The Tempered Expectations Thread

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

i'm just glad we true professionals running the team. that's all we can ask for at this point.

Exactly...funny how people dont mention the name Snyder in their complaining, he has proven to be one of two common denamenators in steady decline of this franchise and one of the worst owners in all of sports. Its ok to say it, by not it almost a defense to him. Dont understand it.

But Im thrilled at this point and like it was mentioned before above, "this change feels different" and I think Danny Boy has finally "got it": he knows nothing about football and building a championship team.

Bruce Allen is a class act, Im thrilled and actually proud. This is the best organizational move since hiring Joe Gibbs the first time. HTTR

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Exactly...funny how people dont mention the name Snyder in their complaining, he has proven to be one of two common denamenators in steady decline of this franchise and one of the worst owners in all of sports. Its ok to say it, by not it almost a defense to him. Dont understand it.

But Im thrilled at this point and like it was mentioned before above, "this change feels different" and I think Danny Boy has finally "got it": he knows nothing about football and building a championship team.

Bruce Allen is a class act, Im thrilled and actually proud. This is the best organizational move since hiring Joe Gibbs the first time. HTTR

Help me understand that statement. Correct me on my history if it's wrong. When Snyder bought the team in '99 we had records the previous 6 years of (1993) 4-12, (1994) 3-13, (1995) 6-10, (1996) 9-7, (1997) 8-7-1, (1998) 6-10. We had a record of 42-52-1 (.450) between the years after Gibbs retired and Snyder purchased the team. Since Snyder bought the team the winning percentage is .476. He's made the team the 2nd highest revenue grossing team in the world. He's tried, and failed miserably, to do anything his money can buy to improve the team and build a winner but sadly he's only brought us UP to the level of mediocre!

A lot of people act is if he took things over from Cooke and drove a Ferrari into a brick wall. Guys, we were already an IROC-Z T-top, he just tried to throw a spoiler kit onto it and sell it as a Ferrari.

Look, I am FAR from a Snyder apologist but I'm not a fan of hyperbole or media parrots either. [/rant]

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Help me understand that statement. Correct me on my history if it's wrong. When Snyder bought the team in '99 we had records the previous 6 years of (1993) 4-12, (1994) 3-13, (1995) 6-10, (1996) 9-7, (1997) 8-7-1, (1998) 6-10. We had a record of 42-52-1 (.450) between the years after Gibbs retired and Snyder purchased the team. Since Snyder bought the team the winning percentage is .476. He's made the team the 2nd highest revenue grossing team in the world. He's tried, and failed miserably, to do anything his money can buy to improve the team and build a winner but sadly he's only brought us UP to the level of mediocre!

A lot of people act is if he took things over from Cooke and drove a Ferrari into a brick wall. Guys, we were already an IROC-Z T-top, he just tried to throw a spoiler kit onto it and sell it as a Ferrari.

Look, I am FAR from a Snyder apologist but I'm not a fan of hyperbole or media parrots either. [/rant]

Nice post. Also, Snyder (it shouldn't be forgotten) has spent 10 years as the owner. He may not know much more about Xs and Os than when he bought the team-though I suspect he does, but he definitely has more knowledge of the NFL than any of us and than he did when he first bought the team.

But anyway, not a fan of hyperbole either.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Help me understand that statement. Correct me on my history if it's wrong. When Snyder bought the team in '99 we had records the previous 6 years of (1993) 4-12, (1994) 3-13, (1995) 6-10, (1996) 9-7, (1997) 8-7-1, (1998) 6-10. We had a record of 42-52-1 (.450) between the years after Gibbs retired and Snyder purchased the team. Since Snyder bought the team the winning percentage is .476. He's made the team the 2nd highest revenue grossing team in the world. He's tried, and failed miserably, to do anything his money can buy to improve the team and build a winner but sadly he's only brought us UP to the level of mediocre!

A lot of people act is if he took things over from Cooke and drove a Ferrari into a brick wall. Guys, we were already an IROC-Z T-top, he just tried to throw a spoiler kit onto it and sell it as a Ferrari.

Look, I am FAR from a Snyder apologist but I'm not a fan of hyperbole or media parrots either. [/rant]

Your history is right, Im not saying we were not having problems with coaching, players, etc...Im was refering to running of the organization. Yes Danny Boy is a great business man, 2nd highest revenue team...great for him. But his style, like you said has failed and no he shouldnt have any in personel decision he sucks at doing it. It doest work. In the last decade we have easily been the worst team in our division...thats not media saying it, its what Ive been watching for the last 10 years. Ill refer to your sig as well, Marty stating obviously it starts at the top. Thats not the media but a coach. This last year he and Vinny were pretty classless.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Help me understand that statement. Correct me on my history if it's wrong. When Snyder bought the team in '99 we had records the previous 6 years of (1993) 4-12, (1994) 3-13, (1995) 6-10, (1996) 9-7, (1997) 8-7-1, (1998) 6-10. We had a record of 42-52-1 (.450) between the years after Gibbs retired and Snyder purchased the team. Since Snyder bought the team the winning percentage is .476. He's made the team the 2nd highest revenue grossing team in the world. He's tried, and failed miserably, to do anything his money can buy to improve the team and build a winner but sadly he's only brought us UP to the level of mediocre!

