Lavar says he was misquoted - he wants to remain a redskin for his entire career

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I do agree with it being an awful time for this to be brought up. but I guess the timing of the interview was bad. it was bound to come out one way or the other. But when your coaches are berating you infront of your team mates after a big win, and a statistically good game you and I would have probably gotten a little pissed too. according to the article some players were even saying enough is enough, but remained nameless so they wouldn't get caught up int he crap too. Coles was pissed because he only had 90 catches, and 1 TD. He said something to Gibbs and Snyder about the offense and Danny blew up saying he will sit home on his ass and watch the game on the plasma he was having delivered. With Mitchell, he took one of the all time Redskin greats and threw him out like a bag a trash. Treated him with no class. Bailey, never wanted to be here, regardless of contract offer. He was tired of the coaching staffs getting fired every year. who could blame him. He said when he was traded, he was a classy guy and deserved to be with a classy organization, basically calling danny out as being classless. I just think that Danny is alienating alot of fans by doing things to pretty popular players.
LaVar is the next one.

Good points.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Your right they probably only call out Lavar or maybe just in Lavars mind. When you think you might be on the chopping block every thing seems like alot more than they realy are. I did read the article and it seem pretty one sided to me I'm sure its all Snyder. Correct me if I'm wrong but the whole Cole's thing started with his unhappyness with the O then it spilled over to him and Snyder. Bailey was a cap problem so we had to trade him and Brian Mitchell I can't remember. How can we judge a situation with only one side of an arguement. I just think his timing is a little suspect and just maybe its Lavar trying to get back at the team thinking he may get cut after the season is over but that would be just a guess just as accusing the owners and coaching staff.

Here's a good article outlining the entire Coles story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2005Mar8.html

Yes Snyder was out of line, but again, both parties have to share some blame. And then there was the media leak that really blew things out of the water.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Poor, poor LaVar. How will the team win without him?

Oh, that's right, they already have.

That wasn't really the point of the Post article or what anyone else was saying here.

Yes, the Redskins won without him, no disputing that. But they won in spite of treating him poorly.

Contrary to what alot of rabid football fans think, winning isn't everything. Winning at the expensive of a long line of disenfranchised, pissed off players who now have an axe to grind is a pretty poor commentary on the management of this franchise. It's not an isolated person here or there, it's one guy after another leaving this city and hating us. Why do we keep tossing valuable players aside like trash? It sure hasn't gotten us much so far.

Chalk it up to free agency or "that's how business works" or whatever you want, but there seems to be an unusually high number of situations like this with the Redskins.

I'll say it again, yes the team is more important than the man. But does that justify treating one man after another like dirt?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by mheisig

That wasn't really the point of the Post article or what anyone else was saying here.

Yes, the Redskins won without him, no disputing that. But they won in spite of treating him poorly.

Contrary to what alot of rabid football fans think, winning isn't everything. Winning at the expensive of a long line of disenfranchised, pissed off players who now have an axe to grind is a pretty poor commentary on the management of this franchise. It's not an isolated person here or there, it's one guy after another leaving this city and hating us. Why do we keep tossing valuable players aside like trash? It sure hasn't gotten us much so far.

Chalk it up to free agency or "that's how business works" or whatever you want, but there seems to be an unusually high number of situations like this with the Redskins.

I'll say it again, yes the team is more important than the man. But does that justify treating one man after another like dirt?

I don't think its a Skins thing its every team in the NFL that have the same issues. One thing for sure is that when they leave they have enough money to buy all the axe's they want.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by mheisig

That wasn't really the point of the Post article or what anyone else was saying here.

Yes, the Redskins won without him, no disputing that. But they won in spite of treating him poorly.

Contrary to what alot of rabid football fans think, winning isn't everything. Winning at the expensive of a long line of disenfranchised, pissed off players who now have an axe to grind is a pretty poor commentary on the management of this franchise. It's not an isolated person here or there, it's one guy after another leaving this city and hating us. Why do we keep tossing valuable players aside like trash? It sure hasn't gotten us much so far.

Chalk it up to free agency or "that's how business works" or whatever you want, but there seems to be an unusually high number of situations like this with the Redskins.

