For all you D Hall lovers

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

We didn't trade a 3rd and 4th for Kendall

Right, i forgot, it was duckett we gave up the 3rd and 4th for. kendall was just a 4th. i'll update my post. thanks.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

If Hall signs a crazy deal elsewhere oh well. He's not worth bending over backwards for. But I'm sure people will blame the FO as usual. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

You mean like with Oakland last year? That's not gonna happen because Hall learned his lesson. Money isn't everything. Remember?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I think the FO is handling it reasonably, which is to let the market shake out.
I imagine Hall could sign a contract with multi-million dollars guaranteed right now with us, and this after getting 8million from the Raiders. I think a reasonable argument can be made that if Hall is holding us up for the Max dollars, then chances are he has not learned anything and his time with us was just to get a fat contract.

sources inside reskins park indicated that when the redskins and Hall were talking a month ago, Hall was wanting 16M garaunteed and the skins were offering 12 and not budging.

Once Hall and his agent started seeing the kind of money other teams were going to be paying their corners, Hall likely decided his best option was to head to free agency. I mean, why would a guy sign for 12M garaunteed when guys of equal or lesser talent to him are getting almost TWICE that (Hayden). Hall would be a fool to sign with us for 12 at this point. At this point, Hall probably is the one holding things up. But we wouldnt even be in this situation if the skins had not given Hall 14-16M garaunteed when they had the chance a few weeks ago.

In the end, the redskins stingyness with its own free agents is apparent and in 2-3 years, we will look back on this as another dumb move by the FO.

Originally Posted by 53Fan

You mean like with Oakland last year? That's not gonna happen because Hall learned his lesson. Money isn't everything. Remember?

Yes, Hall learned that being part of a dysfunctional franchise for a lot of money is not worth it. if Hall resigns here, he would be signing with a dysfunctional franchise for not much money at all. He was willing to do that a month ago, because we were the team he grew up rooting for. Now, we've probably lost him.

if hall has learned his lesson, he will sign for his fair market value at a team that is well run. The skins stinginess may be the best thing that ever happens to him when he winds up with a team like New England, Baltimore, or Green Bay.

[GTripp0012]

Hayden's a lot better than Hall though.

Honestly, if his asking price is 14-16, he can go play somewhere else. He's never going to get that from anybody.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Hayden's a lot better than Hall though.

Honestly, if his asking price is 14-16, he can go play somewhere else. He's never going to get that from anybody.

Hayden is alot better than hall? Not by a long-shot. Hall will get 16 or more garaunteed if he hits the open market. He may very well even break 20. You can count on it.

I think you and i have vastly different opinions on how talented Hall is and perhaps even greater opinions on whether his character issues are a thing of the past or not.

[MTK]

Funny how the Skins FO is now being called too stingy.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

sources inside reskins park indicated that when the redskins and Hall were talking a month ago, Hall was wanting 16M garaunteed and the skins were offering 12 and not budging.

Once Hall and his agent started seeing the kind of money other teams were going to be paying their corners, Hall likely decided his best option was to head to free agency. I mean, why would a guy sign for 12M garaunteed when guys of equal or lesser talent to him are getting almost TWICE that (Hayden). Hall would be a fool to sign with us for 12 at this point. At this point, Hall probably is the one holding things up. But we wouldnt even be in this situation if the skins had not given Hall 14-16M garaunteed when they had the chance a few weeks ago.

In the end, the redskins stingyness with its own free agents is apparent and in 2-3 years, we will look back on this as another dumb move by the FO.


Yes, Hall learned that being part of a dysfunctional franchise for a lot of money is not worth it. if Hall resigns here, he would be signing with a dysfunctional franchise for not much money at all. He was willing to do that a month ago, because we were the team he grew up rooting for. Now, we've probably lost him.

if hall has learned his lesson, he will sign for his fair market value at a team that is well run. The skins stinginess may be the best thing that ever happens to him when he winds up with a team like New England, Baltimore, or Green Bay.

I think this situation is being handled well by both sides. It seems that there were some discussions before, when some figures about a potential deal were mentioned by JLC, showing that the team wanted to re-sign Hall or at least they were in discussions.

