Should Brunell be replaced? (merged)

[SmootSmack]

I'd forgotten about that cheap shot. You're right about that one. I didn't realize it was Ramsey that said the receiver ran the wrong route. Don't how I feel about him calling out a teammate like that. According to most people, Cooley made the wrong read on the second INT against the Cardinals but I don't recall Brunell calling him out in public on that.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I'd forgotten about that cheap shot. You're right about that one. I didn't realize it was Ramsey that said the receiver ran the wrong route. Don't how I feel about him calling out a teammate like that. According to most people, Cooley made the wrong read on the second INT against the Cardinals but I don't recall Brunell calling him out in public on that.

Actually my bad as well, it was one of the players who came out and said the WR ran the wrong route, in fact it may have been Cooley who said it, I believe it was Patten who ran the wrong way but not sure, but that was the reason Ramsey was apparently irate, because Gibbs hung him out to dry and used it as an excuse to put in Brunell, that's kind of why I posted in another thread that ramsey had to be ready to explode when he heard Gibbs defending Brunell's INT because a reciever made the wrong read.

If all that is true, I know I would be fumming at the favortism shown for Brunell, compared to how unfairly I was treated under the same circumstances, but that's just me.

Ramsey from what I can remember never called out anyone in public to his credit, I believe it was his teammates who tried to stick up for him and clarify what happened on that INT, most of what any of us heard was second hand pertaining to that situation.

[steveo395]

Originally Posted by offiss

Actually my bad as well, it was one of the players who came out and said the WR ran the wrong route, in fact it may have been Cooley who said it, I believe it was Patten who ran the wrong way but not sure, but that was the reason Ramsey was apparently irate, because Gibbs hung him out to dry and used it as an excuse to put in Brunell, that's kind of why I posted in another thread that ramsey had to be ready to explode when he heard Gibbs defending Brunell's INT because a reciever made the wrong read.

If all that is true, I know I would be fumming at the favortism shown for Brunell, compared to how unfairly I was treated under the same circumstances, but that's just me.

Ramsey from what I can remember never called out anyone in public to his credit, I believe it was his teammates who tried to stick up for him and clarify what happened on that INT, most of what any of us heard was second hand pertaining to that situation.

and its not like brunell got replaced from the interception

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

Actually my bad as well, it was one of the players who came out and said the WR ran the wrong route, in fact it may have been Cooley who said it, I believe it was Patten who ran the wrong way but not sure, but that was the reason Ramsey was apparently irate, because Gibbs hung him out to dry and used it as an excuse to put in Brunell, that's kind of why I posted in another thread that ramsey had to be ready to explode when he heard Gibbs defending Brunell's INT because a reciever made the wrong read.

If all that is true, I know I would be fumming at the favortism shown for Brunell, compared to how unfairly I was treated under the same circumstances, but that's just me.

Ramsey from what I can remember never called out anyone in public to his credit, I believe it was his teammates who tried to stick up for him and clarify what happened on that INT, most of what any of us heard was second hand pertaining to that situation.

Ok. I was going to say it'd be pretty hard to support Ramsey if he went TO on us and started blaming other players in public. And it would be very unlike him as well.

[illdefined]

i was calling for Brunell's head at the beginning of the season, but the thought of benching him healthy is utterly absurd at this point, why are people STILL talking about it? if he's hurt, bench him, we all know what an *injured* Brunell is capable of..2004.

it's not Brunell's arm that's got us here, we all know Ramsey has a much higher caliber gun, it's Brunell's LEGS.

Brunell getting out of trouble is what has made this year possible, i think thats clear (and would explain why a leg injury made him suck so hard last year). the age of the gun armed pocket passer is dying in this league (unless you have a horseshoe on your helmet), our division especially and i think Gibbs sees that. hence the Jason Campbell pick.

Bless Ramsey, his arm, and his toughness, dude's fearless - but he's a piss poor improviser, and when that speed rusher inevitably gets loose - the play breaks down and it's INT city. he may not throw the laser, but Brunell squirms away and keeps a level head as that NFC East heat comes.

i thought with Jansen back and Rabach our O-Line would support a steady pocket passer but that just hasn't been the case. rushers always get through and 210lb Portis has had to come up and be a key pass blocker for this offense. i dont know if its our OLine or that it's just a different NFL, but it's all about the blitz and Brunell has been elusive and coherent enough to thrive on that.

regardless, it's just not Ramsey's team this season - and we're way way too far in it to be changing up such a big piece of the formula. only if we have to, and looks like we don't - (except maybe getting Sellers in instead of Royal )

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I agree with the majority that Brunell should not be replaced now. But, I don't think it is absolutely crazy to broach the topic. As the WP pointed out, Brunell has had 4 TDs to 6 INTs in the last 7 games. Plus, our passing game has really faltered lately.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Fans love a scapegoat. Plus it's easy to single players out rather than look at the big picture. The QB is the easiest player to single out and the most convenient scapegoat.

I agree with you here. But, why is it then that in assessing Ramsey people look at his W-L record as evidence that he stinks? Apparently, according to Brunell fans, when our offense was suffering with Ramsey under center, it was all on Ramsey. And, when Brunell came in and our offense suffers people say, "it's the o-line" or "it's the wideouts."

