How would you rank him?

SmootSmack · 02-10-2005, 02:35 PM

should we be comparing Smoot to all corners or just those on the market right now?

JoeRedskin · 02-10-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

We all agree that he's asking for to much money. This is where the Redskins run into trouble all the time. They give other teams players above market deals and then they expect their own players to stay for market or below market deals. When a loyal current Redskin sees outsiders handed the keys to the cookie jar they end up slighted if they are not treated in the same manner. In pro sports money equals love and respect. I think if the Redskins start treating all free agents with a level hand no matter what jersey they wore last year they will find negotiations easier in the future.

DING DING DING - I believe we have a winner! I can't remember how many times I have heard Skins FA's say "I just wanted to be treated like the guys they bring in from other teams" (Jansen pops to mind).

Give Smoot a ride in Redskin 1, hell let him fly the damn thing and stop overpaying for other teams FA's (though I think they did a better job of that last year - other than Brunnell).

As for Smoot's ranking - there are 64 starting corners in the league, I think he is in the 20-30 range myself. Good 2nd corner but not a true number 1. Just don't think he covers well enough to match up against the top receiver week in and week out.

Monksdown · 02-10-2005, 02:46 PM

When Champ was here, they were a hell of duo. Thats why Joe let Gregg Williams pick Sean Taylor instead of Winslow last year. Because he sold champ to improve the offense with Portis. He is an excellent number 2. And a slightly above average 1. With help from the safeties he is pretty good. He's just so small to get involved consistently in the outside run defense. He did do better this year though.

MTK · 02-10-2005, 02:45 PM

Guys, that's the name of the free agency game, you have to overpay to lure players away.

There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent.

celts32 · 02-10-2005, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Guys, that's the name of the free agency game, you have to overpay to lure players away.

There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent.

You do have to overpay to some extent but come on, no one rings the cash register like the Redskins. Coles & Portis deals come to mind of the current players. They so badly overpaid those guys. They made Portis the highest paid RB in the league and gave Coles like the biggest signing bonus in WR history. Neither one is the top player at his position. Sometimes it's like they bid against themselves. I know free agency is all about overpaying, but the Redskins have taken it to a new level and the current players know it and expect to get the same treatment.

MTK · 02-10-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

You do have to overpay to some extent but come on, no one rings the cash register like the Redskins. Coles & Portis deals come to mind of the current players. They so badly overpaid those guys. They made Portis the highest paid RB in the league and gave Coles like the biggest signing bonus in WR history. Neither one is the top player at his position. Sometimes it's like they bid against themselves. I know free agency is all about overpaying, but the Redskins have taken it to a new level and the current players know it and expect to get the same treatment.

True, but in Coles' case since he was a restricted free agent they had to overpay. As for Portis I think the jury is still out as to whether or not we overpaid, if he blows up for 1500+ yards next year and double digit TD's I for one won't be complaining.

FRPLG · 02-10-2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

You do have to overpay to some extent but come on, no one rings the cash register like the Redskins. Coles & Portis deals come to mind of the current players. They so badly overpaid those guys. They made Portis the highest paid RB in the league and gave Coles like the biggest signing bonus in WR history. Neither one is the top player at his position. Sometimes it's like they bid against themselves. I know free agency is all about overpaying, but the Redskins have taken it to a new level and the current players know it and expect to get the same treatment.

Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.

SmootSmack · 02-10-2005, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.

Exactly! This is why the argument some people make of "can you believe the Redskins gave Trotter a better deal than Ray Lewis' is a bit flawed....it's all in the timing"

sportscurmudgeon · 02-10-2005, 04:39 PM

Matty:

You said:

There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent.

Problem is the records that the Pats and Steelers - and the Eagels too - amass with their implementation of this strategy compared to Danny Boy and his Front Office mavens.

sportscurmudgeon · 02-10-2005, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

Exactly! This is why the argument some people make of "can you believe the Redskins gave Trotter a better deal than Ray Lewis' is a bit flawed....it's all in the timing"

smootsmack:

I am the one who usually points out that the Skins paid more for Trotter when they signed him than Ray Lewis was making at the time and I still can't believe it. Despite the contribution Trotter made to the Eagles this year, he is NOT NOW and NOT THEN nor will he EVER BE comparable as a LB to Ray Lewis or to several other MLBs in the league. So, to pay him that kind of money WAS dunb and would STILL BE dumb tocay or tomorrow. Remember, Trotter is a free agent again this year unless the Eagles have an option clause in his contract because he only took a one-year deal in Philly. What should the Skins consider paying for him this time?

celts32 · 02-10-2005, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.