If you were Hall, and you knew that there were a number of CBs in the market (Asomugha, Dunta Robinson, Hayden), wouldn't you have want to wait and see how the market played out? So good for him if he wants to test the market.

That's a risk you take with players who want to become free agents. You can try and get them early, or they will tell you that they want to test the market. Honestly, I don't know why people are getting so worked up over this.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Funny how the Skins FO is now being called too stingy.

Wait, I thought the Redskins overpaid ALL their players? LOL.

Seriously, with so much bias against the Redskins FO and Hall, you're not going to get many objective posts about this situation.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Hayden is alot better than hall? Not by a long-shot. Hall will get 16 or more garaunteed if he hits the open market. He may very well even break 20. You can count on it.

I think you and i have vastly different opinions on how talented Hall is and perhaps even greater opinions on whether his character issues are a thing of the past or not.

Well, aside from the fact I really don't think he can get or is worth that much money, better them than us I guess, right?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

The contract itself is fairly unconventional, but it did raise the bar. I think the contract for Chris Gamble is what most teams will go off of. Haydens contract with Indy is very similar. Thats the benchmark guys like Hall, Bodden, Bly, and others will be looking at. obviously, the guys have varying skill levels, but their agents will be looking at those contracts and trying to get their players contracts along the same lines, with the total value and garaunteed money increasing or decreasing depending on the players perceived value as opposed to that of Gamble and Hayden (long sentence, h ope it makes sense)

Hall, Bodden, and Bly have all been traded for at some point in the last two years and then released within the past year. They are all in sort of the same bracket money-wise, which is no where near Gamble/Hayden/franchise corner type-money.

I'd take Hall over Bodden and Bly, personally, but those guys are close enough in skill to where I would take any one of them if they were significantly cheaper than the others.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

We didn't trade a 3rd and 4th for Kendall

Didn't we give up a 3rd in '07 and a 4th in '09 for Kendall?

Back on topic, if Hall isn't re-signed he falls in the same barrel as Dockery, Pierce, Smoot (in '06) and Clark of players that we could have retained at less than market prices but didn't and it costs us more down the line. Not that Dockery, Smoot or Clark were all pros but think about the direct impact those three decisions had on how our team looks today.

Dockery-After not signing him we made the ill fated decision to not draft another OL and instead tried to replace him with tackle Todd Wade. After disastrous results in the pre-season we spent 2 draft picks on a 32 year old Pete Kendall.

Smoot-Because his departure created a large hole at starting CB we drafted Carlos Rogers instead of DeMarcus Ware-who ended up with a division rival and has at least one sack per game vs. Chris Samuels or Shawn Merriman who before this season's injury was one of the most dominant LB in the game.

Clark-After whiffing badly on Archuleta and an over matched Reed Doughty the team drafted Laron Landry at #6 forming what could have been a devastating safety tandem for the next decade. After the Taylor murder the Skins are 'stuck' with a player that could be a dominant strong safety a la Polumalu but have to play him 30 yards off the ball at free safety which severely limits his effectiveness.

Pierce has proven to be the best MLB in the division and one of the top 3 in the conference while we had to spend big money on Fletcher and will have to sign or draft his replacement within 2 years. Outside of Lloyd (which cost money AND picks) that decision was the worst personnel moves by the team in the past 10 years.

[53Fan]

Hall made a HUGE difference in our won/lost record after we signed him midway through the season. Hell, lets give him a 100 mil contract and be done with it.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

sources inside reskins park indicated that when the redskins and Hall were talking a month ago, Hall was wanting 16M garaunteed and the skins were offering 12 and not budging.

Once Hall and his agent started seeing the kind of money other teams were going to be paying their corners, Hall likely decided his best option was to head to free agency. I mean, why would a guy sign for 12M garaunteed when guys of equal or lesser talent to him are getting almost TWICE that (Hayden).

Fair or not, Hall got his BIG contract last year, and he was cut. I just don't think that fact should be ignored

Hall would be a fool to sign with us for 12 at this point. At this point, Hall probably is the one holding things up. But we wouldnt even be in this situation if the skins had not given Hall 14-16M garaunteed when they had the chance a few weeks ago.

