thread of reason

CRT3 · 10-04-2004, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

I don't know who called your opinions crap, but I think this thread was to be for the purpose of considering what progress we have made rather than what we haven't done. There are enough threads here to express your anger with this season.

Well Ramsey fan has a good point on mostly everything, but let me be the one that says his opions on Brunell is CRAP. He has played within the system. Typically avoids the sack and the interception. Lets see 1 interception in 3 1/2 games. The play calling has been up and down. What has he done that is so terribly wrong. Please show me somthing other then he sucks, be at the very least annaltical.

SUNRA · 10-04-2004, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

Does letting us reason together mean I accept your view?

No it doesn't mean accepting anything. It simply means to consider the positive things that have happened with this team and not call out every player or staff member that made a mistake. You would agree that there are enough threads on this website to vent your anger. On this thread, it was simply asked not to do that.

celts32 · 10-03-2004, 09:19 PM

I think that I am one of the more levelheaded skins fans that post on this site. However, I have had it with Portis already. I can't take his fumbles anymore! A RB that fumbles is absolutely useless! Right now I can not stand him and I cringe whenever he touches the ball! They clearly would have won today without that fumble. A fumble on the first play of the second half is absolutely devastating. I think that he has been the biggest factor in 2 losses so far. Against NY he had one fumble returned for a TD and I think he fumbled on the criticle 1st possesion of the 3rd quarter. That's 2 fumbles to start the 3rd quarter. Your first pssession in the second half is arguably the most important of the game. SO not only is he fumbling but he is also picking the most inopportune time. I can't stand it. I wish they had a good enough backup so they could sit his ass on the bench!

SmootSmack · 10-03-2004, 09:24 PM

A couple of our positives from last year were McCants and Rock. I'd like to see them a little more involved in the offense. I think they can be factored into the offense without significantly changing the philosophy of the offense.

Jamaican'Skin · 10-03-2004, 09:26 PM

Now that I've cooled down, I think that the Offense needs to click. D gets tired after a while if they're on the field all day. I think once the O begins to click, we are going to be a very dangerous team.

redrock-skins · 10-03-2004, 09:32 PM

I agree with you. While I too am disappointed in the start of our season, this "doom and gloom" almost rivals my Yankees Fan Board I belong too. Only they vent like this after each of the 61 losses the Yanks had this year. Many people are turning into "mini-Steinbrenners" here. Now is not the time to cut, bench, fire, trade, maim, kill, or destroy anyone on our team just yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Only cool heads allowed to post here.

No posts about Ramsey needs to start, Portis is a bust, the playcalling stinks, the ref in the booth needs to be fired, cut this guy, cut that guy, etc.

Call me crazy but I don't think we're far from turning this thing around. I think guys are pressing a bit right now. They're not 100% comfortable in the offensive system and they're thinking too much about assignments/responsibilities and not just playing football.

The first quarter of the season is over and I know 1-3 isn't pretty, but, we still have 3/4 of the season to go. If we can improve just one game per quarter we can finish still finish 10-6. There's still alot of ball to be played, and alot of room for improvement.

Cutting or benching guys and flip flopping starting QB's isn't the answer and Gibbs isn't going to panic and pull crap like this, so let's just forget about that nonsense and worry about the team mastering the system and improving the best they can week to week.

cpayne5 · 10-03-2004, 09:39 PM

Charles Mann brought up something very interesting in the post game show today.

He said that in all his years under Gibbs, they NEVER lost to the TB Bucs. The Bucs were terrible, but before every game against them, JG would talk to his team about how the Bucs weren't that bad and that they could be beaten by them. He said that they won all those games because every player on that team believed 100% in Gibbs and didn't believe the Bucs were a pushover. He said the guys went out there and gave 100% and PLAYED FOOTBALL. He then went on to say that this team is not believing 100% in JG yet and that they need to go out there and just do their jobs and play football. He said that the players who don't believe ('prima donas', I think he said) will be shipped out and that the ones that stay will become a great team.

Just some calm words for this calm thread.

jdlea · 10-03-2004, 10:35 PM

You all say that it's not time to panic. I say, when is? 1-4, 1-5? They're going to lose to the Ravens if they play anything like this. I don't think we'll get any better on a Ray Lewis lead team. So, please, enlighten me. When can we finally realize that Brunell has lost it? There's a reason he doesn't start in Jacksonville anymore...the same reason he shouldn't start here.

skinsguy · 10-03-2004, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlea

You all say that it's not time to panic. I say, when is? When can we finally realize that Brunell has lost it?