A lot of people act is if he took things over from Cooke and drove a Ferrari into a brick wall. Guys, we were already an IROC-Z T-top, he just tried to throw a spoiler kit onto it and sell it as a Ferrari.

Look, I am FAR from a Snyder apologist but I'm not a fan of hyperbole or media parrots either. [/rant]

Paintrain:

Indeed the Redskins of the mid-90s were not very good. The John Kent Cooke years left a lot to be desired when compared to the Jack Kent Cooke years.

However, when Danny Boy bought the team in the midst of the 99 season, he bought a team that made the playoffs. The team was not great and was not destined to become a dynasty, but it was solid and won more games than it lost.

The next year, the Skins were over .500 when Danny Boy fired Norv Turner in the middle of the year and the issue that caused the flare-up was that Norv refused to put Jeff George in as the starting QB. Amazingly, when Terry Robiske took over as interim coach, he surveyed the scene and decided that Jeff George was just the guy to lead the Skins; how insightful of him.

Oh, that was the year that the recently acquired Deion Sanders talked about not knowing "Coach Rabinsky" very well. Lots of respect in that locker room for and from the new acquisitions to the team courtesy of the Boy Wonder.

Danny Boy is not nearly the worst owner in sports. But what he did in his first ten years of ownership here was to take a solid-but-hardly-great squad, tear it apart to add "marquee players" and put the fans in DC thru a decade of less than mediocre football.

The fact that the Redskins are the second highest grossing franchise in sports - - not sure if that is still true - - means exactly NOTHING regarding the product on the field.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Paintrain:

Indeed the Redskins of the mid-90s were not very good. The John Kent Cooke years left a lot to be desired when compared to the Jack Kent Cooke years.

However, when Danny Boy bought the team in the midst of the 99 season, he bought a team that made the playoffs. The team was not great and was not destined to become a dynasty, but it was solid and won more games than it lost.

The next year, the Skins were over .500 when Danny Boy fired Norv Turner in the middle of the year and the issue that caused the flare-up was that Norv refused to put Jeff George in as the starting QB. Amazingly, when Terry Robiske took over as interim coach, he surveyed the scene and decided that Jeff George was just the guy to lead the Skins; how insightful of him.

Oh, that was the year that the recently acquired Deion Sanders talked about not knowing "Coach Rabinsky" very well. Lots of respect in that locker room for and from the new acquisitions to the team courtesy of the Boy Wonder.

Danny Boy is not nearly the worst owner in sports. But what he did in his first ten years of ownership here was to take a solid-but-hardly-great squad, tear it apart to add "marquee players" and put the fans in DC thru a decade of less than mediocre football.

The fact that the Redskins are the second highest grossing franchise in sports - - not sure if that is still true - - means exactly NOTHING regarding the product on the field.

You won't hear a word of disagreement from me on anything you said. I was just wondering how one quantified the 'worst owner in all of sports.'

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

i'm just glad we true professionals running the team. that's all we can ask for at this point.

Shanahan was not my first choice of coaches and I fear that it will be difficult for us to win Super Bowls, etc. We did not become the Patriots or Colts overnight.

But I do not think that Allen and Shanny would be here unless Snyder has had a sincere change of heart and is going to sincerely act on that change. So we are, indeed, being run by professionals, and that is a major step up.

It will be a lot harder now for fans of other teams to make us the butt of jokes.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

i'm just glad we true professionals running the team. that's all we can ask for at this point.

There are some who are wishing for a little more. Some believe there is another piece than needs to be added to this puzzle. I say that because there are highly skilled and knowledgeable NFL people who have repeatedly questioned both Allen and Shanahan's record when it comes to personnel selection. That appears to be basically the only real area of concern and it's something I think Redskin fans are going to be monitoring very closely as we move foreward towards the draft and free agency. They're going to want to know just what type decisions are going to be made where player personnel are concerned, and if (based on the record of these two men) are they going to be the right people to make those decisions. We shall surely see.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Listening to the press conference, it did seem like Shanahan hired Allen, and not the other way around. If that's the case, we have even more reason for skepticism, because a deliberate effort was made to make us think it was the other way around. If we're being lied to about that, who knows what else we're being lied to about.

I also thought the comparison to gibbs-bethard-cooke was interesting. the impression i got (and this could just be my skepticism coloring my perception) was that Snyder would "mediate" between Allen and Shanahan. Snyder can't "mediate" if he's not at "the table." And why would he be at the table, if he's not going to remain very hands-on in all football matters?

