Sean Taylor Spitting Video (merged)

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I'm sure the coaches had a LOOOONG talk with him. I hope he keeps his mouth shut and let his play do the talking on Saturday.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think from the original angle you can't see the spit because it falls to the ground pretty quickly right in front of ST, so his body blocked out the view of the spit.

I don't understand why people are so hung up on Pittman not getting a penalty. Even if Pittman got a penalty, ST was still kicked out and that was the part of this whole thing that really could have hurt us.

Well I don't think one ought to be kicked out of a game for it. I just personally don't think it is that bad. Because of that it pisses me off that a guy like Sean Taylor gets punished but the other equally wrong player doesn't. I don't think Pittman should get kicked out for his role but I do think it is incumbent upon the refs to call games fairly and obey the rules. The video proving he spit did two things. It proved to me he spit and it proved to me that Mike Carey made an arbitrary decision that one thing was worse than the other. So much worse in fact that apparently breaking the rules directly in front on a ref was ok. What that does is it allows everyone to globaly castiagte Taylor and it lets Pittman off scott free both in the game and ultimately the media. That changes perceptions of the incident and perceptions of Taylor that affect how he is treated during games. Now he gets watched more closely and all of a sudden maybe that perfectly timed hit gets a penalty or something like that. It puts Taylor unfairly in the cross hairs for something that was really basically harmless. If both guys get penalties the situation gets dissolved more benignly and none of us are having this discussion I think. Offsetting penalties get talked about for three seconds on the broadcast and they move on. I am sure we can all agree that the penalty was called for but the ejection seemed awful quick and uncalled for. It makes one wonder why Taylor was held to a higher standard?

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I'm surprised he can get that kind of distance without cocking his head back...

Well, he is a beast...

[FRPLG]

And to add quickly. Lets say the coaches do have a long talk with him. And they tell him to tighten up and not get in situations that could result in the same punishments. We all know that guys like Taylor (and half the rest of the league) aren't going to simply stop trash talking and stuff like that so it is unreasonable to expect Taylor to simply put his head down and do nothing from now on. So with that in mind they try to help him understand what is acceptable and what isn't. Not calling the penalty on Pittman says "You can punch a guy if he provoked you enough". Do we really want Taylor or anyone else out there trying to figure what he can do and what he can't. It should be black and white. Spitting = penalty and ejection apparently. Punching = penalty maybe if the ref feels like it. One is balck and white while the other clearly isn't. Now we got guys trying to decide when it is ok to retaliate and when it isn't. This is more of a fundamental tenant that retalation should not be allowed for any reason and not just in this situation.
I just don't like our guy getting stomped on by everyone like he tried to murder the guy and I think the main reason it is happeneing is that the NFL has done nothing to diffuse this illusion that Taylor did the "worse that could ever be done". Hell they didn't even enforce their own rules. That's crappy.

[MTK]

Personally I thought an ejection for spitting at another player was appropriate.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Well I don't think one ought to be kicked out of a game for it. I just personally don't think it is that bad. Because of that it pisses me off that a guy like Sean Taylor gets punished but the other equally wrong player doesn't. I don't think Pittman should get kicked out for his role but I do think it is incumbent upon the refs to call games fairly and obey the rules. The video proving he spit did two things. It proved to me he spit and it proved to me that Mike Carey made an arbitrary decision that one thing was worse than the other. So much worse in fact that apparently breaking the rules directly in front on a ref was ok. What that does is it allows everyone to globaly castiagte Taylor and it lets Pittman off scott free both in the game and ultimately the media. That changes perceptions of the incident and perceptions of Taylor that affect how he is treated during games. Now he gets watched more closely and all of a sudden maybe that perfectly timed hit gets a penalty or something like that. It puts Taylor unfairly in the cross hairs for something that was really basically harmless. If both guys get penalties the situation gets dissolved more benignly and none of us are having this discussion I think. Offsetting penalties get talked about for three seconds on the broadcast and they move on. I am sure we can all agree that the penalty was called for but the ejection seemed awful quick and uncalled for. It makes one wonder why Taylor was held to a higher standard?

I agree with FRPLG. Nobody on this site has been able to rationalize why spitting should be considered worse than throwing a punch. The reason for that is it can't be rationalized. One act is gross. The other act hurts.

