Peter King on The Skins - Future Cap Trouble

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sounds like a typical Redskins offseason.

Yep. The sky is not falling, the world is not ending, the band is not breaking up.

In 2009 we could see a major shakeup, though I'll hold final judgment on that until I see what the Skins actually do in 2008.

Any renegotiations with Jason Campbell and/or Sean Taylor could obviously impact the numbers as well.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Sounds like a typical Redskins offseason.

Except we actually have most of our draft picks..

Typical annual media 'Redskins are in pending cap hell' blurb.. Remember how before the labor agreement we were going to have to field like 33 rookies or something foolish like that?

While silly things like consistently winning or making the playoffs in consecutive years seem to escape the Redskins braintrust, circumventing the salary cap is the one thing that we do better than anyone else in the NFL.

[Coff]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Typical annual media 'Redskins are in pending cap hell' blurb.. Remember how before the labor agreement we were going to have to field like 33 rookies or something foolish like that?

I agree Paintrain. We hear this every year, and then somehow the Skins get out of it. Not saying that I approve of the FO policy and philosophy (I don't, I think they're idiots for the most part), but as far as managing the salary cap, this is one area where the front office knows what it is doing.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I'm going to list the ways to get the cap number down. You can debate the merit of making certain moves on this list, but if we don't cut a certain player, you can bet we'd restructure them, which would also save some money.

Expected Roster Cuts:
Phillip Daniels - $3.0 million saved
Mark Brunell - $3.4 million saved
Total Savings for Cuts: $6.4 million

Keeping These Players, Restructuring 2008 Base Salary, Prorating over Remaining life of Contract:
Randy Thomas - $4.3 million saved
Clinton Portis - $3.8 million saved
Jon Jansen - $3.7 million saved
Chris Samuels - $3.4 million saved
Cornelius Griffin - $2.8 million saved
Santana Moss - $2.4 million saved
Casey Rabach - $1.8 million saved
Total Salary Restructure Savings: $22.2 million

Keeping These Players, Restructuring 2008 Roster Bonuses, Prorating over Remaining life of Contract:
Ladell Betts - $1.7 million saved
Clinton Portis - $0.4 million saved
Andre Carter - $1.9 million saved
Antwaan Randle-El - $1.2 million saved
Total Bonus Restructure Savings: $5.2 million

So I see ways to reduce our 2008 cap number by about $34 million. So do I think armageddon is coming next year? NO.

But I wouldn't go making ALL of the moves I listed above, either. We're starting to push a little too much into the future. And if we get rid of Brandon Lloyd, that move will eat up some more space.

Bottom line, we won't have to dismantle the team, but we won't have lots of flexibility, either. We'll need to draft very well.

Great analysis Schneed - I'm feeling a little better. I hope that we restructure well to keep the core group together for another year - this team will make some noise next year. The draft will be key to replacing guys like Daniels (assuming he's cut) and building depth for an aging O-line.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I'm going to list the ways to get the cap number down. You can debate the merit of making certain moves on this list, but if we don't cut a certain player, you can bet we'd restructure them, which would also save some money.

Expected Roster Cuts:
Phillip Daniels - $3.0 million saved
Mark Brunell - $3.4 million saved
Total Savings for Cuts: $6.4 million

Keeping These Players, Restructuring 2008 Base Salary, Prorating over Remaining life of Contract:
Randy Thomas - $4.3 million saved
Clinton Portis - $3.8 million saved
Jon Jansen - $3.7 million saved
Chris Samuels - $3.4 million saved
Cornelius Griffin - $2.8 million saved
Santana Moss - $2.4 million saved
Casey Rabach - $1.8 million saved
Total Salary Restructure Savings: $22.2 million

Keeping These Players, Restructuring 2008 Roster Bonuses, Prorating over Remaining life of Contract:
Ladell Betts - $1.7 million saved
Clinton Portis - $0.4 million saved
Andre Carter - $1.9 million saved
Antwaan Randle-El - $1.2 million saved
Total Bonus Restructure Savings: $5.2 million

So I see ways to reduce our 2008 cap number by about $34 million. So do I think armageddon is coming next year? NO.

But I wouldn't go making ALL of the moves I listed above, either. We're starting to push a little too much into the future. And if we get rid of Brandon Lloyd, that move will eat up some more space.