The same can be said of Ramsey fans. When the offense is suffering when Brunell is in, it's all on Brunell.

I see so many people make excuses for both quarterbacks. Frankly, I'm tired of listening to people make this issue black and white, right and wrong....(i.e. Ramsey is the worst QB ever and Brunell is a God and vice-a-versa).

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by offiss

Do you deny that Ramsey outplayed Brunell last season under the same circumstances? Do you deny he threw for more yards in 1 quarter against the Bears this season than Brunell did in 3? Do YOU know for sure that Ramsey wouldn't be better than Brunell? Do you believe if Ramsey goes to a team like the Dolphins, Bucs, Bears, Boy's, next season he will fail? Because I believe where ever he is next year excluding us, he will succeed, but that is my opinion at this point, and only time will tell if I am right, or wrong on the evaluation.

It wasn't the same circumstances, Offiss. In what ways was it the same circumstance to you? What does the passing yards have to do with anything? You see, this is what I am trying to make you understand. You're going on what ifs and maybes, I am looking at this, strictly, from facts I've seen on the playing field. What if Heath Shuler stayed in another year? What if Joe Theismann had never broken his leg? What ifs don't mean anything to me Offiss. That is why when I focus on this Brunell/Ramsey debate, I look at our current situation as it stands right now, not what it COULD or COULD NOT be. That present situation has us in the playoff hunt and currently with a 7-6 record. Could we have a better record? Maybe or maybe not. Then again, it doesn't matter what we COULD or COULD NOT have, it's what we have right now, and 7-6 gives us a chance. 10-6 would get us in and if it didn't, 10-6 is a huge turn around from 6-10, so that means that Joe Gibbs and company is apparently doing something right.

Originally Posted by Offiss

Take a long look at what happened in both Giant games last season, under brunell we lose, under ramsey we crushed them, I do know circumstances can dictate wins and loses and they don't alway's tell the whole story, but we lose with Brunell, and crush them with Ramsey, that may be the strongest argument for ramsey.

Again, that was a different circumstance Offiss. Number one, that was last year. In this day and age of the NFL, teams can stink one year, and be Super Bowl champions the next (i.e. Rams, Bucs, Ravens, etc....) That Giants team last year didn't have the defense like it has this year. Thirdly, Eli Manning was a rookie last year. This year he came in having a year under his belt, and nobody saw him improving as vastly as he has this season. Lastly, in that first meeting with the Giants, Ramsey came in a threw at least three INTs, so I would say he was also guilty in the loss with the Giants - along with the REST OF THE TEAM. Again, you fail to see the fact that football is a team sport. Although the quarterback is hailed as the "driver" of the offense, he is just one player. It takes all the talent around him to make it work. We won in the past under Gibbs with less talented quarterbacks, because the team around the qb was built up to the best standard. That is why I have said, this team still lacks the ingredients to push it over the edge and become a great team. It's more than the quarterback position. Only amateurs blame wins and losses on the quarterback and coach alone, because it's easy to simply blame them.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Let's quit name-calling.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Only amateurs blame wins and losses on the quarterback and coach alone, because it's easy to simply blame them.

I agree that a team's record reflects more on a team than a QB's play or a coach's coaching, but those two things have a lot to do with how a team fares. And, for the record, I guve Brunell and Gibbs a lot of credit for where we are.

You yourself pointed our that we're 7-6 and Gibbs should be given credit for that. Well, if Gibbs' is given credit for W's shouldn't he get some blame for L's?

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

Let's quit name-calling.

What name-calling? Go back and reread my post, you're mistaken.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

I agree that a team's record reflects more on a team than a QB's play or a coach's coaching, but those two things have a lot to do with how a team fares. And, for the record, I guve Brunell and Gibbs a lot of credit for where we are.

You yourself pointed our that we're 7-6 and Gibbs should be given credit for that. Well, if Gibbs' is given credit for W's shouldn't he get some blame for L's?

Of course, the coach should be blamed when it is his fault. There is also a time when it is the players' fault because of execution. Both are facts. But, that isn't the point I am trying to make Ramseyfan. The point I'm making is, with us being 7-6 and on a two game winning streak, there is no proof that Ramsey should replace Brunell. In situations like this, you're better off with the well experienced veteran in at QB.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Of course, the coach should be blamed when it is his fault. There is also a time when it is the players' fault because of execution. Both are facts. But, that isn't the point I am trying to make Ramseyfan. The point I'm making is, with us being 7-6 and on a two game winning streak, there is no proof that Ramsey should replace Brunell. In situations like this, you're better off with the well experienced veteran in at QB.

Okay. Well, I agree with that. Brunell is our QB and we're definately in the playoff hunt. We shouldn't change horses midstream.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

What name-calling? Go back and reread my post, you're mistaken.

I know you didn't call anyone out by name, I was simply referring to the "only amatuers" part of the post. Nothing serious, I should've phased my post better. I was just trying to prevent f-bombs and like from being thrown out.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

I know you didn't call anyone out by name, I was simply referring to the "only amatuers" part of the post. Nothing serious, I should've phased my post better. I was just trying to prevent f-bombs and like from being thrown out.

Oh okay, I was wondering. No need to worry about the f-bombs from me.....I never use that type of language.