Carey acted rashly in deciding to eject Taylor and not punish Pittman whatsoever. Carey saw the spit, was appalled, and reacted immediately by throwing the flag and ejecting Taylor on the spot. He did not discuss things with his crew, he did not take any time to think about how to punish both parties fairly, he just acted as soon as he saw the spit. The punishment didn't fit the crime because Carey's reaction was partially driven by his disgust.

[celts32]

NFL Network had some good footage of this incident and the rest of the game last night on "Sounds of the Game". They had the audio of the officials talking to one another and the skins players afterwards. One of the other officials asked him after he ejected Taylor if he was going to penalize Pittman for hitting ST. He said no and basically said what would you do if you got spit on.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think from the original angle you can't see the spit because it falls to the ground pretty quickly right in front of ST, so his body blocked out the view of the spit.

I don't understand why people are so hung up on Pittman not getting a penalty. Even if Pittman got a penalty, ST was still kicked out and that was the part of this whole thing that really could have hurt us.

The problem was we had just forced them to punt, our defense was on the field all day that could have been a back breaker, offsetting penalties there still gives us the ball and the D a much needed rest.

The ref was wrong in not enforcing that penalty, in fact if you take a swing at another players head I thought that was an automatic ejection as well?

The problem with the referee's reasoning is this, if someone hit's one of our players out of bounds does that then give the player in question the right to turn around and bury his cleet in the guy's face? No! Why? Because it's another penalty against us, how many times do you see another player retaliate only to negate a penalty in his teams favor? Taylor deserved what he got, Pittman should have been penalized as well, that is why the penalty is so stiff, to keep players from doing things of that nature especially when it's a meaningless time in the game and a 15 yd penalty doesn't matter, an ejection, suspension, and or fine, help's to keep player's in line.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by celts32

NFL Network had some good footage of this incident and the rest of the game last night on "Sounds of the Game". They had the audio of the officials talking to one another and the skins players afterwards. One of the other officials asked him after he ejected Taylor if he was going to penalize Pittman for hitting ST. He said no and basically said what would you do if you got spit on.

This is exactly my point. Carey essentially felt the act was so disgusting that Taylor deserved to be smacked. That's BS, refs should not have power to interpret the rulebook based on their emotions. Carey experienced the emotion of disgust and levied a ruling partially based on that emotion; that's not rational judgment.

It probably explains why the NFL didn't hit ST with much of a fine.

[cpayne5]

If the spit don't hit...you must acquit!!!

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

This is exactly my point. Carey essentially felt the act was so disgusting that Taylor deserved to be smacked. That's BS, refs should not have power to interpret the rulebook based on their emotions. Carey experienced the emotion of disgust and levied a ruling partially based on that emotion; that's not rational judgment.

It probably explains why the NFL didn't hit ST with much of a fine.

Much of a fine? I believe Romanowski who hacked a series luggar on Ty Streets only recieved I believe a 5000.00 fine.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I agree with FRPLG. Nobody on this site has been able to rationalize why spitting should be considered worse than throwing a punch. The reason for that is it can't be rationalized. One act is gross. The other act hurts.

Carey acted rashly in deciding to eject Taylor and not punish Pittman whatsoever. Carey saw the spit, was appalled, and reacted immediately by throwing the flag and ejecting Taylor on the spot. He did not discuss things with his crew, he did not take any time to think about how to punish both parties fairly, he just acted as soon as he saw the spit. The punishment didn't fit the crime because Carey's reaction was partially driven by his disgust.

In my book, spitting is worse than throwing a punch because it's such a total lack of class and sportsmanship.

In the heat of the battle, punches will fly on occassion and to me that's much more understandable than someone resorting to the punk-ass action of spitting at someone.

I can still respect someone who gets heated and throws a punch. But someone who spits I just lose all respect for.

Now don't get me wrong, I still think ST is a heck of a player and I'd rather have him on our side, but in the end he's a punk with alot of growing up to do. He could have cost his team the game, and that's a very selfish and immature thing to do.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

And what's worse is that Carey VERY subjectively said, "What would you do?"

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by offiss

Much of a fine? I believe Romanowski who hacked a series luggar on Ty Streets only recieved I believe a 5000.00 fine.

Fines have escalated these days, that Romanowski fine happened a few years ago. The landscape has changed since then and those past years don't make for very good comparisons to today. Portis got hit with $20,000 for wearing goofy socks this year. I think that puts the Taylor fine in perspective a bit better.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Personally I thought an ejection for spitting at another player was appropriate.

And that's cool. I think we should all be able to respect basic fundamental opinions like this. I can totally see why some think it should be ejectable but I happen to disagree. No biggie.