can WE now start a countdown to a new coach and qb

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Sorry about the color change I had pulled it from an email and yes that sounds like a good assement.

About my "dumbest" statement it was pulled out of context. I am saying this season is not a legit run at a Super Bowl, it is a make or break season for Zorn/Campbell and after yesterday's game it is looking more like break. More then anything I hope they do will I don't want to watch us rebuild again but sadly that looks like the road we are headed down and it is not just one game, I am looking back from week nine of last season. Right now from that point Zorn/Campbell are 2-9, really they are not tearing up the league.

Unfortunately giving context is not helping your statements.
1) Last year was last year. Let it go.
2) We are 0-1 this year, having lost what was likely our toughest divisional road game of the year. We lost by six points in the Giants' house. We were supposed to lose in their house, just as they should lose in ours. And, if we had gotten the onside kick, we might have won the game.

We can still make a Super Bowl run. And no one rebuilds from 0-1.

Giving up on the season now is like giving up on a college education because you got a D in the first grade.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well we did loose by 6 and they got 7 off the fumble so if my math is correct witout that fumble they have one point less so we win. The int. was in an area if we did not score a TD we would have been in FG range so that might be another 3 or 7 points and I'm not sure if the Giants scored after making the int..

So the fact that we didn't tackle a soul, ran the ball in situations that clearly called for a pass and basically played a crappy game had nothing to do with the loss, right? It was on 2 plays?

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by BrunellMVP?

I'm not giving up on Campbell but I cannot Cannot CANNOT believe that he didn't know it was 3 and 8 when he audible to the run. It is unforgivable to be unaware of the situation. I'm at a loss.

Many are concerned however about the mental errors that continue to be a part of his game. If you don't learn from your mistakes you're doomed to repeat them. How long do we wait for the problem to be corrected. That fumble yesterday was one of the plays that helped decide the game. No excuses.

[RedskinPete]

Campbell what can you say....How long will this go on? Campbell's had four years to gt this right. As for Zorn he has been here one season and a game so I am not ready to throw him under the bus!

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

Many are concerned however about the mental errors that continue to be a part of his game. If you don't learn from your mistakes you're doomed to repeat them. How long do we wait for the problem to be corrected. That fumble yesterday was one of the plays that helped decide the game. No excuses.

I agree.

At this point, Campbell is not ready to make deciding plays that win games on a consistent basis. In close games, he also makes basic fundamental mistakes that contribute directly to a loss.

It's hard to have this kind of inconsistent play from the quarterback on any team. Good teams like the giants are going to make the redskins offense one dimensional. I would think it's more sophisticated then this, but stack against the run, and let campbell beat you. And at this point, campbell is not ready enough to beat a team like the giants.

And I know it's a team effort for football, but so much of the game is run through the qb, especially when the other team is intent on shutting the running game down.

On the bright side, the redskins are good enough to win the next 3 games though.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by mredskins

2-9 but when the AX comes it will be Zorn/ Campbell in Oakland or the street.

Actually, players come from Oakland to Washington, not the other way around.

[skinsfan69]

The mistakes that JC made are all correctable. I'm honestly not worried about the QB. JC can get it done and I'm convinced of that. The problem seems that Zorn needs to hand over the offense to JC. This should not be CP's offense anymore. Kind of like how Norv handled Rivers The run was not working yet Zorn kept slamming CP into the teeth of NY's front 7. It's almost like he doesn't trust JC. IMO we just need someone else to call the plays. Zorn was caling plays like we were ahead instead of down. Also is Zorn afraid to run a hurry up? Doesn't he know JC does that very well??

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I agree.

At this point, Campbell is not ready to make deciding plays that win games on a consistent basis. In close games, he also makes basic fundamental mistakes that contribute directly to a loss.

It's hard to have this kind of inconsistent play from the quarterback on any team. Good teams like the giants are going to make the redskins offense one dimensional. I would think it's more sophisticated then this, but stack against the run, and let campbell beat you. And at this point, campbell is not ready enough to beat a team like the giants.

And I know it's a team effort for football, but so much of the game is run through the qb, especially when the other team is intent on shutting the running game down.

On the bright side, the redskins are good enough to win the next 3 games though.

I would love, just once, to see Zorn put Campbell in the shotgun from the start, give us a 65-35 pass:run ratio and see what happens. I think we'd be very pleasantly surprised with the results. The way Zorn calls plays the QB has to be perfect in order to be productive. One pass attempt over 20 yards (there were longer catch and runs, but I'm speaking of the attempts) a 16:18 run pass ratio late in a game we're down 2 scores. Talk about giving the offense no chance? I know I've been in a bunch of threads saying this, but Zorn needs to prove to me he's an NFL level play caller/game adapter before I write of Campbell.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Unfortunately giving context is not helping your statements.
1) Last year was last year. Let it go.
2) We are 0-1 this year, having lost what was likely our toughest divisional road game of the year. We lost by six points in the Giants' house. We were supposed to lose in their house, just as they should lose in ours. And, if we had gotten the onside kick, we might have won the game.

We can still make a Super Bowl run. And no one rebuilds from 0-1.

Giving up on the season now is like giving up on a college education because you got a D in the first grade.

Sorry but last year still counts it is part of their body of work. that is like saying "Hilter is such a nice guy." but he killed all those Jewish people, "Oh that was last year, silly, he has really turned around."

You just want me to forget about last year because it doesn't back up your opinion.