Panic when Joe Gibbs decides that he wasn't cut out to coach....(not gonna happen!) Even if this season doesn't turn out to be the magic season of standards that all the critics say Gibbs has to reach in order to avoid being labeled "washed up" as a coach doesn't mean that Gibbs' return was in vein. If anything I've learned is a Redskins team coached by Joe Gibbs is a team that doesn't panic; a team that realizes that it might have to weed out some of the players who chose not to believe in the system to get the right players that want to be Redskins. Were you old enough to remember the season we had after we destroyed the Broncos in the SB? We went what....7-9? The next two years we went to 10-6 and the following year we were in the SB. Once Gibbs gets the right players (which I think there are some missing links) the skins will be back.

On the topic of Brunell..I saw nothing of his performance today that indicated that he's lost it. WRs and tightends (namely Walter Rasby) dropped catchable passes or couldn't get open. I mean if putting in Santa Ramsey will help matters then by all means...but he's not ready yet..

JWsleep · 10-03-2004, 10:57 PM

It's time to panic mid way through NEXT SEASON if things are still not working. I'm serious. This is what an 8-8/7-9, readjusting to the coaches, players, NFL-type season looks like. And, as was pointed out, the losses were by 6, 3, and 4 points. It sucks. I hate it. But that's how it is right now.

As for Brunnel, he plays until Ramsey is ready. And Gibbs decides when that is. The offense isn't clicking, but Brunnel didn't put the ball on the ground; Portis and Coles did. Remember, Ramsey threw three absolutely lame INTs in the 1-1/2 QUARTERS he was out there last time. I say give Brunnell gets until the bye week to turn it around.

The o-line is a work in progress. Did they give up any sacks this week (I don't remember, maybe there was 1?). Against Dallas, there were 5. So that's better. Look, it's not just empty talk that it takes time to get an o-line working together. ANd it takes time for an RB and a line to get going. Since the o-line is the heart of a Gibbs team, until they work it out, it's not going to be pretty. We should still have won these games. But let's not break up the team!

The time management stuff is all about learning the formations and calling the plays efficiently. Again, just the sort of stuff that takes time to learn to do right. Yeah, it kills me to see it. But it'll come. Complex offense+new personel+Gibb's getting used to play calling again= bad time outs. oy.

Dirtbag · 10-03-2004, 11:49 PM

I'm in favor of analyzing our disastrous 1-3 start "reasonably," but let's remember that after the game, Joe Gibbs called this situation "a horrible time to be going through." And he's exactly right. We have had a horrible start and the players had better shape up quick. As longtime Redskins fans know, Gibbs cannot STAND fumbles and penalties. That's what makes our play so puzzling--this doesn't look like a Gibbs team at all. Perhaps that will come only with time.

redwagonskins · 10-04-2004, 01:04 AM

Here's my postive input. This time last year the Pats were 2-2 getting drubbed by the Bills and Spurrierskins. They have since won 18 in a row, more wins than the Bills and the Skins have combined for a couple of years. Now, I'm not saying we're going to the SB but when we stop making simple mistakes that I believe are the result of a team adjusting to a new coach and a coach who hasn't been in Football for a decade, we will be a competetive team and a future playoff power. I think our D stands up with the Pats and I think our offense has more talent. We just need time to get it together.

bedlamVR · 10-04-2004, 01:34 AM

I have to say people are moaning saying we were better last year but that was year two in the Spurrier eara and yet with esentially the same line Ramsey was being pummeled on a weekly basis and we were setting records for the number of penelties in a game.

The question is what we have to do to change now . None of the games we have lost have been out of reach and it does seem that players are not totally buying into the Gibbs scheme or they are not quite on the same page.

Comments about our run blocking are justified as Jansen was the run blocker on the line and Samuels the better pass blocker but listening to Portis is the running game seems bland and predicable right now, something needs to be done to mix up the schemes and maybe subbing him more to get a change of pace from Betts or Rock when he is struggling.

The thing is I still have faith, we have seen worse, it is heart wrenchingly disapointing to see us loose a games like this but it was heart wrenchingly disapointing to see us loose to the cowboys in thier 1-15 season but it happens.

AnonEmouse · 10-04-2004, 02:20 AM

My heart says Arrggghhh!, my head says we're learning. Anyone in coaching knows that sometimes you can have the most talented team in the league, but until they work out the chemistry, it will take time and hard work to get it right.

