Its Fu**ing Eagles Week!!!!

[44ever]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Actually Ace is using correct NFL terminology as opposed to "Real" terminology.

See, the NFL counts a win (amazingly) as a WIN for tiebreakers and comparisons. SO if we beat the Eagles by 1 we get the same QUALITY win (since it is division and conference opponent) as if we had beat them by 30.

You use the "real" definition, where a 1 point win is not a QUALITY win, but just a poor man's win with comments.

So, in NFL terms we have 4 QUALITY wins, 2 that are division, (high quality), 2 that are Conference contenders (quality in that A- they are in conference and B- both would seem to be competitors for a playoff spot). On the other hand 3 of our 4 losses could be considered low quality losses (2 are out of conference and have little bearing on wild card tiebreakers, 1(lions) is in conference but unlikely to be a wild card competitor.) so out of our 4 losses, at this point only one would appear to be a NFL quality loss. That is the Rams, because we could end up losing a tiebreaker for a wild card spot to them.

Obviously, his use of quantity is correct as we would all like a better quantity of wins.

Really, and in the case of a divisional win/lose tie, split evenly, what determines the 1st place team?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Really, and in the case of a divisional win/lose tie, split evenly, what determines the 1st place team?

I imagine you know this, but here is the list from nfl.com:

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION

If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.
Two Clubs

1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in common games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
12. Coin toss

So, if 2 teams in division are tied, you look first at head to head. We have won both division games so far = quality regardless of 1 point or 20 point wins

next if they split, as you propose, then you look at division wins. So far we are 2-0 = quality win

next if they are tied at division level you look at common games. Here so far, we are 3-3(Rams is one of our two non common opponents the other one being Tampa) , so that the ram's loss while bad in conference doesn't hurt here, because we are the only team in our division that plays the rams.

next if they are tied from common you look at conference games. So far we are 4-2, so the colt's loss for example was better than a loss to chicago.

For comparison: the NYG are 1-0 in division, 4-2 in common opponents (their only two losses are here), and 5-0 in conference.
Philly is 0-1 in division, 3-3 in common opponents, and 3-2 in conference.

note: NONE of those tie breakers rely on the point spread in a win.


edit: I wasn't sure what strength of victory (#5) was, so here is Wikipedia's answer:the combined won-lost-tied percentage of all the teams that a club has defeated
still not points related.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Actually Ace is using correct NFL terminology as opposed to "Real" terminology.

See, the NFL counts a win (amazingly) as a WIN for tiebreakers and comparisons. SO if we beat the Eagles by 1 we get the same QUALITY win (since it is division and conference opponent) as if we had beat them by 30.

You use the "real" definition, where a 1 point win is not a QUALITY win, but just a poor man's win with comments.

So, in NFL terms we have 4 QUALITY wins, 2 that are division, (high quality), 2 that are Conference contenders (quality in that A- they are in conference and B- both would seem to be competitors for a playoff spot). On the other hand 3 of our 4 losses could be considered low quality losses (2 are out of conference and have little bearing on wild card tiebreakers, 1(lions) is in conference but unlikely to be a wild card competitor.) so out of our 4 losses, at this point only one would appear to be a NFL quality loss. That is the Rams, because we could end up losing a tiebreaker for a wild card spot to them.

Obviously, his use of quantity is correct as we would all like a better quantity of wins.

It doesn't matter if it is quality or not. The fact is that we would still be two games behind the leading Giants if they win this week, no first in the division. We would also still probably be behind in the wild card as the NFC South has 3 teams with good winning records that would most likely beat us for a wild card spot.

Quality wins or not, if we don't have enough wins to tie or move in front of other teams for a wild card or division spot, tiebreakers are pointless. You can't use a tiebreaker if there is no tie. Right now we are still playing catch up and the schedule for the redskins in the stretch isn't getting any easier.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

It doesn't matter if it is quality or not. The fact is that we would still be two games behind the leading Giants if they win this week, no first in the division. We would also still probably be behind in the wild card as the NFC South has 3 teams with good winning records that would most likely beat us for a wild card spot.

Quality wins or not, if we don't have enough wins to tie or move in front of other teams for a wild card or division spot, tiebreakers are pointless. You can't use a tiebreaker if there is no tie. Right now we are still playing catch up and the schedule for the redskins in the stretch isn't getting any easier.

Thank you, this finishes Ace's point of the Skins having quality, but not quantity of wins.

I agree with you 100%, we need to catch up and win games. I just personally don't care whether we win by 1 or 100. When the final game is played, and the records are compared, points for and against rarely comes into tiebreakers. And certainly phantom points like the drop at the end of the Eagles game don't count ever

[44ever]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Actually Ace is using correct NFL terminology as opposed to "Real" terminology.