I'll say it again, yes the team is more important than the man. But does that justify treating one man after another like dirt?

I guess that's debateable. It's LaVar's word (usually an emotional one at that) vs. the team, which to this point has handled things on a very low key basis with him.

This the usual MO with LaVar.

Something happens to upset him, somehow he ends up talking to the media to vent and and/or gripe, and then Gibbs and/or Williams end up having to address the situation, rather than keeping things in house as I'm sure they would prefer.

LaVar's off the field issues this year has by far outshadowed what he's done on the field, and it's not the team that keeps this going in the media, it's LaVar. And ultimately, I think that's the key reason he won't be back next year.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by mheisig

That wasn't really the point of the Post article or what anyone else was saying here.

Yes, the Redskins won without him, no disputing that. But they won in spite of treating him poorly.

Contrary to what alot of rabid football fans think, winning isn't everything. Winning at the expensive of a long line of disenfranchised, pissed off players who now have an axe to grind is a pretty poor commentary on the management of this franchise. It's not an isolated person here or there, it's one guy after another leaving this city and hating us. Why do we keep tossing valuable players aside like trash? It sure hasn't gotten us much so far.

Chalk it up to free agency or "that's how business works" or whatever you want, but there seems to be an unusually high number of situations like this with the Redskins.

I'll say it again, yes the team is more important than the man. But does that justify treating one man after another like dirt?

You said it all. Us as fans are fans of the Redskins. But after a while we are fans of the uniforms not the players or personalities behind those uniforms. that is the sad part of the organization. People like Mitchell, Steven Davis, champ, smoot , and now LaVar are players we watched in college, watched get drafted by our team. I know you cant keep everyone around that you want, but when good organizations treat their players with dignity and respect alot of those players will stay regardless of the money. New England has players acception less cash to play for them, eagles too. These organizations dont alienate the players or the fans. This is the salary cap business you can love or hate. But when we get attached to certain players because the organization shoves down your throat year end and year out, then all of the sudden turn their backs on them it makes you wonder how important us fans and the city is. I love the Redskins and always will. It just pains me to see us year in and year out throw not only good players but fan favorites and good character guys off the field, out like a pile of garbage.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I don't think its a Skins thing its every team in the NFL that have the same issues. One thing for sure is that when they leave they have enough money to buy all the axe's they want.

I'm not so sure it's a universal NFL thing. Granted it's impossible to come up with data on which team has the most disgruntled ex-players, but you watch enough Sportscenter or NFL network for a few years and the Skins seem to stand out. You don't hear about alot of people getting crapped on by the Patriots or Colts or whoever else and being bitter against those teams for the remainder of their career.

I don't know what the reason is, but this team has a real penchant for kicking people out the door in an incredibly foul mood.

Certainly doesn't win us any reputation points, and more importantly it sure hasn't done much for the team over the past decade or so.

[MTK]

Players come and go, that's not exclusive to the Redskins, that's the NFL, that's sports. Otherwise why do people remain fans of one team for decades? So yes, ultimately we are fans of the TEAM first and players second.

I think the sad part is some people have those roles reversed.

We're 9-6 and knocking on the door of the playoffs, but we've spent the week debating the importance of ONE player.

Now that's sad.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Wow...
I am 100% torn on this one guys. I have been an ardent coaching staff supporter but part of me is now conflicted.

While I trust Gibbs and company 100% to make proper personel decisions I wonder how this situation got so mismanaged. The problem here seems to me not that Lavar should or shouldn't be playing but that Lavar seems to want to be treated one way but all his actions and reputation have soured enough opinions of him that he can't possibly be treated that way.

Let's clear one thing up. There have been rumors since he was drafted that he freelanced too much and couldn't be counted on to stick to assignments. These were rumors from everywhere and not within the Skisn necessarily. I think it is pretty obvious that the defensive coaching staff felt strongly that Lavar wouldn't fit in with his style of freelancing and by sheer bad luck he never got a chance to prove them wrong because of injuries. This whole situation has pretty much convinced me that Lavar does indeed freelance too much. It is hard for us to see because we don't know what assignments are what and for whom but considering this defense has been successful for two years now and there are exactly 0 complaints from other players it is real obvious that Lavar is not fitting in as well as we would hope given his abilities.