What you say is true and you can make that argument on the Portis deal, but the Coles deal was just silly. It was a league wide joke what we paid him. I remember being embarrassed about it when someone would ask me what they are doing. The excuse about having to outbid the Jets only holds water to a certain extent. They passed that extent by about 10 million dollars. And I am sure that contract gets thrown in theri face every time they try and do a deal with a current player.

I only used Portis's deal as an example becasue they did set the market with the deal, but it was a little more understandable given his age and the seasons he had put up in Denver.

FRPLG · 02-10-2005, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by celts32

What you say is true and you can make that argument on the Portis deal, but the Coles deal was just silly. It was a league wide joke what we paid him. I remember being embarrassed about it when someone would ask me what they are doing. The excuse about having to outbid the Jets only holds water to a certain extent. They passed that extent by about 10 million dollars. And I am sure that contract gets thrown in theri face every time they try and do a deal with a current player.

I only used Portis's deal as an example becasue they did set the market with the deal, but it was a little more understandable given his age and the seasons he had put up in Denver.

Ummm...actually no. The Coles deal was constructed so that the Jets could not match it. To simply offer more would have meant that the Jets would have matched instead they structured a deal that fiscally impossible for the Jets to match. It's not like the Skins just arbitrarily decided to pay him that much more for no good reason.

celts32 · 02-10-2005, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Matty's right you have to overpay guys to get them...
This whole deal about being the highest paid running back is silly. Where a guy falls on the salary ladder has less to do with talent and more to do with timing. Portis is the highest paid RB not because he is the best RB in the league(which he may be anyways...but thats beside the point) but because he is the last big time RB to make a deal. It's guranteed that the next big time RB who makes gets a deal will be paid more. It's just the way it works. Don't equate him being the highest paid with meaning he should be the best(which is ridiculously subjective anyways). Equate it with being one of the top couple players who just happens to have the newest deal.

What you say is true and you can make that argument on the Portis deal, but the Coles deal was just silly. It was a league wide joke what we paid him. I remember being embarrassed about it when someone would ask me what they are doing. The excuse about having to outbid the Jets only holds water to a certain extent. They passed that extent by about 10 million dollars. And I am sure that contract gets thrown in theri face every time they try and do a deal with a current player.

I only used Portis's deal as an example becasue they did set the market with the deal, but it was a little more understandable given his age and the seasons he had put up in Denver.

TheMalcolmConnection · 02-10-2005, 02:53 PM

I wish we had players like Brady who just wanted to play for the love of the game and deal with the fact that even a MILLION dollars is more than a lot of people will earn in their lifetimes.

Gmanc711 · 02-10-2005, 02:57 PM

Smoot is just outside the top 10 in my opinion. Big C hit most of them, and I agree with just about all of them. I wish Smoot would stay here, but if he wants more money and can get it, more power to him. I'm deifntley not going to be mad at the FO if we dont get him back, because they have offered what I belive is a very fair offer, so if he declined, so be it. I am going to follow him very closley, because I'm extremley interested to see what he can get in FA; I personally dont feel he will get much more than he would have with our contract.

02-10-2005, 02:35 PM	#1
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	should we be comparing Smoot to all corners or just those on the market right now? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

02-10-2005, 04:39 PM	#9
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Matty: You said: There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent. Problem is the records that the Pats and Steelers - and the Eagels too - amass with their implementation of this strategy compared to Danny Boy and his Front Office mavens. __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

02-10-2005, 02:53 PM	#14
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,264	I wish we had players like Brady who just wanted to play for the love of the game and deal with the fact that even a MILLION dollars is more than a lot of people will earn in their lifetimes. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

02-10-2005, 02:57 PM	#15
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	Smoot is just outside the top 10 in my opinion. Big C hit most of them, and I agree with just about all of them. I wish Smoot would stay here, but if he wants more money and can get it, more power to him. I'm deifntley not going to be mad at the FO if we dont get him back, because they have offered what I belive is a very fair offer, so if he declined, so be it. I am going to follow him very closley, because I'm extremley interested to see what he can get in FA; I personally dont feel he will get much more than he would have with our contract. __________________ #21

02-10-2005, 02:46 PM	#3
Monksdown The Starter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Warrenton, Virginia Age: 45 Posts: 1,515	When Champ was here, they were a hell of duo. Thats why Joe let Gregg Williams pick Sean Taylor instead of Winslow last year. Because he sold champ to improve the offense with Portis. He is an excellent number 2. And a slightly above average 1. With help from the safeties he is pretty good. He's just so small to get involved consistently in the outside run defense. He did do better this year though.

02-10-2005, 02:45 PM	#4
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	Guys, that's the name of the free agency game, you have to overpay to lure players away. There are plenty of teams around the league that refuse to overpay for their own players, the Patriots with Milloy, the Steelers with too many players to keep track of and the Redskins to a similar extent.

How would you rank him?

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