blow it up

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by redsk1

No coach is really going to make much of a difference unless we change some FO fundamentals.

So, i'm changing the FO, but I don't see it.

With Cowher we get both, considering that one of the conditions that Cowher has stated for taking a job is that he wants total control over personnel.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

With Cowher we get both, considering that one of the conditions that Cowher has stated for taking a job is that he wants total control over personnel.

What makes you think that Cowher is an upgrade in the front office over Cerrato? Outside of Andy Reid, is there any situation where having a coach also handle personnel duties has acutally worked?

[djnemo65]

Not only is does this thread have special needs (retarded is no longer the preferred nomenclature) but it is GAY. As in it goes on dates with other men.

People have made this argument before in the past when things haven't been going well and I've never understood how it makes more sense to cut our good players and draft their replacements when we can just keep them and draft their replacements.

The one good thing about the Redskins losing is that it's good for a laugh around here. The crazies come out of the basement...

[TheSmurfs22]

In all honesty didn't most of us think at the beginning of the year we would be a team that might not make the playoffs? Growing pains are going to happen no matter who you bring in.

[GTripp0012]

Though I will say this: Zorn's absolute refusal to run in short yardage is very reminiscent of Saunders.

Zorn was very successful running in short yardage earlier in the season. It wouldn't kill him to get back to it, but he does know the team better than I do.

[SouperMeister]

The biggest problem of the Snyder era is the lack of continuity with the exception of the Gibbs 2.0 years. Blowing it up again just sets us back another year where we start with new system, and presumably many new players. We have some nice pieces to build upon, but are woefully lacking on both the O and D lines. As disappointed as I am, I want to see Zorn remain, and the team continue to learn how to run the WCO, which typically takes 2-3 years before everyone is on the same page and running like clockwork. Blowing it up now would be the immature, pre-Gibbs approach that Snyder took nearly every season. Continuity is key, regardless of how we feel today.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

The biggest problem of the Snyder era is the lack of continuity with the exception of the Gibbs 2.0 years. Blowing it up again just sets us back another year where we start with new system, and presumably many new players. We have some nice pieces to build upon, but are woefully lacking on both the O and D lines. As disappointed as I am, I want to see Zorn remain, and the team continue to learn how to run the WCO, which typically takes 2-3 years before everyone is on the same page and running like clockwork. Blowing it up now would be the immature, pre-Gibbs approach that Snyder took nearly every season. Continuity is key, regardless of how we feel today.

Good post. I completely agree with everything you said. Patience can be hard but the rewards can be great. Lets give it another year and see the improvements before we give up.

[YellowBirdy]

I have to say to all those who say they don’t want a major restructure of this team that I really admire your optimism. We have just watched our team loose to one of the worst teams in the NFL, after a series of other really disappointing loses and all you think we need to do is wait, to give it some time and anybody who disagrees with this insightful remedy is described as retarded. I think you guys need a reality check. This team is going backwards very quickly and has been for weeks.

A lot of you Zorn fans go on about this being Zorn’s rookie year as a HC and that 8-8 or even 7-9 would be a great result. I would say this could be right under different circumstances but not under these circumstances.

Scenario 1 – New HC comes in to a disunited franchise that hasn’t been in the play offs for years and has no continuity with players or coaching staff. He gets off to a really bad start and at the mid way point of the season he is 1-7. But what he has done during that time is pull the team and other coaches around him and get them to buy into him and his scheme. The second half of the season we go 6-2, the team starts playing dynamic football and we are definitely heading in the right direction after a 7-9 season

Scenario 2 – New HC comes in to a franchise that has been to the playoffs twice in the last four years. He is following a HOF coach who managed to establish discipline throughout the franchise and he inherits pretty much the whole of the last year’s playoff team and a bunch of coaches that are (used to be at least) thought of as talented. This team has an elite Defence and a running game that is respected throughout the league. He is told that all he has to do is bring in an updated passing game and we are ready to take the next step. The new HC gets off to a really hot start and by midway he is 6-2. Then however the other teams catch on to his playbook. Has he got a plan B, can he change it around, has he got any fresh ideas. Sadly no and for the remainder of the season we go 1-7. He doesn’t recognise that this run of losses has anything to do with him and his dreadful and predictable play calling. Instead he starts to blame his players for poor execution. As the slide in results gets worse, in an effort to demonstrate his authority and to shift the blame for the loses he starts benching franchise players who are to banged up to practice during the week. Due to this he starts to loose the dressing room and so by the end of the year we have a disunited team that is heading into the future with a very bleak outlook for returning to the playoffs anytime soon after a 7-9 season.

