Updated:At Least 33 Dead in Va. Tech Shooting

[hesscl34]

Originally Posted by Buster

That's ridiculous. If TV and games had that much of an influence on society, these crimes would be commonplace, not a horrifying exception. Someone with a mental issue may be unable to distinguish reality from a virtual "killing", but you can't blame the game or TV show. I'm sure there have been psychotic people who have gotten a murder idea from a book before, so should be ban books too?

There is only one thing that made this kid do what he did, and it's mental illness... and I feel so very sorry for the victims.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

ROB- that is a vey moving email thank you so much for passing it on

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Not that anyone has, but how can anyone blame American culture for this tragedy when the kid was a resident alien from South Korea? I highly doubt that American culture turned this kid overnight from a "normal" one into a mass murderer.

Yes, if he was so appalled by our culture, he would not have come here to take advantage of our education system.

Has anyone considered though, that if he did this because he hated America, that possibly the professors at the school he shot up actually put the propoganda in his head? College professors are being well-known for preaching political propaganda instead of the actual class subject and MOST of them are anti-American.

I'm not blaming anyone else but him for his cowardly acts of violence, there is NO justification for it...but I am hearing a lot about him doing this because of some notes he wrote about hating America or our culture.
ABC News: Killer's Note: 'You Caused Me to Do This'

More updates: he was on a student visa AND his handgun had the serial numbers filed off...no gun control would've stopped him from obtaining a black market gun illegally without proper legal identification.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Buster

More updates: he was on a student visa AND his handgun had the serial numbers filed off...no gun control would've stopped him from obtaining a black market gun illegally without proper legal identification.

I'm trying to avoid all debate right now, but didn't the police find a receipt for the purchase of the 9mm in his backpack? If so, that suggests he bought the guns legally.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I'm trying to avoid all debate right now, but didn't the police find a receipt for the purchase of the 9mm in his backpack? If so, that suggests he bought the guns legally.

If that's the case, he forged some ID somewhere. He's not a legal permanent resident of VA, which is a requirement for gun purchases.

Also, why would be file off serial numbers if everything was legal and legit, especially if he's going to kill himself anyways?

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by Buster

If that's the case, he forged some ID somewhere. He's not a legal permanent resident of VA, which is a requirement for gun purchases.

Also, why would be file off serial numbers if everything was legal and legit, especially if he's going to kill himself anyways?

The article that I just read, the one you posted, said that he was legally allowed to buy the guns in VA because he was a permanent resident.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

The article that I just read, the one you posted, said that he was legally allowed to buy the guns in VA because he was a permanent resident.

If that's the case, maybe they should consider changing their Commonwealth law from "resident" to "citizen".

Non-citizens of the United States have no protections under the Constitution and Bill of Rights, including the 1st and 2nd Amendments.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Buster, I just deleted my post that you quoted since he has apparently been in the States since the age of 9.

[Monkeydad]

That e-mail talking about forgiveness is noble and is a great way to cope with the losses. We SHOULD have a forgiving heart like God intends. However, it is tough to believe the guy just "snapped". This was obviously planned out. He had several weapons, the first bought March 13, filed the serial numbers off, chained some doors shut ahead of time so students could not escape, killed a couple, went back to his room and reloaded and packed a backpack with knives and more ammo and proceded to do some more human hunting. He also wrote and left notes explaining his actions.

He wasn't instantly pushed to these actions by someone's words or actions, he planned it out and thought about it long enough to decide it was what he really wanted to do. It would be somewhat easier to forgive and feel sympathy if he was for instance a bus driver who lost his temper and crashed...but this was a cold, calculating killer who knew EXACTLY what he was doing. If he planned it out while on some bad medication or something, he's probably realize something's not right when he goes to do the shooting. This wasn't a plan thrown together in a single morning.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by Buster

That e-mail talking about forgiveness is noble and is a great way to cope with the losses. We SHOULD have a forgiving heart like God intends. However, it is tough to believe the guy just "snapped". This was obviously planned out. He had several weapons, the first bought March 13, filed the serial numbers off, chained some doors shut ahead of time so students could not escape, killed a couple, went back to his room and reloaded and packed a backpack with knives and more ammo and proceded to do some more human hunting. He also wrote and left notes explaining his actions.

He wasn't instantly pushed to these actions by someone's words or actions, he planned it out and thought about it long enough to decide it was what he really wanted to do. It would be somewhat easier to forgive and feel sympathy if he was for instance a bus driver who lost his temper and crashed...but this was a cold, calculating killer who knew EXACTLY what he was doing. If he planned it out while on some bad medication or something, he's probably realize something's not right when he goes to do the shooting. This wasn't a plan thrown together in a single morning.

I don't really care what his motives were. He obviously had issues, and anyone who is out there enough to do something like this isn't reasonable.