Given all that I would advocate moving Lavar on since he is getting way more money than his value should indicate.

But on the other hand I see a guy who is clearly very talented and clearly very positiviely emotional about being a Redskins and I would have thought the coaches could have cultivated this and found the best way to use him since he really seems like a Gibbs kinda guy. I don't think changing a scheme to fit him in is the right thing to do but I can't honestly believe that with work the coaches couldn't get him into the mental state that they needed for him to honor assigments. It disappoints me that it seems they are far too willing to move on without a guy who should be a star player for you even though you have been successful but I also realize that this is the way the league works now. Take it or leave it. Guys can't just stick around because they are liked by fans. The cap means if he can't produce up to what he is paid he has to go. I just wish he could have been treated better. I also wish he didn't take everything so personally and inflame the situation. Nothing good can come from any of this I don't think.

Very well put.

With respect to your last paragraph, I wonder the same thing about the "system." Clearly Lavar improved enough and adapted enough during this season to go from warming the bench to starting. He obviously showed GW and Co. SOMETHING in order to get back on the field.

What is it that's holding him back? Has he learned the system and now is forgetting again? What gives?

Granted I'm no defensive coordinator, but I find it a little difficult to believe that this system is such a work of art and runs like a swiss watch that there is just no room whatsoever for a guy with tremendous physical ability and spirit. I disagree that he needs to be "coddled" or "babied" as others have mentioned. He needs to be coached.

Take a gifted player and find a way to work him into the system, use the resources you have. I'm not saying totally overhaul the system for one guy, but work to your players strengths. That's not "coddling," it's called coaching.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Have any one of you guys read the article in the post today from Wise.

I read the whole thing

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Sums up alot of crap going on inside Redskin Park. I think they are treating him like crap, just like other players in the past. You get on the bad side of danny, and out the door you go. Brian Mitchell, champ, Lav Coles,(although this one has been awesome for us) now LaVar.

All three guys you mentioned weren't run out of town by Snyder.
Mitchell was dumped by the head coach at the time who thought he wasn't as good as the money he would be required to get based on his name recognition and veteran status. Snyder didn't get pissed off at Mitchell and get rid of him. The coaches made a personell move that ended up being questionable.
Champ was commanding a massive amount of money and the coaches didn't think he was worth it so they traded him and got some value in the form of CP.
Coles turned douche bag on us when Gibbs couldn't get him the ball because he was limping all over the field. He burned his bridges by attempting to manuver his way out which ended up screwing us on the cap. I think Dan had a right to tell him he'd send him a plasma to watch the games on next year. Before that no one reportedly had any problems with Coles so I fail to see how the FO gets the blame on that.

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Wouldn't you think a guy as disciplined and hard nosed as Marty and his brother would have said something about LaVar being careless or undisciplined if he truley was that way. I do believe LaVar likes to make plays using his athletic ability, it would be a waste if he didn't. However, how much of that is contributed to new defensive coordinator every year for 5 years. Maybe some. Maybe he doesn't pick up things as quickly as others, and plays on ability alot. I dont know, not on the field to see what is actually happening. Taylor is out of position alot, I dont hear about him getting berated on the sideline or in the locker room.

Actually I have never heard Marty bad mouth anyone so no I don't think he would have said anything. Doesn't seem like his style to go moaning to the media about how Lavar missed an assignment or two or nine.
The other players had different coordinators too and they didn't seem to have much trouble sticking to their assignments this past year. That's a lame excuse. If he has trouble picking up systems then his talents are therefore diminished in my eyes. Again other players stepped right in and got the job done while apparently Lavar didn't. That says a lot. I think it has more to do with Lavar's ego driving him to be blind to the fact that he isn't necessarily the greatest LB in the history of the game and that he does have flaws.
Taylor is in his second year and it has been admitted by both he and coaches that he makes mistakes. The difference is that Taylor seems to understand his mistakes and works to fix them. Lavar seems to want to ignore the fact that just about everyone in the know thinks he freelances too much. I trust when dozens of scouts and coaches say I am doing something wrong then I am probably doing something wrong. Lavar doesn't for some reason.