Two very different ways to get to the same point

[skinsfan1987]

It's time for this team to get younger on both sides of the ball period. if it means starting colt brennan next year with a young offensive line and wide receivers, then do it.

[Joe Kidd]

Players better wake the F up these last 2 games and realize they're playing for their jobs for next year. I don't care that Rogers has been pretty good in coverage this year, his inability to come up with INTs is hurting us, and I definitely would not want to offer this guy big money when his deal is up. We need playmakers on D, we need guys that can get after the passer, and guys that can protect our own damn passer.

[Rock Your Face]

A couple of points:

1) I am not as down or as up on JC as some people, but to say you would possibly rather have him then Big Ben or Palmer (when healthy) is an ignorant, at best, statement.

2) The 'Skins do not have above average offensive weapons. They have one truly good, maybe great, receiver, a great running back, and a good to great TE, none of which really matters b/c the o-line is a revolving door. Add to this the rest of the receivers who would not be 3rd receivers on good teams, and the result is what you see.

3) At 6-2, everyone was optimistic, and rightfully so, sadly though, if you looked at the 'Skins' point differential through those games it was only +20. A stat like that generally does not lie, and points more to a .500 team (what the 'Skins are right now) than a 10 or 11 win team (which they will obviously not be). Remembering back to '05, when the team had to go 5-0 to make the playoffs, things looked bleak, but I do remember one prognosticator pointing to the 'Skins' point differential before that run (inflated to a large degree by the blowout of the 49ers that year) as showing that the 'Skins were primed for playoff push. The point is this, even though that was one game, it showed the potential for offensive explosion, which we later saw; this year, the 'Skins had none of those games, even though they played a slew of teams that were probably just as bad as the '05 Niners.

4) I have thought about this a lot today, and I think Zorn should get one more season. That being said, I fully understand why some people want him gone. This team has regressed after the hot start. As pointed out above, this is not a case of team seeming to turn the corner after a slow start w/ a rookie head coach. The main fears coming into this season about Zorn were the lack of play-calling experience and the lack of game day decision making. Both fears have been proven true, and today showed both. The decision to run Sellars 2 straight times, at least once w/ a 3 tight end set, (so that's why we drafted Fred Davis!) defies belief. As a side note, if I were Zorn, I would talk to Sellars and say "Mike, you're great at hurdling people at midfield, but we're not paying you to jump at the goal line, run over someone damn it." Then to challenge the fumble in a tight game, where timeouts are precious was asinine, not to mention that heinous sequence after the long Rock run back at the end of the game. Throw it in the damn end zone 3 straight plays or just kick a field goal on first down.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Rock Your Face

1) I am not as down or as up on JC as some people, but to say you would possibly rather have him then Big Ben or Palmer (when healthy) is an ignorant, at best, statement.

Ignorant, though, would imply that I can't back it up because I'm uninformed, which is not true. I'm bullish on Campbell, but Palmer was and Ben is having a horrific year with weak offensive lines. Campbell's OL is a little bit better, and he has continued to develop.

Roethlisberger and Palmer have both enjoyed better seasons than Campbell's best year, obviously, but their 2008s have been worse than Campbell's worst season (2006). Given that Campbell should continue to develop, I don't think it's a stretch at all to say he's better than those guys. I don't know how good Palmer can be in the future, but it's been two years since we were talking about him in the elite category, and if he can't reach those levels again, I'm confident that JC will have a better career than Palmer will.

[Joe Kidd]

It's really dumb to think that this is somehow Campbell's fault. Right now we're getting mediocre play from all over, the line, the receivers, the backs, and that all impacts his game. QBs and head coaches always get too much blame when things are going bad, and too much credit when things are going well. There's much more under the surface than how Campbell is playing, and under the circumstances I don't think he's playing that bad. To give up on him now after one year in this offense is jumping the gun. We need consistency and changing QB again is not going to help us with that.

[lemelgibson]

Zorn is the isssue, he can not adjust for some reason. He has not adjusted his scheme yet. The nfl caught up with what we were doing and Zorn has not done anything different. Our defense keeps adjusting every game. Bengals scored 17 points early, 3 points after that. Zorn needs to take a lesson from Blache on adjusting.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by lemelgibson

Zorn is the isssue, he can not adjust for some reason. He has not adjusted his scheme yet. The nfl caught up with what we were doing and Zorn has not done anything different. Our defense keeps adjusting every game. Bengals scored 17 points early, 3 points after that. Zorn needs to take a lesson from Blache on adjusting.

Zorn is A issue. But not THE issue. THE issue is Snyderrato. Taking burgundy and gold glasses off and taking a real hard look at this roster, it just way too short on real talent. We are not even close to being in the same league with teams like Pittsburgh, Indy, Giants, Titans, etc...just not close.