Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I have no problem with the drafting they've done. In spite of that, I don't think it makes sense to let them pick a quarterback if 90% of that QB's career will be determined by a different coaching staff. It is so very hard to envision a scenario where Mike Shanahan is both the head coach of the Redskins through 2015 and a successful one.

Under normal circumstances, I don't think it's a good idea to bail on a coach after two years, but why let a lame duck coach draft a quarterback? If it wasn't before, it's now clear that Mike Shanahan isn't going to build a great team here. I'm just trying to figure out what everyone elses expectations for 2012 are that makes doing this dance again worth doing. The idea that we'll have a second year quarterback heading into 2013 while trying to find a head coach is horrifying enough. Knowing that Mike Shanahan just may pick that QB doesn't make it any easier to swallow.

I sorta understand what you are trying to say, but the flaw in it is the fact that shanahan isn't a lame duck coach. Fact is these two drafts appear to have as many players of promise as all of VCs combined.

You have to give Shanahan the opportunity to bring a young QB in for the purpose of this effort. Short of picking a major bust, our draft position and the quality of qbs coming out ought to be enough to give the next coach (ugh) a start if the worst case happens and the shanahans are gone after year 3.

I doubt they will be though.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I sorta understand what you are trying to say, but the flaw in it is the fact that shanahan isn't a lame duck coach. Fact is these two drafts appear to have as many players of promise as all of VCs combined.

You have to give Shanahan the opportunity to bring a young QB in for the purpose of this effort. Short of picking a major bust, our draft position and the quality of qbs coming out ought to be enough to give the next coach (ugh) a start if the worst case happens and the shanahans are gone after year 3.

I doubt they will be though.

The 2011 draft looks particularly good right now, and did at the time, but VC had a couple of good drafts that he either led or was heavily involved in: 2004, 2005, and I thought 2009 was pretty good at the time, though if Barnes continues to fail, only Orakpo is left from that class.

I can't agree that we have to make a questionable long term decision out of a sense of loyalty to a poor contract signed in 2010. If Shanahan is going to coach this team in 2012, he needs to be the best guy for the rebuilding process. I can't see how this is the conclusion after the last offseason and what it has turned into. Again, that last part is just my opinion, but I don't feel like I'm stretching to get there.

[SmootSmack]

I don't think it's so cut and dry that it's "now clear Mike Shanahan won't build a great team here"

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't think it's so cut and dry that it's "now clear Mike Shanahan won't build a great team here"

I think it is cut and dry. Which is not to say that other opinions don't have merit. I could be totally jumping the gun here.

But, in my opinion, the future for Shanahan isn't a wait-and-see mystery any more. It's been 25 weeks of the same thing. I think we can go back to being the 2010 offense when we get a quarterback, but I think a successful offense is going to take fresh ideas, among an influx of talent.

The offense also needs a new vision. Since we have nothing built, I'd just pull the trigger now and start from scratch. That's just me though.

[skinsfaninok]

I agree with Tripp about 2010, I mean might as well kept McNabb He's better than these bums

[SmootSmack]

It's probably not just you...but it's not me.

Anyway, here's a question for you. Brady Quinn? Yes? No?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's probably not just you...but it's not me.

Anyway, here's a question for you. Brady Quinn? Yes? No?

Gun to my head? No.

Without the gun? A question: What's the cost? More Shanahan? No way. In a fresh start, new system? I can see the upside.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's probably not just you...but it's not me.

Anyway, here's a question for you. Brady Quinn? Yes? No?

Quinn, no. Clausen for a late 5th or less, yes.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's probably not just you...but it's not me.

Anyway, here's a question for you. Brady Quinn? Yes? No?

You have to consider the context here:

Brady Quinn or another year of Rex and Beck? Quinn in a heartbeat.

Brady Quinn because the Skins use their first 3 picks in the draft to get OL and do not get a QB until Round 5? Quinn in a minute.

Brady Quinn added to this roster tomorrow because he became a free agent overnight? No...

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

You have to consider the context here:

Brady Quinn or another year of Rex and Beck? Quinn in a heartbeat.

Brady Quinn because the Skins use their first 3 picks in the draft to get OL and do not get a QB until Round 5? Quinn in a minute.

Brady Quinn added to this roster tomorrow because he became a free agent overnight? No...

Why is it that when I hear Quinn's name Grossman and Cutler come to mind? To me all 3 QB's are the same mold, they throw errant passes for INT's now and then... atleast once a game. Twice for others.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Unaccustomed as I am to being a voice of sweetness and light, I will say that I think the Redskins are on a much better path today than they were 2 years ago. They have not arrived at the end of the path (playoff contender on a regular basis) and the path is not level and paved every step of the way.

But this one is a better path than existed at the time Allen and Shanahan came to town. They conducted two drafts and two off-seasons. They did not hit home-runs with every draft pick, but they acquired good contributors in addition to two players who might turn out to be excellent (Williams and Kerrigan). Most importantly, they did not succumb to the temptation to spend a ton of money to bring in high-priced free agents whose major motivation in coming here was to get paid and sit on their fat wallets. That was the path this team was on for about 10 years prior to Allen/Shanahan...

Just because that is the way Allen/Shanahan behaved in their two off-seasons, I think the path they are on now is far better than the one the Skins were on 2 years ago.

