2011 NFL Draft

[Dirtbag59]

Trent Williams will be 34 if everyone gets their way in regards to the QB positon.

2011: Oh we need a Nosetackle. Next years QB class will be better.

2012: A franchise Guard will be better then a QB. This isn't a good year to take a QB

2013: We need another Tackle.

2014: Defensive End for our 3-4. Don't worry though next years QB class will be better.

2015: Guys, we really need another first round Guard. Besides this years QB class stinks, next years will be better.

2016: Our Nosetackle is having health problems we need another one.

2017: We need a Tackle of the future. Trent is getting up their in age.

2018: I think we should take a blocking Tight End with our first pick. 4 sacks a year is to much. Our rookie QB will get killed if we take one. Besides it's a weak class. Next years will be better.

2019: We need another Nosetackle. Weak QB class, very weak

2020: I'd rather take a Defensive End. Okay, we'll splurge this year. We'll draft a developmental player in the 6th round to play QB.

2021: Ehhh, our star Guard left for free agency. We need another one, we need to protect the QB.

2022: Trent's to old, the team needs a star Left Tackle if we're going to protect this star rookie QB ya'll want. Besides NEXT YEARS CLASS WILL BE BETERRRRRRR HA HA AHAHAHA AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by skinster

That is the exact reason why out of all 32 starting QB's in the league, Joe Flacco is the quarterback that I would least like to be my quarterback. Hear me out before you jump all over me. He is not capable of winning a superbowl, but is good enough to start in the league. Combine the facts that he was a first round pick and that he is reasonably productive in the regular season and the team simply cannot get rid of him. The ravens will never be able to win a superbowl with Joe Flacco and they will not be able to get someone who can with him on their roster. This is said assuming the 2000 Ravens defense doesn't come back (were it doesn't really matter who the qb is).

You have disrespected Joe Flacco. He will make you eat crow. Go ahead and preheat your oven.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by skinster

I know I'll get grief for this but I'd say Flacco isn't good (honestly, would you really want him as our qb?). Hasselback, although once good, isn't what he used to be, and does not deserve to make the list.

As of right now hell yeah.

[diehardskin2982]

I want us to follow the model of the NewYork Jets. They built the team around QB position without a QB, Then their time came to draft one and he had great success because the team around him was already very good. If we can trade down and pick up a second rounder while also getting a key piece later in the draft like Pouncey. I think we will have the ammo to get a nose tackle and Andy Dalton.

[skinsfaninok]

Joe Flacco is Jason Campbell V2 IMO

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Joe Flacco is Jason Campbell V2 IMO

Huh?

Flacco's numbers have improved every year: Qb rating, YPA, TD/int ratio, etc. Last year:
93.6 rating, 3,622 yards, 7.4 YPA, 25 TD, 10 int

Flacco does not have the gaudy yardage totals of others but he does not throw as much, either.

Campbell has never put up numbers like that. And Flacco is just beginning to enter his prime.

I'd be happy if we had Flacco under center.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Huh?

Flacco's numbers have improved every year: Qb rating, YPA, TD/int ratio, etc. Last year:
93.6 rating, 3,622 yards, 7.4 YPA, 25 TD, 10 int

Flacco does not have the gaudy yardage totals of others but he does not throw as much, either.

Campbell has never put up numbers like that. And Flacco is just beginning to enter his prime.

I'd be happy if we had Flacco under center.

Flacco was 20th in passing yards. With the exception of when he played the weakest team in the afc playoffs (chiefs) where he threw for 256 yards, he has a career high 189 yards passing in his 6 other playoff games he has played in. He threw for 125 yards in the divisional playoffs this year (1 td (from ravens a turnover), 2 turnovers). He threw for only 34 yards (0 tds 1 turnover) in the wild card game last year. He threw for 189 yards (0 tds, 2 turnovers) in last years divisional playoffs, he threw for 135 yards (0 td, 0 tunrovers) two years ago in the wildcard game, he threw for 161 yards 2 years ago (1 td, 0 turnovers) in the divisional playoffs, but then he threw for 141 yards (0 tds, 3 turnovers) in the conference game. Over these 6 games he averaged roughly 130 yards per game and has 2 tds with 10 turnovers (9 of them interceptions).

