Time to Build an Offensive Line

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I don't believe that Washington signed Williams to be a tackle today but the fact that he can play tackle makes him more valuable (typically it is ideal if a reserve lineman can play more than one position in a pinch).

Here is my take on Mike Williams. First, Allen and Shanahan have ZERO ties to Big Mike. I think they proved yesterday that if you can't help the team, you won't be on the team. So, they must think that Mike deserves a spot on the team.

Now, I thought Doc Walker (someone who is an expert on line play) broke down Mike Williams very well today. Big Mike as a tackle is a liability. I think everyone will admit that. However, as a guard he performed much better. He showed signs of being a mauler in the run game and the fact that you have a guard with tackle skills helps in pass pro.

Now, what will be different this year? His body will be accustomed to being 340 - 360 as opposed to being 450. There is a transition period for people who gain a lot of weight or lose a lot of weight in a short period of time.

MOST IMPORTANTLY for him to be a contributor, he has to stay healthy. He wasn't healthy last year but still played almost the whole year.

Another key, they have to get a quality right tackle. Williams struggled but he had no help with Heyer next to him. Heyer can help in a pinch, but if he is a starting lineman for us, we have no chance long term.

Why am I hopeful that Mike Williams can help us? First, he has pedigree. He was an all-american at a premier program. Next, he actually has potential to improve. He has another full year to train and get in football shape.

I am hopeful for big things this year from him, ideally as a reserve. Unfortunately, we may need him to start some games though...

Nice post. I think the part in bold is key. Even at 340 I remember folks saying Mike had surprising agility, and that's after how many years outside the game? As a huge, agile guard he could be very important in the zone-blocking scheme, though I don't enough acumen to know how he'll make the transition otherwise.

The part about Mike playing next to a RT superior to Heyer is also important. Personally I'm surprised we even kept Heyer. In space is just awful and watching him target, close and then block someone (which is key in zone-blocking) is just painful.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Nice post. I think the part in bold is key. Even at 340 I remember folks saying Mike had surprising agility, and that's after how many years outside the game? As a huge, agile guard he could be very important in the zone-blocking scheme, though I don't enough acumen to know how he'll make the transition otherwise.

The part about Mike playing next to a RT superior to Heyer is also important. Personally I'm surprised we even kept Heyer. In space is just awful and watching him target, close and then block someone (which is key in zone-blocking) is just painful.

I forget which game it was, hell it was probably more than one game, but Heyer couldn't even get the snap count right. I thought it was the Ballcoach era all over again.

My hope for Heyer is that he ends up our 4th tackle. If Big Mike and Stephon are both on our bench to start the year, I think we are in decent shape.

Btw...I am all for renting Mawae. We need at least one premium lineman playing for us week one. I think he has intangibles too.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I forget which game it was, hell it was probably more than one game, but Heyer couldn't even get the snap count right. I thought it was the Ballcoach era all over again.

My hope for Heyer is that he ends up our 4th tackle. If Big Mike and Stephon are both on our bench to start the year, I think we are in decent shape.

Btw...I am all for renting Mawae. We need at least one premium lineman playing for us week one. I think he has intangibles too.

Rabach's smallish size is already a bit of a liability facing the nasty d-lines in the NFC East...putting him at guard is downright scary so I can't imagine we paid him to do anything but play center. That said Mawae would have been an enormous upgrade so I'm kind of surprised we "rushed" to lock up Rabach.

I think Shanny has to be very focused on the oline (obviously) beyond just acquiring younger, legitimate players. In Denver he didn't face conference rivals w/ d-lines like we see so he could get away w/ smallish, quicker linemen for the zone-blocking. Smallish guys, no matter how talented, will probably get destroyed facing our rivals 6 games each year. I think he needs the best of the best type of trench troops, extremely agile large guys to make his scheme work now. That cries out youth like I don't know what. This is why I was worried about Clifton coming here. We need serious talent in this group. Btw I think Shanny/Allen know this and probably don't expect to sign our LT/RT starters in FA. Just my hunch...

[Ruhskins]

I'm kinda glad we didn't pick up Clifton, I think we need to get our LT of the future in the draft, and nothing would make me happier than having Okung be that LT of the future. I do hope we pick up Pashos, he'd be a huge upgrade over Heyer at RT.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I'm kinda glad we didn't pick up Clifton, I think we need to get our LT of the future in the draft, and nothing would make me happier than having Okung be that LT of the future. I do hope we pick up Pashos, he'd be a huge upgrade over Heyer at RT.

Yeah, we need a guy that we're fairly confident will hold up for us.

[takethecake]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I'm kinda glad we didn't pick up Clifton, I think we need to get our LT of the future in the draft, and nothing would make me happier than having Okung be that LT of the future. I do hope we pick up Pashos, he'd be a huge upgrade over Heyer at RT.

Agreed.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I'm kinda glad we didn't pick up Clifton, I think we need to get our LT of the future in the draft, and nothing would make me happier than having Okung be that LT of the future. I do hope we pick up Pashos, he'd be a huge upgrade over Heyer at RT.

I'm glad we didn't get Clifton, and for that matter I'd be ok if no free agents are signed other than rookie undrafted ones (I do hope Pierce comes back but it isn't likely). I know that might not be practical, but at the same time, this looks like at least a moderate rebuilding effort and they've got to get young bodies in to compete.

Edwin Williams may pan out as a diamond in the rough, but the fact that Rabach was re-signed could mean they have confidence in him to develop, or it could mean that they'll just rely on CR for a year or 2 till they can draft a center. E. Williams was undrafted, they'll have to find more guys like that this year.

[Luxorreb]

If we can get a few rookies or younger folks growing and learning together it'll be like a real group of lineman. Like the Hogs or any succesful group that grows, matures and progresses together. Shanahan has a much longer leash than Zorn had. He has time to think about the future. Zorn had no chance to win with an old team that wasn't ever really his in any way. Okung and more Oline.

[rypper11]

Drafting Okung would give us an OLine of LT Okung, LG Dockery, C Rabach, RG Williams and RT Levi Jones. Heyer, and Reinhart as backups. I'd like to bring back Jansen (though I think I'm the only one) and another serviceable FA backup (Hank Fraley or David Bass). This would allow us to draft another lineman or two in rounds 4-7.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by rypper11

Drafting Okung would give us an OLine of LT Okung, LG Dockery, C Rabach, RG Williams and RT Levi Jones. Heyer, and Reinhart as backups. I'd like to bring back Jansen (though I think I'm the only one) and another serviceable FA backup (Hank Fraley or David Bass). This would allow us to draft another lineman or two in rounds 4-7.

Jansen's staying in Detroit

[Redskin Warrior]

NFL Events: Free Agency

Here is a list of FA O-linemen

[Redskin Warrior]

What is the tender on Marcus McNeil?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Redskin Warrior

What is the tender on Marcus McNeil?

1st and 3rd, he ain't going anywhere.

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

E. Williams was cut wasn't he?

[Redskin Warrior]

Originally Posted by artmonkforhallofamein07

E. Williams was cut wasn't he?

Eddie Williams the Fullback was I think Edwin Williams the OL is still on the team.