In the end, the redskins stingyness with its own free agents is apparent and in 2-3 years, we will look back on this as another dumb move by the FO.

Look I can agree with Pierce and Ryan, I hated those two players leaving, but they were "proven Redskins", made sacrifices for the team, played their role, and then when they got their shot, we did not step up. But Hall, regardless of talent(which I admit my bias that while his hands are incredible, his coverage is not as good -imo), is not worthy of a Skins for life contract. If he goes, I will still miss Champ more than him, and will wish him success, just not against us.

Yes, Hall learned that being part of a dysfunctional franchise for a lot of money is not worth it. if Hall resigns here, he would be signing with a dysfunctional franchise for not much money at all. He was willing to do that a month ago, because we were the team he grew up rooting for. Now, we've probably lost him.

if hall has learned his lesson, he will sign for his fair market value at a team that is well run. The skins stinginess may be the best thing that ever happens to him when he winds up with a team like New England, Baltimore, or Green Bay.

I get it, you hate the FO, but I have to wonder if Vinny/Snyder were giving him 18-20M guaranteed at the very outset, or if they had signed him off of waivers if you would not have been screaming just how dumb the FO is for bringing in Hall in the first place.

I don't think the Skins FO is dysfunctional, and I think there is solid proof that they are learning every year. But on that we will most likely have to agree to disagree.

And one last note- I would like Hall to be back here, but not for more than 12M guaranteed. Give the rest to him in incentives. That works.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Didn't we give up a 3rd in '07 and a 4th in '09 for Kendall?

Back on topic, if Hall isn't re-signed he falls in the same barrel as Dockery, Pierce, Smoot (in '06) and Clark of players that we could have retained at less than market prices but didn't and it costs us more down the line. Not that Dockery, Smoot or Clark were all pros but think about the direct impact those three decisions had on how our team looks today.

Dockery-After not signing him we made the ill fated decision to not draft another OL and instead tried to replace him with tackle Todd Wade. After disastrous results in the pre-season we spent 2 draft picks on a 32 year old Pete Kendall.

Smoot-Because his departure created a large hole at starting CB we drafted Carlos Rogers instead of DeMarcus Ware-who ended up with a division rival and has at least one sack per game vs. Chris Samuels or Shawn Merriman who before this season's injury was one of the most dominant LB in the game.

Clark-After whiffing badly on Archuleta and an over matched Reed Doughty the team drafted Laron Landry at #6 forming what could have been a devastating safety tandem for the next decade. After the Taylor murder the Skins are 'stuck' with a player that could be a dominant strong safety a la Polumalu but have to play him 30 yards off the ball at free safety which severely limits his effectiveness.

Pierce has proven to be the best MLB in the division and one of the top 3 in the conference while we had to spend big money on Fletcher and will have to sign or draft his replacement within 2 years. Outside of Lloyd (which cost money AND picks) that decision was the worst personnel moves by the team in the past 10 years.

It was just one pick

Jets' Kendall dealt to Redskins for mid-round draft pick - NFL - ESPN

The Jets will receive a fifth-round pick in 2008 if Kendall plays 80 percent of the snaps this year for Washington; if he plays more than that, the pick would be upgraded to a fourth-rounder in 2009.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72 Funny how the Skins FO is now being called too stingy

They are being stingy with their own FA (Hall)

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat In the end, the redskins stingyness with its own free agents is apparent and in 2-3 years, we will look back on this as another dumb move by the FO.

I think if the Skins would have gave Hall what he wanted when talks first broke, he would be signed at between 14 and 16m and it be a done deal.

Now that Hall sees what other "unstingy" teams are doing $$$ to keep their talent, he will probably demand more or wait and see if someone else will pay him.

That IMO is typical Redskin negotiations. And what I find funny is how once again every other teams players are better or worth the $$$. But the Skins players are not.

I agree with BHA the Skins are being stingy with Hall. And if we lose Hall over 2 or 3mill. Or if we end up paying him more than 16M. Then, we will look back and say another dumb move by FO.IMO. Of course this all depends on if what we are hearing from outside sources are true.