramsey and those other guys. Or is someone here about to say that he'd rather have Ramsey over McNabb and/or Culpepper? __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

09-21-2004, 05:01 PM	#9
Hogskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hartselle, Alabama Age: 84 Posts: 659	The play-by-play was interesting to read, but you could see a definite bias throughout it. One example: on one late throw, he said Ramsey double-clutched "due to pressure". Well I did not see it that way, and neither did Aikman who commented about his indecisiveness and the double-clutch. There are more like this, but no use dragging out details. Bottom line is, we ALL hope Ramsey miraculously turns it around and becomes a stud - our QB of the future. The only difference is that some of use feel it has reached the point where it is an extremely remote possibility, and others of you feel he is just about there now. As far as losing the game, the offense did it for sure. Ramsey played a big part, Gardner played a BIGGER part, and Portis/Brunell helped some. Now we gotta get ready to kick some cowboy ASS!!!!!! __________________ John Shaffer National Fantasy Sports Leagues, Inc. Home of "The BEST Game In Town" since 1990

09-21-2004, 01:12 PM	#3
skinsfanthru&thru Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 45 Posts: 3,814	it's kinda funny how we try to rationalize some things when everything gets chaotic. plain and simple we all know ramsey can do some things other qbs on our staff can't do but then he also does some things no qbs should ever do.

09-21-2004, 01:42 PM	#4
JudgeJebus Camp Scrub Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 85	Thanks for breaking that down for us (or at least copying it for us). That was actually quite interesting.

09-21-2004, 03:16 PM	#7
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 41 Posts: 3,109	Saying Ramsey lost the game is BS w/o Ramsey throwing the Skins wouldn't have been in it! Wack ass Brunell's arm got exposed in week 1. HE'S TOO OLD. Ramsey will grow out of pressing so much...there's no cure for the game passing you by. Brunell can't hack it, he plays scared. I can't remember if it was a play where Brunell fumbled (I think so) but he rolled out after a blitzer was PICKED UP by Clinton Portis, Brunell rolled right into a sack and I believe a turnover. Last week Brunell had at least 3 possessions end because he checked down and didn't go for the first down on third and long. Maybe taking a shot is better than throwing a 7 yard curl to Coles with 2 defenders on top of him as soon as he catches on a 3rd and 12 play. In addition to his arm, he makes bad decisions. He made another hand off this week that he shouldn't have made. This one didn't result in a fumble, but when he's falling down and trying to hand the ball to Portis, he's essentially stripping him as soon as the ball gets there. Brunell is a mistake. They should let Ramsey learn. Ramsey did make some horrible decisions against the Giants. However, had he not driven them for one score the Skins wouldn't have been in this game. Brunell wouldn't have done it. It's not in him anymore. I don't care how many picks he threw, if Ramsey plays he'll learn not to do it. They should go with Ramsey and leave him alone. Everyone on this board calls Ramsey a "work in progress." That's fine. I'd like to point out that if the Redskins had any patience whatsoever he would be a great QB right now. Harrington and Carr are both playing well, they got to start from day 1. Ramsey has seen spot starting and a starting job that got him planted everytime they called a pass play. As far as his inability to call audibles in that system; take a look at the tape again Matty, everytime Brunell audibled the play materialized into nothing. Ramsey will be a good QB, he has better physical skills than any of the other 2 QB's he was drafted with, they just need to start him and not make him look over his shoulder. He's the better QB.

09-21-2004, 05:04 PM	#12
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	Culppepper has been though his growing pains but has been given time, McNabbs sucess is not based on his QB skills but the sucess of the team in general in my oppinion. He hasn't had alot of offensive tools but Feely took the keys to the Eagles and they hardly missed a beat a few years ago. Look at the situation he was put into he starts his glittering NFL career as possible trade bait with the Bears then being mentored by Shane mathews and Dany W and inducted into the NFL under the toutelage of Steve Spurrier who changed QBs like his socks. The point of this... yes he should be further on his career but then his career could have been better thus far...

09-21-2004, 05:47 PM	#14
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	No I'm saying, If it were to be 0-0 when Ramsey entered the game... It was Redskins 7 Giants 0

09-21-2004, 06:12 PM	#15
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,620	i used to think mcnabb was just another mediocre QB, but i've changed my opinion on that a bit TO helps... he outplayed culpepper last night easily... but the eagles D is quite a bit better than the vikings D too... McNabb wouldn't be at the top of my list, but he's definately be in the top 8 or so...

Second look at Ramsey

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