Yes, the McNabb trade blew up in their face. However, that is not an indictment of the strategic path they have the team on. That is the failure of a tactical move they made. Another tactical failure was the blunderous way that Shanahan handled the "McNabb situation" last year. That could not have helped solidify the idea that "we are all in this together" among players in the locker room and it will take a bit of time to get that stink out of there.

The team has a lot of picks this year in the draft - - and might get more if they compensatory ones for losing free agents to other teams. Let me assume they have 10 picks in the draft as an example. If that is the case, then the real test of the path that the team is on will be to see how well the Redskins' scouting department can come up with good value picks in at least 7 of those 10 selections.

The path of "build through the draft and make judicious use of free agency" is a good path to follow. HOWEVER, it is the scouting department that has to deliver a solid draft board year after year in order for that path to get you to the playoffs.

To be polite, the Skins drafts of the years from about 2002 - 2008 left a whole lot to be desired. Was that the fault of the owner/GM - - or was it the scouting department? Starting two years ago, the owner butted out of the draft and the GM/coach are reputedly good at team building, so the spotlight now is on the scouts.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

To be polite, the Skins drafts of the years from about 2002 - 2008 left a whole lot to be desired. Was that the fault of the owner/GM - - or was it the scouting department? Starting two years ago, the owner butted out of the draft and the GM/coach are reputedly good at team building, so the spotlight now is on the scouts.

Vinny was here in 2009, so we have to count that year too.
Except for 2008 and 2002, our drafts were "small", as in those drafts had fewer than the 7 picks you get by default. It's up to the FO to hold onto picks and not make stupid trades like the ones for Duckett, Lloyd, Jason Taylor, etc or trade up for a Jason Campbell.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Unaccustomed as I am to being a voice of sweetness and light, I will say that I think the Redskins are on a much better path today than they were 2 years ago. They have not arrived at the end of the path (playoff contender on a regular basis) and the path is not level and paved every step of the way.

But this one is a better path than existed at the time Allen and Shanahan came to town. They conducted two drafts and two off-seasons. They did not hit home-runs with every draft pick, but they acquired good contributors in addition to two players who might turn out to be excellent (Williams and Kerrigan). Most importantly, they did not succumb to the temptation to spend a ton of money to bring in high-priced free agents whose major motivation in coming here was to get paid and sit on their fat wallets. That was the path this team was on for about 10 years prior to Allen/Shanahan...

Just because that is the way Allen/Shanahan behaved in their two off-seasons, I think the path they are on now is far better than the one the Skins were on 2 years ago.

Yes, the McNabb trade blew up in their face. However, that is not an indictment of the strategic path they have the team on. That is the failure of a tactical move they made. Another tactical failure was the blunderous way that Shanahan handled the "McNabb situation" last year. That could not have helped solidify the idea that "we are all in this together" among players in the locker room and it will take a bit of time to get that stink out of there.

The team has a lot of picks this year in the draft - - and might get more if they compensatory ones for losing free agents to other teams. Let me assume they have 10 picks in the draft as an example. If that is the case, then the real test of the path that the team is on will be to see how well the Redskins' scouting department can come up with good value picks in at least 7 of those 10 selections.

The path of "build through the draft and make judicious use of free agency" is a good path to follow. HOWEVER, it is the scouting department that has to deliver a solid draft board year after year in order for that path to get you to the playoffs.

To be polite, the Skins drafts of the years from about 2002 - 2008 left a whole lot to be desired. Was that the fault of the owner/GM - - or was it the scouting department? Starting two years ago, the owner butted out of the draft and the GM/coach are reputedly good at team building, so the spotlight now is on the scouts.

I am indicting the strategic path they are on. The tactical moves have been hit and miss, like most teams. The Kerrigans, Banks, Hankersons, Roccas are all hits at this point. There has been about 15-20 personnel "misses" in the last year in a half, from retentions to releases, from start/sit decisions to acquisitions. That's been a significant part of the recent failures, but a stretch like that could happen to any team. The Patriots probably have 10+ personnel whiffs in the last two years.

The reasoning for taking the path we had has been incredibly suspect the whole way. There's never been a clear vision for success, which is why Mike Shanahan goes into pressers and says asinine things. The Redskins have managed to win more small battles under Allen/Shanahan than they did under Cerrato/Zorn (except on the field), but the war is still being fought against themselves. The Redskins can't get out of their way long enough to make positive progress.

Now, I am taking a wait and see approach as to what good has come out of the last two years. I don't think the Redskins need to clean house. I do think they need to change some or all of the on-field staff to improve the product. But I think Allen should stay, I think the top executives should stay, and I think Allen should promote or hire a chief player personnel VP to report directly to him that isn't on the coaching staff.

Shanahan's contract explicitly states that he's entitled to all the money in the deal and can walk if the Redskins do that, which is why he's the giant obstacle in this.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Why is it that when I hear Quinn's name Grossman and Cutler come to mind? To me all 3 QB's are the same mold, they throw errant passes for INT's now and then... atleast once a game. Twice for others.

Cutler only has 6 INTs on the year. We could only be so lucky to have a QB of his caliber.

[skinsfaninok]

No to Quinn and Clausen