Players cooling to Zorn

[Hog1]

Players cooling to Zorn?
BSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBS BSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBS BSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBS BSBSBSBSBSPAULISDEADBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBS BSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBS BSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSBSFoolish sensationalist reporting from questionable source.......

[joethiesmanfan]

Lack of execution can also come from flawed schemes. Players can't execute when a linebacker and safety are overloading oneside of the line. A play call must be changed in that instance. The Ravens game is the first game I saw Zorn counteract this. This has been going on since the Pittsburgh game. I think he is a good coach just a first year coach is all.

[maroonandblack30]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Lack of execution can also come from flawed schemes. Players can't execute when a linebacker and safety are overloading oneside of the line. A play call must be changed in that instance. The Ravens game is the first game I saw Zorn counteract this. This has been going on since the Pittsburgh game. I think he is a good coach just a first year coach is all.

Great points I totally agree

[Spence]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Lack of execution can also come from flawed schemes. Players can't execute when a linebacker and safety are overloading oneside of the line. A play call must be changed in that instance. The Ravens game is the first game I saw Zorn counteract this. This has been going on since the Pittsburgh game. I think he is a good coach just a first year coach is all.

Precisely. It's not Clinton Portis' fault that Zorn and Bugel decided it would be a good idea to match Geisinger one-on-one with Terrell Suggs.

I have no problem with coaches publicly criticizing players -- so long as they treat themselves and the entire coaching staff similarly. Either everyone gets criticized publicly [when they deserve it] or you go with the "we all lose together" mantra of Joe Gibbs. Publicly criticizing the players is only acceptable if coaches get the same.

And anyone who thinks the coaching doesn't deserve a decent share of the blame for the team's current problems isn't watching the games.

[JWsleep]

I agree with Matty--find me a losing team that doesn't have this kind of issue. Find me a winning team that does.

Seems to me Zorn takes plenty of responsibility, but he certainly calls out players as well. Very different from Gibbs, who stuck to the "they played their guts out, I take the blame" line. This is growing pains. Zorn will get better at it, and players will either come around or pack their bags.

(All bets are off, of course, if Danny and Vinny meddle. And no one would be surprised if they do.)

[celts32]

PFT is the NFL version of the National Enquirer. Who knows if Zorn lost the locker room but you will never determine that by reading PFT's fictional depictions.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by celts32

PFT is the NFL version of the National Enquirer. Who knows if Zorn lost the locker room but you will never determine that by reading PFT's fictional depictions.

That's a good point. This report is plausible, but it must still be regarded warily, considering the source.

[Redskin Jim]

Like somebody already stated, in a winning organization there is no finger pointing, a losing team, well you know. Anyway, the point I'd like to make is this : the finger I'd like to point is at the management. They are responsible for keeping an overaged line on both sides of the ball that was sufficient for the first half of the season, but because of their collective age, is now worn down, broken down and completly ineffective. That is where the lack of execution originates. No blocking against the pass rush, no holes for the running game, and no pass rush on defense. It has become a total breakdown in the trenches, where the game is won and lost. So in my oppinion, (and yes I know that it does not count for much), the blame does not lie with Zorn, Campbell, Portis, it lies with Vinny and Danny. I just hope they recognize and correct this problem in the offseason.

[The Goat]

Matty's right about what happens in losing situations. The real test comes this weekend, and not just whether we win but how we win and players' attitude. We need a solid win, period. And it's ok if there's some friction between the HC and the players. Animosity is bad altogether, but a little friction that challenges the players to "prove the asshole wrong" and really go out and execute is a good thing. I think in a way it's what we've seen in NY, Coughlin isn't anyone's friend, but u bet your ass the players have a heap of respect for the iron-willed man at the head of the ship. Time will tell what kind of relationship/coaching style Zorn develops over the group.

The bigger, scarier issue like many have said is whether Danny and Vinny meddle in all this business. Goddamnit if they fire Zorn at the end of the season I hope they can't even find a replacement (because nobody wants to work for them).

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Matty's right about what happens in losing situations. The real test comes this weekend, and not just whether we win but how we win and players' attitude. We need a solid win, period. And it's ok if there's some friction between the HC and the players. Animosity is bad altogether, but a little friction that challenges the players to "prove the asshole wrong" and really go out and execute is a good thing. I think in a way it's what we've seen in NY, Coughlin isn't anyone's friend, but u bet your ass the players have a heap of respect for the iron-willed man at the head of the ship. Time will tell what kind of relationship/coaching style Zorn develops over the group.

The bigger, scarier issue like many have said is whether Danny and Vinny meddle in all this business. Goddamnit if they fire Zorn at the end of the season I hope they can't even find a replacement (because nobody wants to work for them).

They won't fire a rookie HC. Only HC they shitcanned after one year was Marty and that was purely about power. Now if Zorn fails next year and his offense looks just as bad, then he better pack his bags, but I doubt Snyder is going to pull the plug after this season is over. Zorn is safe also, for if Snyder fires Zorn he will look like an ass, and his detractors who criticized him for hiring Zorn will come out looking like a rose. Only posible way Zorn gets fired is if Cowher begs for the job.

[Redskin Jim]

Maybe, I'm crazy?

[Redskin Jim]

I agree with you goat on keeping Zorn. I also believe that I would rather have a hard nosed coach like Caughlin, than a buddy buddy softy like Grimmace Phillips in Dalass..

[TheSmurfs22]

Win teams do not win it is easy to start pointing fingers intead of looking inward and trying to fix the problems.

Zorn deserves a chance. If the Skins let him go after the first year then they are in my opinion idiots. We will never be an elite team or a consistent winner if we do not start building some consistency within the organization.

[sportscurmudgeon]

It's interesting that Pro Football Talk is dismissed around here as a know-nothing site every time they say something critical about the Redskins - - but when they something positive or laudatory, then they bring the gospel.

Maybe - - just maybe - - there are indeed some significant flaws in the way this team is run in addition to the flaws in the way the team is contructed and the way the team is coached and the way the team has played the last month and a half.

On another point, someone said earlier that in the Gibbs 2.0 regime, there was solid coaching authority and this kind of stuff never happened then. Excuse me...

Did I imagine the incredible brouhaha involving LaVar Arrington and the coaching staff on minor matters such as should he play and should he freelance when he plays?

Was I the only one who heard some players questioning Mark Brunell as the starting QB?

Didn't Al Saunders admit that he called a play thinking Portis was in the game but that Portis had taken himself out and Saunders didn't know about it?

Here is something Redskins fans have to live with. The Redskins are not a highly disciplined organization in just about any facet of the management structure. The only thing that is certain is that Danny Boy will fire people whenever he feels like firing them. Other than that ...

This kind of story - - if it indeed has a source inside the Redskins - - is exactly the kind of story that the Skins plant as part of their process for firing a coach or and exec or a player. Keep your eyes and ears open; if you read a couple more of these stories unrelated to this Portis/Zorn spat, then be ready to watch Jim Zorn get fired unless he wins at least one playoff game.

That is the pattern of the past. And the best predictor of future behavior is - - past behavior.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

It's interesting that Pro Football Talk is dismissed around here as a know-nothing site every time they say something critical about the Redskins - - but when they something positive or laudatory, then they bring the gospel.

Not true. People are consistenly skeptical of PFT here, regardless of the news