He also leads the league (by alot) in sacks after holding the ball for more than 3 seconds. Chalk these numbers up to whatever you want, but I chalk them up to Flacco not being cut from quality material.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by skinster

Flacco was 20th in passing yards. With the exception of when he played the weakest team in the afc playoffs (chiefs) where he threw for 256 yards, he has a career high 189 yards passing in his 6 other playoff games he has played in. He threw for 125 yards in the divisional playoffs this year (1 td (from ravens a turnover), 2 turnovers). He threw for only 34 yards (0 tds 1 turnover) in the wild card game last year. He threw for 189 yards (0 tds, 2 turnovers) in last years divisional playoffs, he threw for 135 yards (0 td, 0 tunrovers) two years ago in the wildcard game, he threw for 161 yards 2 years ago (1 td, 0 turnovers) in the divisional playoffs, but then he threw for 141 yards (0 tds, 3 turnovers) in the conference game. Over these 6 games he averaged roughly 130 yards per game and has 2 tds with 10 turnovers (9 of them interceptions).

He also leads the league (by alot) in sacks after holding the ball for more than 3 seconds. Chalk these numbers up to whatever you want, but I chalk them up to Flacco not being cut from quality material.

The notion that Flacco does not throw for a ton of yards because he plays in an offense which does not throw much has already been addressed. You are penalizing him for his offensive system.

Besides, NFL.com has him 11th in passing yards last year, not 20th as you claim. He was 9th in yards per attempt, which is a much fairer basis for comparison.

Last year he had a higher YPA and better TD/Int ratio than Peyton Manning.

And he is young. He has his best years ahead of him.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Lotus

The notion that Flacco does not throw for a ton of yards because he plays in an offense which does not throw much has already been addressed. You are penalizing him for his offensive system.

Besides, NFL.com has him 11th in passing yards last year, not 20th as you claim. He was 9th in yards per attempt, which is a much fairer basis for comparison.

Last year he had a higher YPA and better TD/Int ratio than Peyton Manning.

And he is young. He has his best years ahead of him.

NFL.com has the ravens at 20th in pass yards per game and Flacco started every game. To me thats even more pathetic because that means that 9 teams had their makeshift qb stables surpass Flacco, the supposed franchise qb.
I don't believe that their offensive system is the reason for why he doesn't throw many yards. I don't believe that in the modern era of football that any team with a true franchise qb doesn't use him because they want to run the ball more. The players dictate the system just as much as the system dictates the players. What plays are called are a reflection of the confidence in the players.

Despite that Flacco leads the league in sacks due to holding on to the ball for too long, and his playoff numbers are by the worst of any quarterback of all time who has played in 7 games (hell I'd take a guess and say 3). He averages 150 yards per game, and has a ratio of 4tds to 10 turnovers (9 interceptions).

Don't blame it on him being young. Mark Sanchez who has played in 5 playoff games has blown him out of the water (even though he hasn't been spectacular)...and I don't even believe in Mark Sanchez (thats a whole another debate, and I don't feel like getting into that so please don't respond about sanchez).

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Huh?

Flacco's numbers have improved every year: Qb rating, YPA, TD/int ratio, etc. Last year:
93.6 rating, 3,622 yards, 7.4 YPA, 25 TD, 10 int

Flacco does not have the gaudy yardage totals of others but he does not throw as much, either.

Campbell has never put up numbers like that. And Flacco is just beginning to enter his prime.

I'd be happy if we had Flacco under center.

Flacco also plays on a very talented team that has a good Defense, Offensive line, Wr's and Running Back and running game. The Ravens have few weakness' and most Qb's would play well in that situation. Redskins do not have that yet.
I like Flacco and he is a good QB but he is not great. He has had the luxury of playing aon a very good team and has had the time to grow in his position. Not many Qb's have that luxury. You can say the same thing about Sanchez and the Jets. If the Jets had a stud QB like a Peyton Manning last year instead of Sanchez, they would be the Champs right now.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Joe Flacco is Jason Campbell V2 IMO

How exactly???