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I just dont get it. Hopefully LaVar will not walk away from the game,, and play for someone else. Just not for somebody in our division.

I'd like for them to patch things up and work on getting his amazing talents corraled and utilized here to the best of his abilities but it is going to take a monumental effort by all parties to repair relationships and I doubt anyone is willing to try unfortunately.

Lavar seems upset about a couple things that go beyond playing football. They are: he feels like much of the top brass don't respect him and have turned cold towards him. and he feels they have slighted him by shifting marketing focus from him. Well sorry Lavar but grow the F%^& up! First you file a grievance with the league because you think the Skins up and screwed you out of 6.5 million dollars. Now this grievance essentially goes to the top of the FO in one Dan Snyder. The same Dan Snyder who befriended you and did whatever needed to be done to kake you a superstar with millions of fans and millions of dollars. And you go and accuse him and his organization with trying to steal from you basically? It doesn't take a genius to realize that that is going to burn some bridges. He gets no sympathy from me on that. It doesn't make sense that they'd try to take that money out and it does make sense that his agent(whom he has stood by loyaly it should be noted) never read the contract. Think maybe there was a mistake here Lavar? Why go getting pissed at the Skins when they either made a honest mistake that they couldn't undo they way you wanted or your agent made the mistake and told you the terms wrong. Either way filing a grievance is burning the bridge. Second when Gibbs was hired it was obvious that the marketing scheme would probably shift a little away from individual players like Lavar simply because Gibbs was the big name now. You know that Gibbs guy did win 3 superbowls for the Skins. How many has Lavar won? Also Gibbs is a team first guy by all accounts and marketing individual players seems a little out whack with that thought pattern. Also again, he got freaking hurt and other guys stepped in and played well. They should get some recognition for that too and not have to sit and watch Lavar get the adoration while they were busting their butts. Get over your ego about the marketing crap and realize you are the one who burned the bridges with the FO Lavar.
I do fault the coaching staff for not handling this situation the best. I think lavar presented a difficult guy to manage and they totally whiffed on him. He needs special attention to keep happy because he is so emotional but I think his talent makes that special attention doable if you try. That is where I am disappointed. The coaches haven't done all they can to make this situation work and I expect better froma Joe GIbbs staff.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Very well put.

With respect to your last paragraph, I wonder the same thing about the "system." Clearly Lavar improved enough and adapted enough during this season to go from warming the bench to starting. He obviously showed GW and Co. SOMETHING in order to get back on the field.

What is it that's holding him back? Has he learned the system and now is forgetting again? What gives?

Granted I'm no defensive coordinator, but I find it a little difficult to believe that this system is such a work of art and runs like a swiss watch that there is just no room whatsoever for a guy with tremendous physical ability and spirit. I disagree that he needs to be "coddled" or "babied" as others have mentioned. He needs to be coached.

Take a gifted player and find a way to work him into the system, use the resources you have. I'm not saying totally overhaul the system for one guy, but work to your players strengths. That's not "coddling," it's called coaching.

My thoughts exactly. You'd think they could have taken a more positive approach with Lavar. I guess they didn't realize how difficult it would be to convince him that he needed work and they ended up being so frustrated that they couldn't coach him like they seem to be able to coach other players.
His quote about not realizng that he needed to prove himself on the practice field speaks volumes about Lavar's opinion of hinself and his piosition on the team. Seems like that was the biggest stumbling block in this whole deal.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by mheisig

I'm not so sure it's a universal NFL thing. Granted it's impossible to come up with data on which team has the most disgruntled ex-players, but you watch enough Sportscenter or NFL network for a few years and the Skins seem to stand out. You don't hear about alot of people getting crapped on by the Patriots or Colts or whoever else and being bitter against those teams for the remainder of their career.

I don't know what the reason is, but this team has a real penchant for kicking people out the door in an incredibly foul mood.

Certainly doesn't win us any reputation points, and more importantly it sure hasn't done much for the team over the past decade or so.