I don't see what your rant is accomplishing, other than really saying the obvious. He killed a lot of people, and meant to do it. We know. I sympathize with everyone involved, including the killer. Whatever twisted ideals was going on in his head, it doesn't provide reason or excuse for his actions. This isn't a product of "propaganda". This isn't a result of gun control laws.

It's a tragedy, and should be reflected upon. I don't really know if there is much of anything to gain from this as a society.

[Monkeydad]

Weird twist: he had "ISMAIL X" written in red ink on his arm.

Here's what I could find about the meaning: "The reference may be to a passage in the Koran referring to Abraham's destruction of pagan idols; in some accounts, he uses an ax to do so."

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

If there are no objections, maybe we should hold off on the debates. I think there are some interesting issues (see the previous posts, including mine), but right now, maybe we should just pause since gun control laws etc. seem so irrelevant in light of the sheer tragedy of the situation.

[redskinsfanatic]

charles manson blamed his killing spree on the beatles white album,and now folks are saying this kid got his need to kill from video games.i think either could have listened to roll roll roll your boat 24/7,and still become killers because they both have some type of mental disease or paranoid affliction.
our gun laws here are lax,maybe it is time they were changed some!

[Lady Brave]

Unfortunately non US citizens do have the right to purchase firearms under federal law. The states can't override that. However, carry concealed permit holders must be citizens. There are two types of aliens - permanent residents and non-immigrants.

Permanent residents are subject to the same criminal background check as citizens, but they must also produce a valid permanent resident card, a valid state ID and 90 consecutive days proof of residency. I have never felt that aliens should have the right to purchase firearms. Especially non-immigrants since they are only in the country for short periods of time.

The thing people should be concerned most about with regards to our current gun laws is that people like me who issue permits to purchase can't ask someone if they've ever been treated for a "mental condition". I can only access records for those who have been formally committed, adjudicated incompetent, or deemed mentally defective. There are a lot of people out there who suffer from serious disorders who seek treatment on their own and they are never formally committed or found incompetent by a lawful authority. Those are the people who scare me the most and I can't do anything about it. In the past, we asked people about prior mental health histories, but I was told last week by our attorney that I couldn't do it anymore because it didn't meet the statutory requirements. I showed him numerous examples of people who suffered from schizophrenia, paranoia, delusions, bi-polar disorders, etc. and whose doctors recommended they not be given a firearm. He said he shared my concern, but they didn't qualify under the statute and he was bound by the law.

NICS can't get mental health records from some states as well because of their privacy laws. So all the crazies who want to purchase firearms at WalMart can usually do so. NICS is currently in litigation with those states because they are directly violating federal gun laws by not releasing the information. It is truly sad and it pisses me off to think that these people are getting firearms so easily. I think physicians should be required to file some sort of notice with NICS anytime they have a patient that exhibits behavior that is deemed dangerous for them to have a firearm. That's just my two cents and no one usually listens to the peons like me who have to deal with these people on a daily basis.

[paulskinsfan]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

Unfortunately non US citizens do have the right to purchase firearms under federal law. The states can't override that. However, carry concealed permit holders must be citizens. There are two types of aliens - permanent residents and non-immigrants.

Permanent residents are subject to the same criminal background check as citizens, but they must also produce a valid permanent resident card, a valid state ID and 90 consecutive days proof of residency. I have never felt that aliens should have the right to purchase firearms. Especially non-immigrants since they are only in the country for short periods of time.

The thing people should be concerned most about with regards to our current gun laws is that people like me who issue permits to purchase can't ask someone if they've ever been treated for a "mental condition". I can only access records for those who have been formally committed, adjudicated incompetent, or deemed mentally defective. There are a lot of people out there who suffer from serious disorders who seek treatment on their own and they are never formally committed or found incompetent by a lawful authority. Those are the people who scare me the most and I can't do anything about it. In the past, we asked people about prior mental health histories, but I was told last week by our attorney that I couldn't do it anymore because it didn't meet the statutory requirements. I showed him numerous examples of people who suffered from schizophrenia, paranoia, delusions, bi-polar disorders, etc. and whose doctors recommended they not be given a firearm. He said he shared my concern, but they didn't qualify under the statute and he was bound by the law.

NICS can't get mental health records from some states as well because of their privacy laws. So all the crazies who want to purchase firearms at WalMart can usually do so. NICS is currently in litigation with those states because they are directly violating federal gun laws by not releasing the information. It is truly sad and it pisses me off to think that these people are getting firearms so easily. I think physicians should be required to file some sort of notice with NICS anytime they have a patient that exhibits behavior that is deemed dangerous for them to have a firearm. That's just my two cents and no one usually listens to the peons like me who have to deal with these people on a daily basis.

Thank you, this was very informative.