Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Well see you're making this a moral argument, and thus stating marriage between a man and a woman is superior to gay and lesbian marriage. Now while that's your prerogative, and the church's for that matter, the government should not be coming to such conclusions regarding the institution of marriage. So it's nearly impossible for the government to "stay out of marriage" in order to protect the rights --the constitutional rights -- awarded to American citizens.

Just to reiterate, I don't think it's the government's role to determine what's morally acceptable and what isn't, particularly regarding marriage. If the Constitution doesn't protect that right, then who will enforce it? That's why we go to court, to determine the test of a rulings constitutionality. And in this case the judge determined that it was unconstitutional. This isn't a moral argument, it's a civil rights issue.

Bingo dingo. Leave the moral stuff to society...dump legal marriage since it is only a sanctification of a moral decision.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Bingo dingo. Leave the moral stuff to society...dump legal marriage since it is only a sanctification of a moral decision.

Easier said than done. And for the record, I agree with and like your definition of marriage. It's spot on.

But one way or another the government will be involved.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Well see you're making this a moral argument, and thus stating marriage between a man and a woman is superior to gay and lesbian marriage. Now while that's your prerogative, and the church's for that matter, the government should not be coming to such conclusions regarding the institution of marriage. So it's nearly impossible for the government to "stay out of marriage" in order to protect the rights --the constitutional rights -- awarded to American citizens.

Just to reiterate, I don't think it's the government's role to determine what's morally acceptable and what isn't, particularly regarding marriage. If the Constitution doesn't protect that right, then who will enforce it? That's why we go to court, to test the rulings constitutionality. And in this case the judge determined that it was unconstitutional. This isn't a moral argument, it's a civil rights issue.

Just because we have sticklers for quotes lurking here, I want to clarify that I'm speaking about marriage between two consulting adults of a legal age; not between a man and pig, or a woman and horse, or her teenage daughter. But two adults considered of age by society's norms.

[FRPLG]

Actually I love this issue...it highlights the hypocrisy of both libs and conservatives.

Conservatives: the bastion of the limited gov't powers now wants the gov't to strictly define something. That's funny

Liberals: the bastion of a powerful central gov't with the will to exert power "for the benefit of all society" now wants the gov't to basically not regulate this. Funny.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Actually I love this issue...it highlights the hypocrisy of both libs and conservatives.

Conservatives: the bastion of the limited gov't powers now wants the gov't to strictly define something. That's funny

Liberals: the bastion of a powerful central gov't with the will to exert power "for the benefit of all society" now wants the gov't to basically not regulate this. Funny.

I don't understand how it's hypocritical...is your expectation that we lend support to government sanctioned discrimination?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

I don't understand how it's hypocritical...is your expectation that we lend support to government sanctioned discrimination?

No it was more a play on stereotypes.

[MTK]

How about homosexuality in the animal world? Nature seems to say it's ok.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

How about homosexuality in the animal world? Nature seems to say it's ok.

How about cannibalism in the natural world? So you're saying we should emulate animals?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

How about cannibalism in the natural world? So you're saying we should emulate animals?

We eat meat don't we?

We might not eat each other, but we do kill each other with no problem.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

How about homosexuality in the animal world? Nature seems to say it's ok.

Gays are unnatural human beings

[MTK]

It's always amazing how fired up some get over what goes on in someone else's bedroom.

[Trample the Elderly]

A sick society is just like a sick animal. It doesn't matter if it is a big strong animal like an elephant. The stronger, more aggressive, beasts smell weakness and feed off the dying. I just wish it wasn't my country that was being eaten.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

A sick society is just like a sick animal. It doesn't matter if it is a big strong animal like an elephant. The stronger, more aggressive, beasts smell weakness and feed off the dying. I just wish it wasn't my country that was being eaten.

It isn't us that is sick. Change and progress is good. Hope and fear not so much.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by saden1

It isn't us that is sick. Change and progress is good. Hope and fear not so much.

I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.

It is but a symptom of the rot. Natural law has been supplanted with corruption.