[skinster]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

How exactly???

Good enough to stick around, not good enough to win when the qb is needed.

[skinsfaninok]

I think the redskins will take a QB for sure but I also believe we will bring in a FA QB, maybe smith or young who knows? Let's remember Rex is a FA so no guarantee he is back

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I think the redskins will take a QB for sure but I also believe we will bring in a FA QB, maybe smith or young who knows? Let's remember Rex is a FA so no guarantee he is back

I could have sworn Smoot say they were comfortable with Beck. Don't hold me to that though.

Originally Posted by skinster

Jimmy Clausen, Pat White, Chad Henne, Brian Brohm, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, Drew Stanton, Kellen Clemens, and Travaris Jackson are all the 2nd round prospects that "were able to be coached up" over the last 10 years.

There is a difference between "this can be our guy" and "this will be our guy." I'm not saying that we should not draft a qb, I'm just saying that we better damn well be sure it WILL be our guy.
There is a zero percent chance more than one of the guys you just mentioned would make it as our franchise qb. Every year people make the same statements you are making about potential, and every year they are wrong. Look to the past to predict the future. You can rationalize your opinions as much as you want, but it is a fact that your opinions on this subject are wrong as been proven by history (you see what I did there ).

Your right in that the overwhelming majority of second round QB's amount to nothing in this league. However to say that there is a 0% chance that any of them will become a franchise QB is a little far fetched (I know a mathmatician that would go crazy at the mention of 0%).

I personally don't usually like second round QB's, however with the exception of Beck and Kolb most of those QB's had average or terrible intangibles. The Daltons, Ponders, and Kaepernicks all have through the roof work ethics and leadership qualities. Dalton and Ponder are both accurate QB's with mobility. All they need is the right coach and Shanahan is a great fit.

In fact in the past thats why QB's have dropped to the second round as the concerns about their intangibles have overridden their physical skill set and production. Brian Brohm is probably the best example of this and Mallet looks like he's having similar problems. We also saw Clausen drop to the second round last year due to concerns about his leadershiip.

[skinster]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

I could have sworn Smoot say they were comfortable with Beck. Don't hold me to that though.



Your right in that the overwhelming majority of second round QB's amount to nothing in this league. However to say that there is a 0% chance that any of them will become a franchise QB is a little far fetched (I know a mathmatician that would go crazy at the mention of 0%).

I personally don't usually like second round QB's, however with the exception of Beck and Kolb most of those QB's had average or terrible intangibles. The Daltons, Ponders, and Kaepernicks all have through the roof work ethics and leadership qualities. Dalton and Ponder are both accurate QB's with mobility. All they need is the right coach and Shanahan is a great fit.

In fact in the past thats why QB's have dropped to the second round as the concerns about their intangibles have overridden their physical skill set and production. Brian Brohm is probably the best example of this and Mallet looks like he's having similar problems. We also saw Clausen drop to the second round last year due to concerns about his leadershiip.

I didn't say there was a zero percent chance that a 2nd rounder will pan out. I said theres a zero percent chance that multiple 2nd round picks in this years draft are franchise qbs. Your right that I shouldn't say zero, but realistically the odds are close enough so that we shouldn't consider it a possibility.

A franchise qb is SO valuable, that if you truly believe your guy is the guy that will get it done, you use a first rounder on him. There is a reason why nobody thinks these guys will go in the first, its because nobody believes they are the guy.

If it were really as easy as you are saying to find a franchise qb, that all a guy with average skills and a good work ethic/leadership needs is a good coach, then there would be alot more franchise qbs in the league found in later rounds.

Good coaching does not make or break any qb. If that were true then qb's that failed with the teams that drafted them should improve when they move teams or get new coaches. Every failed qb ever has found a new coach eventually, but I can't think of a single qb that ever turned into a franchise qb after a coaching change.