Bottom line, we won't have to dismantle the team, but we won't have lots of flexibility, either. We'll need to draft very well.

Very good post. Every year somebody always says that The Redskins are in cap hell. And every year they re-structure the cap and go out and sign guys.

Peter King is a tool. I'll never ever forget when Old Ball Coach got hired and King said Danny Weurfel (sp?) was going to be the next Kurt Warner. I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Very good post. Every year somebody always says that The Redskins are in cap hell. And every year they re-structure the cap and go out and sign guys.

Peter King is a tool. I'll never ever forget when Old Ball Coach got hired and King said Danny Weurfel (sp?) was going to be the next Kurt Warner. I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

One thing about writers... they're not trained as accountants or financial analysts. Peter King's a pretty smart guy and I actually have a lot of respect for him, but in the end, he's trained to write.

That's why it's so hard to find any writers out there who actually understand the cap. If any of them make any comments on the Skins cap situation, it's always wise to take it with a grain of salt.

Hit up the Warpath's cap page, because CC has all the info right there. I'll be here to analyze it and such. La Canfora usually has valid information, but that's because he's referencing someone (an accountant) who keeps the numbers very tightly. If you see La Canfora starting to muse about what the Skins could do, take it with a grain. If you see him stating what the numbers look like, then that piece is reliable.

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I'm going to list the ways to get the cap number down. You can debate the merit of making certain moves on this list, but if we don't cut a certain player, you can bet we'd restructure them, which would also save some money.

Expected Roster Cuts:
Phillip Daniels - $3.0 million saved
Mark Brunell - $3.4 million saved
Total Savings for Cuts: $6.4 million

Keeping These Players, Restructuring 2008 Base Salary, Prorating over Remaining life of Contract:
Randy Thomas - $4.3 million saved
Clinton Portis - $3.8 million saved
Jon Jansen - $3.7 million saved
Chris Samuels - $3.4 million saved
Cornelius Griffin - $2.8 million saved
Santana Moss - $2.4 million saved
Casey Rabach - $1.8 million saved
Total Salary Restructure Savings: $22.2 million

Keeping These Players, Restructuring 2008 Roster Bonuses, Prorating over Remaining life of Contract:
Ladell Betts - $1.7 million saved
Clinton Portis - $0.4 million saved
Andre Carter - $1.9 million saved
Antwaan Randle-El - $1.2 million saved
Total Bonus Restructure Savings: $5.2 million

So I see ways to reduce our 2008 cap number by about $34 million. So do I think armageddon is coming next year? NO.

But I wouldn't go making ALL of the moves I listed above, either. We're starting to push a little too much into the future. And if we get rid of Brandon Lloyd, that move will eat up some more space.

Bottom line, we won't have to dismantle the team, but we won't have lots of flexibility, either. We'll need to draft very well.

Schneed - thanks for the update.

One question here though - I heard on the radio that Brandon Llyod's 2008 roster bonus of $1.5 million is due on March 1, 2008. I know that cutting Llyod post June 1st will spread the cap hit over 2 seasons instead of taking the entire $7.1 million all in 2008. My question is if you are going to cut the guy is the cap spread more important than giving him $1.5 million? I know the Danny is rich, but if you are going to cut him anyway that is a lot of money to just give to a guy who will be gone anyway. Why not just take your lumps and get it all overwith like they did with Arch Deluxe?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Bill B

Schneed - thanks for the update.

One question here though - I heard on the radio that Brandon Llyod's 2008 roster bonus of $1.5 million is due on March 1, 2008. I know that cutting Llyod post June 1st will spread the cap hit over 2 seasons instead of taking the entire $7.1 million all in 2008. My question is if you are going to cut the guy is the cap spread more important than giving him $1.5 million? I know the Danny is rich, but if you are going to cut him anyway that is a lot of money to just give to a guy who will be gone anyway. Why not just take your lumps and get it all overwith like they did with Arch Deluxe?

Additionally, if he is cut prior to March 1, 2008 under the new June 1 cut rule, do we still have to pay the roster bonus?

Or since March 1 is the first day of the league year, we pretty much have to pay this roster bonus...don't we.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Additionally, if he is cut prior to March 1, 2008 under the new June 1 cut rule, do we still have to pay the roster bonus?