I have no doubt that Shanahan's contract garauntees him total control. But how long will Snyder honor that?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Listening to the press conference, it did seem like Shanahan hired Allen, and not the other way around. If that's the case, we have even more reason for skepticism, because a deliberate effort was made to make us think it was the other way around. If we're being lied to about that, who knows what else we're being lied to about.

I also thought the comparison to gibbs-bethard-cooke was interesting. the impression i got (and this could just be my skepticism coloring my perception) was that Snyder would "mediate" between Allen and Shanahan. Snyder can't "mediate" if he's not at "the table." And why would he be at the table, if he's not going to remain very hands-on in all football matters?

I have no doubt that Shanahan's contract garauntees him total control. But how long will Snyder honor that?

What gave you the impression that Snyder would be mediating anything?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

What gave you the impression that Snyder would be mediating anything?

During the press conference, Shanahan was asked (I beleive by Jason Reid but i'm not sure) if the organizational structure now was similar to how it operated with Gibbs, Bethard, and Cooke, with Cooke serving as mediator. Shanahan excitedly said "I would say that's a good comparison right there."

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

During the press conference, Shanahan was asked (I beleive by Jason Reid but i'm not sure) if the organizational structure now was similar to how it operated with Gibbs, Bethard, and Cooke, with Cooke serving as mediator. Shanahan excitedly said "I would say that's a good comparison right there."

I can't listen to the audio but this is from the transcript

On if there are similarities between the new organizational dynamic and what existed between former owner Jack Kent Cooke, former general manager Bobby Beathard and former head coach Joe Gibbs:

"I would say that's a good comparison right there. I was lucky enough when I was an assistant coach [with Denver] in 1986 to come out here with Coach [Gibbs]. I was talking to Joe Bugel a little while ago and with the whole crew that used to be here. We came here for three days and we just talked about the NFC East and the AFC West. And we both went to the Super Bowl that year. I got a chance to get to know Joe [Gibbs], as well as the other coaches, and we've had relationships since then. That's what you want to do. As I've mentioned before, you want to get the best you can get at every position and I believe Bruce [Allen] is the best at what he does. I want people to challenge me, assistant coaches as well as personnel people. We're going to get the best guy in charge of college, the best guy in charge of pro and hopefully together we can do something special."

No mention of any sort of mediating, and he only mentions Allen. Reid may have asked about it, but MS doesn't specifically address that aspect.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I can't listen to the audio but this is from the transcript



No mention of any sort of mediating, and he only mentions Allen. Reid may have asked about it, but MS doesn't specifically address that aspect.

The part you bolded did not completely reflect that question that was asked. redskins.com made sure of that.The question clearly mentioned cooke as a mediator. i'll see if i can find a complete transcript with the reporters questions.

[SmootSmack]

As a head coach, I have no concerns really about Mike Shanahan. And I'm beyond giddy about Kyle Shanahan. As an organizational leader, you won't find many better than Bruce Allen.

As evaluators of talent, I'm moderately satisfied with Shanahan and Allen.

Where I have some concern is with how the team will be put together personnel wise. Allen and Shanahan both know talent when they see it, but both have a tendency sometimes to overvalue talent or, more often, realize that the talent may not match the value they're giving it but take the risk anyway. Shanahan especially is a high-risk, high-reward kind of guy. I'm interested to see how the team is "reloaded" this off-season but I guarantee there will be at least one or two serious head scratchers.

And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, or maybe in another, this is not the same situation as Marty. Not at all.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

As a head coach, I have no concerns really about Mike Shanahan. And I'm beyond giddy about Kyle Shanahan. As an organizational leader, you won't find many better than Bruce Allen.
As evaluators of talent, I'm moderately satisfied with Shanahan and Allen.

Where I have some concern is with how the team will be put together personnel wise. Allen and Shanahan both know talent when they see it, but both have a tendency sometimes to overvalue talent or, more often, realize that the talent may not match the value they're giving it but take the risk anyway. Shanahan especially is a high-risk, high-reward kind of guy. I'm interested to see how the team is "reloaded" this off-season but I guarantee there will be at least one or two serious head scratchers.

And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, or maybe in another, this is not the same situation as Marty. Not at all.

On the bolded point, i couldnt agree more. i listened to the press conference again on my way to work this morning. As Allen was speaking, i accidently hit the touch screen on my phone in just the wrong spot and the vinny cerrato/jimmy clausen interview started playing. The sound of Vinnys voice made me cringe. If I had not been at a stop light, i could very possibly have gotten into a wreck and died. the contrast between the two men could not be any more severe. I don't really beleive Allen is any better of a personnel guy than Vinny, but his leadership qualities are lightyears ahead of his predecessor. This brings me to the rest of your post...

which i also agree with completely. I think the most crucial factor to the success or failure of the shanahan regime will be whether we hire/retain the best scouts, personnel guys, etc. in our front office. if they appropriately
"narrow shanahan's shopping list," then we should be ok. in the short-term, we should be drafting/signing lots of linemen in, which are generally lower risk positions.