The score of the Giant's game just like last years score is misleading, at no time did the Giant's think they were not going home without a W.

[diehardskin2982]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Please detail to me his 'bad decisions' and times where he 'held the ball too long'. If you already had your mind made up before the game that he wasn't the answer at QB, I'm cool with that, but say it, don't act as if there were things that happened yesterday to push you over that edge.

I have been on the campbell boat for a long time, until this game. He has all the physicals tools, but he is afraid. I believe that Campbell dwarfs our widereciever's abilities and make them look bad by not getting the ball to them. His QB rating is so high because he always check's down. His fears causes him to have no trust in the players around him.

No matter what u have to say about the defense they held the Giants to 16 points. As for campbell I will list 3 mistakes among the many that I saw from him in the game.

1. The Osi fumble and TD... Campbell held the ball for like 4 seconds, never stepped into the pocket and seemed completely unaware of the rush upon him. He later admitted in an interview that he was waiting for the check down to open up. As a qb give your wideouts a chance! throw it up and let them make a play!

2. The audible to a run on a 3rd and nine! To me it just looked like he was afraid of the all out blitz, and put it in Betts hands. That was miserable.

3.The series after D.Hall made the pick and put them in favorable field position. Campbel was terrible, he burned a time out, looked like a deer in headlights, check down to many times and was scared to air it up.

He doesn't get his recievers involved in the game. He only goes to his favorite recievers often forcing it. Either to Moss, Cooley, or Randle el... or he's gonna check down! Facing a team with only 3 db's and putting a showing like that is absolutely terrible.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Sorry but last year still counts it is part of their body of work. that is like saying "Hilter is such a nice guy." but he killed all those Jewish people, "Oh that was last year, silly, he has really turned around."

You just want me to forget about last year because it doesn't back up your opinion.

The score of the Giant's game just like last years score is misleading, at no time did the Giant's think they were not going home without a W.

So if that's the case then they are 8-9. You can't cherry pick what you want to support your stance.

Here's another wild and crazy theory, the Giants are good. They might make other NFL QB look worse than Campbell. I know, that's crazy talk, but it just may happen.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

I have been on the campbell boat for a long time, until this game. He has all the physicals tools, but he is afraid. I believe that Campbell dwarfs our widereciever's abilities and make them look bad by not getting the ball to them. His QB rating is so high because he always check's down. His fears causes him to have no trust in the players around him.

No matter what u have to say about the defense they held the Giants to 16 points. As for campbell I will list 3 mistakes among the many that I saw from him in the game.

1. The Osi fumble and TD... Campbell held the ball for like 4 seconds, never stepped into the pocket and seemed completely unaware of the rush upon him. He later admitted in an interview that he was waiting for the check down to open up. As a qb give your wideouts a chance! throw it up and let them make a play!

2. The audible to a run on a 3rd and nine! To me it just looked like he was afraid of the all out blitz, and put it in Betts hands. That was miserable.

3.The series after D.Hall made the pick and put them in favorable field position. Campbel was terrible, he burned a time out, looked like a deer in headlights, check down to many times and was scared to air it up.

He doesn't get his recievers involved in the game. He only goes to his favorite recievers often forcing it. Either to Moss, Cooley, or Randle el... or he's gonna check down! Facing a team with only 3 db's and putting a showing like that is absolutely terrible.

We'll agree to disagree on some points (I don't necessarily think Campbell is as much scared as he is uncomfortable in they way Zorn calls the game. His shotgun/under center numbers are glaringly calling for more shotgun.)

As to your points-
1. This from an article in the times The most defining and damaging play, however, happened when Osi Umenyiora, the Giants' All-Pro defensive end who missed all of last season with a knee injury, stripped the ball from Campbell, recovered and returned it 37 yards for a touchdown to give New York a 17-0 lead with 2:11 left in the first half.

The Giants also took away the deep pass but, said Zorn afterward of his quarterback, "He's got to get rid of the ball better."

Campbell disagreed. "Everyone says I held on to the ball too long, so I guess I'm supposed to throw it into coverage," he said sardonically. Yes, he should have stepped up but in no circumstance am I in support of just putting it up and 'give the WR a chance'. That mistake is on him for sure but his mistake was not stepping up and taking what the defense was giving him, not simply 'holding the ball too long.'

2. That audible was awful, no excuses. The resulting Giants possession resulted in the Hall interception. It had no negative impact on the game.

3. The 3 plays after the Hall INT were Portis run right for -5 yards, Portis swing pass for 8 yards, timeout when Campbell got to the line with less than 6 seconds on the play clock, sack with nobody open to preserve a FG chance. When you get the ball at the 11 yard line, there's not much room to 'air it up'.

My main gripe with a lot of Campbell complainers is they just regurgitate what they hear others say with little football basis to back it up. He has to make positive strides, improve explosive plays, make more plays with his feet and make smarter/faster decisions, no debate. Writing him off with the way the game was called against a very tough opponent at their house is kinda foolish.

[diehardskin2982]

Fair enough pain train. I feel that although Giants are a tough team, they are a division team and we need to step it up if we want to be the cream of the crop no exscuses

[Trample the Elderly]

No more excuses!

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

Fair enough pain train. I feel that although Giants are a tough team, they are a division team and we need to step it up if we want to be the cream of the crop no exscuses

Ditto, if we want to be in the upper echelon in the league, we need to show better in games like yesterday!