Or since March 1 is the first day of the league year, we pretty much have to pay this roster bonus...don't we.

Yeah I think we'd have to pay the roster bonus.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Bill B

Schneed - thanks for the update.

One question here though - I heard on the radio that Brandon Llyod's 2008 roster bonus of $1.5 million is due on March 1, 2008. I know that cutting Llyod post June 1st will spread the cap hit over 2 seasons instead of taking the entire $7.1 million all in 2008. My question is if you are going to cut the guy is the cap spread more important than giving him $1.5 million? I know the Danny is rich, but if you are going to cut him anyway that is a lot of money to just give to a guy who will be gone anyway. Why not just take your lumps and get it all overwith like they did with Arch Deluxe?

Given the choice between the two, I would be a proponent of sending him packing before March 1, and biting the bullet on his cap hit. This would avoid the $1.5 million bonus payment you're referring to. When you think about it, if the Skins spread Lloyd's dead money over two seasons, they'll just end up restructuring fewer players in '08. If they take the entire hit in 2008, they will be forced to restructure more guys in '08. So you might as well just get him off the books.

But the ideal situation would be to find a taker for Lloyd, kind of like we did with Arch. With Arch, we convinced the Bears to take a $5 million bonus off our hands, which significantly dropped the cap hit we needed to take.

Of course at this point it may be tough to convince a team that Lloyd is worth giving a $1.5 million signing bonus to, but hopefully somebody sees him as an under-utilized non-bum.

[MTK]

Brunell will probably retire.

[Schneed10]

We could save $1.6 million by cutting Griffin. This would take him off our books for the future.

Or we could save $2.8 million by restructuring him. This would not only keep him on our books for the future, but would increase the cap charges in that year. So definitely a catch 22 with him.

On Daniels, he's probably a goner. There's opportunity to save $3.0 million by cutting him. Or save $1.4 million by restructuring him.

[#56fanatic]

This is the same stuff we get into every year. I have been singing this song the last couple of seasons with the way we sign contracts and convert salary to bonuses. Every time they restructure the deals, the money is pushed to the future. Eventually it comes time to pay up. I think they should start taking some hits now in places we can and start drafting and making wiser decisions on FA market. I saw this fact also, we are over that much in the cap with only 40+ players signed.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

This is the same stuff we get into every year. I have been singing this song the last couple of seasons with the way we sign contracts and convert salary to bonuses. Every time they restructure the deals, the money is pushed to the future. Eventually it comes time to pay up. I think they should start taking some hits now in places we can and start drafting and making wiser decisions on FA market. I saw this fact also, we are over that much in the cap with only 40+ players signed.

You and I have butted heads on this before, and I'm not going to get into a big thing again. You are right in that the general principle of restructuring players pushes money off into the future. But if you pick and choose which players you do that for, plus occasionally clear a disappointing player off your books, plus take into account the rising cap limit, you can manage your cap number without coming up against the cap hell. It's not smart to restructure ALL of your players, that's too much pushed into the future. It's also not smart to restructure NONE of your players, because then we'd have to cut a bunch of guys this year. The best approach lies in the middle, the Goldilocks syndrome, just right.

Remember, we shed a bunch of money from the awful Archuleta contract, clearing him off our books this year. Remember, the cap limit is going up by about $8 million in 2008. We weren't in dire straits last year like everyone said, and we won't be in 2008 either.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

You and I have butted heads on this before, and I'm not going to get into a big thing again. You are right in that the general principle of restructuring players pushes money off into the future. But if you pick and choose which players you do that for, plus occasionally clear a disappointing player off your books, plus take into account the rising cap limit, you can manage your cap number without coming up against the cap hell. It's not smart to restructure ALL of your players, that's too much pushed into the future. It's also not smart to restructure NONE of your players, because then we'd have to cut a bunch of guys this year. The best approach lies in the middle, the Goldilocks syndrome, just right.

Remember, we shed a bunch of money from the awful Archuleta contract, clearing him off our books this year. Remember, the cap limit is going up by about $8 million in 2008. We weren't in dire straits last year like everyone said, and we won't be in 2008 either.

Here comes the cap hell folks, LOL here we go again