I don't think anyone is playing badly, I just think many are playing within themselves (Portis, Brunnel, Coles, OL, Taylor). Sooner or later one or more will have a break out game, or even just one play, that will set the tone. Then we'll se improvement.

All I think Taylor needs is one devastating hit over the middle or a savvy INT (for a TD please). Coles needs a TD. Portis needs a 150 to 250 yard game (w/o/fumbles) and Brunnel needs to be able to rely on the running game.

Our total points diff. this year is -7. Anyone tell me what it was in Schotty and Spurriers first 4 games? I got a feeling it compares favourably. We haven't lost a game by more than a TD so far, and that says we are in it. And you have to be in it to win it. (Cliches off)

Shane · 10-04-2004, 02:46 AM

What makes this a horrible time for the Redskins and fans is that the expectations for the team were unrealistic. If you reset your expectations, things are different.

We have some real difficulties now. I actually think its kind of fun to see how we are going to adapt to the circumstances with the personnel we have. To me a successful season isn't in the win loss column but how you deal with adversity.

I will say this - winning Super Bowl 17 was a lot more fun because of the 0-5 the season before. Everyone could see how the team worked so hard to overcome the challenges and it meant a lot more than if we had just won won won without any problems.

We have the best coaching staff on Earth, and that isn't changed by the occasional mistake. We have a solid core of players who are a super foundation for us. I am so grateful that Joe Gibbs is back. We are on our way.

The wise man said, "Patience is all the strength a man needs."

10-03-2004, 09:24 PM	#4
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	A couple of our positives from last year were McCants and Rock. I'd like to see them a little more involved in the offense. I think they can be factored into the offense without significantly changing the philosophy of the offense. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

10-03-2004, 09:39 PM	#7
cpayne5 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,807	Charles Mann brought up something very interesting in the post game show today. He said that in all his years under Gibbs, they NEVER lost to the TB Bucs. The Bucs were terrible, but before every game against them, JG would talk to his team about how the Bucs weren't that bad and that they could be beaten by them. He said that they won all those games because every player on that team believed 100% in Gibbs and didn't believe the Bucs were a pushover. He said the guys went out there and gave 100% and PLAYED FOOTBALL. He then went on to say that this team is not believing 100% in JG yet and that they need to go out there and just do their jobs and play football. He said that the players who don't believe ('prima donas', I think he said) will be shipped out and that the ones that stay will become a great team. Just some calm words for this calm thread. __________________ "It's not about what you've done, but what's been done for you."

10-03-2004, 10:57 PM	#10
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 56 Posts: 4,719	It's time to panic mid way through NEXT SEASON if things are still not working. I'm serious. This is what an 8-8/7-9, readjusting to the coaches, players, NFL-type season looks like. And, as was pointed out, the losses were by 6, 3, and 4 points. It sucks. I hate it. But that's how it is right now. As for Brunnel, he plays until Ramsey is ready. And Gibbs decides when that is. The offense isn't clicking, but Brunnel didn't put the ball on the ground; Portis and Coles did. Remember, Ramsey threw three absolutely lame INTs in the 1-1/2 QUARTERS he was out there last time. I say give Brunnell gets until the bye week to turn it around. The o-line is a work in progress. Did they give up any sacks this week (I don't remember, maybe there was 1?). Against Dallas, there were 5. So that's better. Look, it's not just empty talk that it takes time to get an o-line working together. ANd it takes time for an RB and a line to get going. Since the o-line is the heart of a Gibbs team, until they work it out, it's not going to be pretty. We should still have won these games. But let's not break up the team! The time management stuff is all about learning the formations and calling the plays efficiently. Again, just the sort of stuff that takes time to learn to do right. Yeah, it kills me to see it. But it'll come. Complex offense+new personel+Gibb's getting used to play calling again= bad time outs. oy. __________________ Hail from Houston!

10-03-2004, 09:19 PM	#3
celts32 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hackettstown NJ Age: 54 Posts: 2,665	I think that I am one of the more levelheaded skins fans that post on this site. However, I have had it with Portis already. I can't take his fumbles anymore! A RB that fumbles is absolutely useless! Right now I can not stand him and I cringe whenever he touches the ball! They clearly would have won today without that fumble. A fumble on the first play of the second half is absolutely devastating. I think that he has been the biggest factor in 2 losses so far. Against NY he had one fumble returned for a TD and I think he fumbled on the criticle 1st possesion of the 3rd quarter. That's 2 fumbles to start the 3rd quarter. Your first pssession in the second half is arguably the most important of the game. SO not only is he fumbling but he is also picking the most inopportune time. I can't stand it. I wish they had a good enough backup so they could sit his ass on the bench!