I am honestly struggling to come up with a player besides Coles who left this team in disgust based on how the FO treated them. Guys come and go in this league and they often get upset when coaches decide they aren't worth keeping anymore. But that's no the FO's fault. That's not unique to the Skins.
I would propose that maybe the negative pub that the Skins get in this regard has something to do with the overall negativity towards the Skisn by the media? I think that has an awful lot to do with it.
A great example the other way is the situation with Ty Law in NE. I don't remember a great outpouring of negativity for Belichek when he up and dumped Law like the Skins have done to some other notable players. But the Skins do it and they get the negative pub. Fair and balanced? Hardly.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Players come and go, that's not exclusive to the Redskins, that's the NFL, that's sports. Otherwise why do people remain fans of one team for decades? So yes, ultimately we are fans of the TEAM first and players second.

I think the sad part is some people have those roles reversed.

We're 9-6 and knocking on the door of the playoffs, but we've spent the week debating the importance of ONE player.

Now that's sad.

Yes, worrying about one player during this week is a bit sad. But luckily it is us and not the team. You and I are about the same age so we have seen both sides of the cap and non cap. I am a fan of both sides, and like the fact that you can add players. My only beef is that we as fans try to connect with players, and always root for certain individuals. In my case, I have rooted for several different players that I thought would be here for a while. Only to have them shown the door. some fans feel this is alienating them from the team, and some(like your self accept it as part of the business in the NFL) I dont think there is a right or wrong side of arguement. We all love the Skins and will root for them no matter who is playing, like the two scab years we had. My gripe, this season, is about the treatment of LaVar, but it hasn't always been. I bitched and moaned about Steven Davis, about letting Champ feel the way he did(which he was probably going to leave anyway) Mitchell, even Tre Johnson when he was a probowler. I liked that dude every since he took up for Brad Johnson during the playoffs that year and go kicked out of the game. Even Antonio Brown, I root for that guy like crazy after reading the article about what kind of life he had. All I am saying is ,fans as passionate as we are about our team, feel that we have a connection with the players on the field, and when they are mistreated for what ever the reasons are, get a little upset. I was furious with the Brian Mitchell and Steven Davis thing. Teams letting players go for cap reasons and such is part of the game, that I can agree on. I just dont think, and some other people to, that this organization handles things the right way when it comes down players or coaches for that fact.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I am honestly struggling to come up with a player besides Coles who left this team in disgust based on how the FO treated them. Guys come and go in this league and they often get upset when coaches decide they aren't worth keeping anymore. But that's no the FO's fault. That's not unique to the Skins.
I would propose that maybe the negative pub that the Skins get in this regard has something to do with the overall negativity towards the Skisn by the media? I think that has an awful lot to do with it.
A great example the other way is the situation with Ty Law in NE. I don't remember a great outpouring of negativity for Belichek when he up and dumped Law like the Skins have done to some other notable players. But the Skins do it and they get the negative pub. Fair and balanced? Hardly.

I think the reason they get it is because of the constant overhaul of the roster, constant coaching changes. If this was just one player hear or there, they probably wouldn't have they negativety. I dont know, but that is one thought.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I read the whole thing

All three guys you mentioned weren't run out of town by Snyder.
Mitchell was dumped by the head coach at the time who thought he wasn't as good as the money he would be required to get based on his name recognition and veteran status. Snyder didn't get pissed off at Mitchell and get rid of him. The coaches made a personell move that ended up being questionable.
Champ was commanding a massive amount of money and the coaches didn't think he was worth it so they traded him and got some value in the form of CP.
Coles turned douche bag on us when Gibbs couldn't get him the ball because he was limping all over the field. He burned his bridges by attempting to manuver his way out which ended up screwing us on the cap. I think Dan had a right to tell him he'd send him a plasma to watch the games on next year. Before that no one reportedly had any problems with Coles so I fail to see how the FO gets the blame on that.