See, the NFL counts a win (amazingly) as a WIN for tiebreakers and comparisons. SO if we beat the Eagles by 1 we get the same QUALITY win (since it is division and conference opponent) as if we had beat them by 30.

You use the "real" definition, where a 1 point win is not a QUALITY win, but just a poor man's win with comments.

So, in NFL terms we have 4 QUALITY wins, 2 that are division, (high quality), 2 that are Conference contenders (quality in that A- they are in conference and B- both would seem to be competitors for a playoff spot). On the other hand 3 of our 4 losses could be considered low quality losses (2 are out of conference and have little bearing on wild card tiebreakers, 1(lions) is in conference but unlikely to be a wild card competitor.) so out of our 4 losses, at this point only one would appear to be a NFL quality loss. That is the Rams, because we could end up losing a tiebreaker for a wild card spot to them.

Obviously, his use of quantity is correct as we would all like a better quantity of wins.

Fair enough but:

If I took a poll I bet most people would pick the Giants to win their next game no matter who they would be playing. Why because they win with authority. That is also why they will win the Division. I'll take "real" quality wins over "NFL" quality wins any day!

And thats my point. I was not discrediting Ace, I was pointing out that with "real" quality, you don't need anything else.

[SirClintonPortis]

Is it 1991? Apparently, it's a sin to even have an inkling that this team has a probability of 50% of winning its games.

[JLee9718]

I hate Monday night games! The Redskins usually don't play well in these games. I just hope that the Shanahans haven't messed up McNabb's mind. They've already tried to mix him up with his footwork! All through the Haynesworth escapade I was on Shanahan's side. Now that he's shown himself to be a sub-Zornian, I really don't know what to expect from here on out. In fact, I thought that hiring Shanahan was like the second coming of Gibbs 1, but I've been wrong before. It didn't take long for Shanahan to wear me out!!! I should have known something strange was going on since I didn't hear a peep out of my nemesis, CP!

BTW, I took Shanahan off as my avatar! He won't go back!

[44ever]

What I'm hoping for is that the Skins have been working on a lot of things that up until now, they have been unable to utilize. Hopefully they come out and show some new looks. I am also very interested hoe DM will respond. HTTR!

[skinsfaninok]

Clinton Portis wears Phillies hat four days before facing Eagles - Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

[MTK]

The only 'fact' is the Skins won.

[CRedskinsRule]

Oh, and here is the Wildcard version:

Two Clubs

1. Head-to-head, if applicable.
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
4. Strength of victory.
5. Strength of schedule.
6. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
7. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best net points in conference games.
9. Best net points in all games.
10. Best net touchdowns in all games.
11. Coin toss.

a couple notes:
1) our head to head so far is very good against teams likely to tie our win/loss record. Only the Rams stands out as one that could come back and bite us ( I am learning to hate the Rams)

2) again, losing to AFC teams means less so every NFC win has a bit more quality

3) Common games, also, since every NFC division plays a different AFC team none of our AFC losses matter. This really is hard to figure in advance, and I doubt many tie breakers go past this point

[MTK]

Feinstein is the one that should be fired.

If MS was really a racist why would he have traded for DM in the first place?

Just dumb.

[JLee9718]

In an early interview today, Nov 12th, Kyle S. stated that the offensive line isn't the problem. Very profound! I'm sorry, my eyes must be going bad when I watch football. I guess I owe both Shanahans an apology because I thought it was the O-Line!

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Fair enough but:

If I took a poll I bet most people would pick the Giants to win their next game no matter who they would be playing. Why because they win with authority. That is also why they will win the Division. I'll take "real" quality wins over "NFL" quality wins any day!

And thats my point. I was not discrediting Ace, I was pointing out that with "real" quality, you don't need anything else.

I get what you are saying. But the Giants have an established coach and qb and oline. We are 8 games separated from a dysfunctional team. Changes take time and take patience and resolve. I will take a team that fights to the last second over what we saw last year and I will give kudos to a management team that is desperately trying to change a decade of dysfunction. That doesn't imply any acceptance of this team as being in its final state.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I get what you are saying. But the Giants have an established coach and qb and oline. We are 8 games separated from a dysfunctional team. Changes take time and take patience and resolve. I will take a team that fights to the last second over what we saw last year and I will give kudos to a management team that is desperately trying to change a decade of dysfunction. That doesn't imply any acceptance of this team as being in its final state.

I'm with you 100% here. HTTR!