10-03-2004, 09:26 PM	#5
Jamaican'Skin The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kingston, Jamaica Age: 38 Posts: 2,418	Now that I've cooled down, I think that the Offense needs to click. D gets tired after a while if they're on the field all day. I think once the O begins to click, we are going to be a very dangerous team.

10-03-2004, 10:35 PM	#8
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 41 Posts: 3,109	You all say that it's not time to panic. I say, when is? 1-4, 1-5? They're going to lose to the Ravens if they play anything like this. I don't think we'll get any better on a Ray Lewis lead team. So, please, enlighten me. When can we finally realize that Brunell has lost it? There's a reason he doesn't start in Jacksonville anymore...the same reason he shouldn't start here.

10-03-2004, 11:49 PM	#11
Dirtbag Special Teams Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 142	I'm in favor of analyzing our disastrous 1-3 start "reasonably," but let's remember that after the game, Joe Gibbs called this situation "a horrible time to be going through." And he's exactly right. We have had a horrible start and the players had better shape up quick. As longtime Redskins fans know, Gibbs cannot STAND fumbles and penalties. That's what makes our play so puzzling--this doesn't look like a Gibbs team at all. Perhaps that will come only with time.

10-04-2004, 01:04 AM	#12
redwagonskins Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 685	Here's my postive input. This time last year the Pats were 2-2 getting drubbed by the Bills and Spurrierskins. They have since won 18 in a row, more wins than the Bills and the Skins have combined for a couple of years. Now, I'm not saying we're going to the SB but when we stop making simple mistakes that I believe are the result of a team adjusting to a new coach and a coach who hasn't been in Football for a decade, we will be a competetive team and a future playoff power. I think our D stands up with the Pats and I think our offense has more talent. We just need time to get it together.

10-04-2004, 01:34 AM	#13
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	I have to say people are moaning saying we were better last year but that was year two in the Spurrier eara and yet with esentially the same line Ramsey was being pummeled on a weekly basis and we were setting records for the number of penelties in a game. The question is what we have to do to change now . None of the games we have lost have been out of reach and it does seem that players are not totally buying into the Gibbs scheme or they are not quite on the same page. Comments about our run blocking are justified as Jansen was the run blocker on the line and Samuels the better pass blocker but listening to Portis is the running game seems bland and predicable right now, something needs to be done to mix up the schemes and maybe subbing him more to get a change of pace from Betts or Rock when he is struggling. The thing is I still have faith, we have seen worse, it is heart wrenchingly disapointing to see us loose a games like this but it was heart wrenchingly disapointing to see us loose to the cowboys in thier 1-15 season but it happens.

10-04-2004, 02:20 AM	#14
AnonEmouse Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Age: 59 Posts: 2,643	My heart says Arrggghhh!, my head says we're learning. Anyone in coaching knows that sometimes you can have the most talented team in the league, but until they work out the chemistry, it will take time and hard work to get it right. I don't think anyone is playing badly, I just think many are playing within themselves (Portis, Brunnel, Coles, OL, Taylor). Sooner or later one or more will have a break out game, or even just one play, that will set the tone. Then we'll se improvement. All I think Taylor needs is one devastating hit over the middle or a savvy INT (for a TD please). Coles needs a TD. Portis needs a 150 to 250 yard game (w/o/fumbles) and Brunnel needs to be able to rely on the running game. Our total points diff. this year is -7. Anyone tell me what it was in Schotty and Spurriers first 4 games? I got a feeling it compares favourably. We haven't lost a game by more than a TD so far, and that says we are in it. And you have to be in it to win it. (Cliches off)

10-04-2004, 02:46 AM	#15
Shane Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 277	What makes this a horrible time for the Redskins and fans is that the expectations for the team were unrealistic. If you reset your expectations, things are different. We have some real difficulties now. I actually think its kind of fun to see how we are going to adapt to the circumstances with the personnel we have. To me a successful season isn't in the win loss column but how you deal with adversity. I will say this - winning Super Bowl 17 was a lot more fun because of the 0-5 the season before. Everyone could see how the team worked so hard to overcome the challenges and it meant a lot more than if we had just won won won without any problems. We have the best coaching staff on Earth, and that isn't changed by the occasional mistake. We have a solid core of players who are a super foundation for us. I am so grateful that Joe Gibbs is back. We are on our way. The wise man said, "Patience is all the strength a man needs."

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