Actually I have never heard Marty bad mouth anyone so no I don't think he would have said anything. Doesn't seem like his style to go moaning to the media about how Lavar missed an assignment or two or nine.
The other players had different coordinators too and they didn't seem to have much trouble sticking to their assignments this past year. That's a lame excuse. If he has trouble picking up systems then his talents are therefore diminished in my eyes. Again other players stepped right in and got the job done while apparently Lavar didn't. That says a lot. I think it has more to do with Lavar's ego driving him to be blind to the fact that he isn't necessarily the greatest LB in the history of the game and that he does have flaws.
Taylor is in his second year and it has been admitted by both he and coaches that he makes mistakes. The difference is that Taylor seems to understand his mistakes and works to fix them. Lavar seems to want to ignore the fact that just about everyone in the know thinks he freelances too much. I trust when dozens of scouts and coaches say I am doing something wrong then I am probably doing something wrong. Lavar doesn't for some reason.

I'd like for them to patch things up and work on getting his amazing talents corraled and utilized here to the best of his abilities but it is going to take a monumental effort by all parties to repair relationships and I doubt anyone is willing to try unfortunately.

Lavar seems upset about a couple things that go beyond playing football. They are: he feels like much of the top brass don't respect him and have turned cold towards him. and he feels they have slighted him by shifting marketing focus from him. Well sorry Lavar but grow the F%^& up! First you file a grievance with the league because you think the Skins up and screwed you out of 6.5 million dollars. Now this grievance essentially goes to the top of the FO in one Dan Snyder. The same Dan Snyder who befriended you and did whatever needed to be done to kake you a superstar with millions of fans and millions of dollars. And you go and accuse him and his organization with trying to steal from you basically? It doesn't take a genius to realize that that is going to burn some bridges. He gets no sympathy from me on that. It doesn't make sense that they'd try to take that money out and it does make sense that his agent(whom he has stood by loyaly it should be noted) never read the contract. Think maybe there was a mistake here Lavar? Why go getting pissed at the Skins when they either made a honest mistake that they couldn't undo they way you wanted or your agent made the mistake and told you the terms wrong. Either way filing a grievance is burning the bridge. Second when Gibbs was hired it was obvious that the marketing scheme would probably shift a little away from individual players like Lavar simply because Gibbs was the big name now. You know that Gibbs guy did win 3 superbowls for the Skins. How many has Lavar won? Also Gibbs is a team first guy by all accounts and marketing individual players seems a little out whack with that thought pattern. Also again, he got freaking hurt and other guys stepped in and played well. They should get some recognition for that too and not have to sit and watch Lavar get the adoration while they were busting their butts. Get over your ego about the marketing crap and realize you are the one who burned the bridges with the FO Lavar.
I do fault the coaching staff for not handling this situation the best. I think lavar presented a difficult guy to manage and they totally whiffed on him. He needs special attention to keep happy because he is so emotional but I think his talent makes that special attention doable if you try. That is where I am disappointed. The coaches haven't done all they can to make this situation work and I expect better froma Joe GIbbs staff.

everybody sees things there own way. right or wrong, not going to argue with you on that. but, Why would a guy who loves this town and city basically throw the guy that signs his checks under the bus. Besides that, he dropped the suit, but the NFLPA wouldn't. The Mitchell thing, I have heard time and time again that he was seriously pissed off at Snyder. Snyder made all the decisions on bringing in those players in 2000, not Norv. And when he signed Dieon, he said goodbye to Mitchell. Norv did not cut Mitchell, Danny did. I know that for a fact. Coles went to the coaches and Danny expressing his frustrations with the offense, then Snyder told him if he didn't like it, to sit his ass at home and watch the games on the plasma he as mailing to him. That sounds like a great person. Now if he said it or not, dont know. But agian, two sides of the story and we have only one. Bailey said he wanted to play for a class organization, and there had to be something there for him to say that. Champ never once opened his mouth while playing here. He was a class guy. He got fed up with Snyder and constant changes. Who wouldn't , especially when you are not winning.

6.5 million dollars, you make it sound like its a couple of dollars. You would n't be going nuts if someone left that out of your paycheck? I know its the agents fault for not reading it, but I think everyone here would be ticked off about that, if it was true and indeed was left out. None of us really know that either because I dont think anyone here actually saw the contract.