Jon Jansen's Comments on HGH

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

HGH is not a steroid as has been aluded to. It occurs naturally in the body and goes up and down constantly. That is why there is no real conclusive test for it. Not to say it is better or worse but it is simply a performance enhancer.

True, it's not a synthetic drug like a steroid, but when you mess with the levels of any hormone in the body for reasons other than regulating it to a normal level for health reasons, the body will not handle it well and it will cause more harm than benefit.

What would happen if you decided to double the amount of, let's say stomach acid...uh oh. Look what happens when women increase their levels of testostersone...it not only makes them less of a woman, but it opens the door to medical conditions they would not have had otherwise.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by RiggoRules

If someone in baseball said it, the union would come down on that player like a ton of bricks.

In the context that JJ is a long time veteran member of the team, the part that bothers me about the comment is that it suggests to me that the number applies to the Skins. My guess is that JJ has some strong feelings about playing and recovering within the rules while others are just doing whatever they can get away with.

More than performance enhancing, these drugs are recovery enhancing. To me, that is the big temptation. Being a bit stronger or faster is nice, but it has nowhere near the economic impact or game impact that it does if you get back on the field two games sooner than you would have otherwise. Recovery enhancement impact can mean the difference between 0% forever and 100% for five years.

Right now, I think there is very little intelligent discussion about these drugs. Everything is emotional. There are throw away lines about people being a "cheater". There is so much more to it than that.

There is also little discussion about the impact SOME of these drugs have. One impact is in the area of aggression. Another is in the area of sexual disfunction. But the big one is the unknown. What role did steroids play on Lyle Alzado dying of a brain tumor. Once again, we need more intelligent discussion and less emotional rhetoric (yeah I know, it is the age of the Internet, so what should I fucking expect).

All that being said, I'm not sure about a couple of things. First, I have VERY LITTLE confidence in the accuracy (on both positive and negative results) in terms of the testing. The confidence in testing for HGH is a gigantic question. In all likelyhood, the only people who could get caught for HGH are the stupid, overtalkative and the unlucky.

Second, I think there are circumstances where some of the substances that are banned should be allowed. For instance, there are many medically indicated use for a steroid for a large number of medical issues. How about cold meds? Should we really be screwing up careers and lives because someone wanted to deal with a nasty cold? If there is a treatment for an injury that is supervised by a real doctor and is safe (not perfectly, no drug is perfectly safe or without side effects), why should we ban those treatments?

I think we can definitely open a huge can of worms by trying to address all the intelligent questions and arguments you just stated. But to do so at the expense of an extremely profitable enterprise, such as the NFL, and also the fact that they've managed to maintain a pretty clean image over the years is something they aren't in a rush to address.

I think what makes steriod use, or whatever the choice of enhancement, in baseball more of headliner is that one individual can instantly and consistantly change the outcome of the game and therefore a team's fortune. Whereas in football, you're always lining up 11 on 11, and the chances for one player to have such a great impact on the outcome of the game isn't as great.

[Monkeydad]

I also think the focus on baseball is due to the magnitude of the records falling to "cheaters".

If Payton's rushing record was about to fall and Emmitt Smith had been a known steroid user (or HGH), not to mention a jerk like Bonds, there may have been the same hightened emotions and media frenzy.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Buster

True, it's not a synthetic drug like a steroid, but when you mess with the levels of any hormone in the body for reasons other than regulating it to a normal level for health reasons, the body will not handle it well and it will cause more harm than benefit.

What would happen if you decided to double the amount of, let's say stomach acid...uh oh. Look what happens when women increase their levels of testostersone...it not only makes them less of a woman, but it opens the door to medical conditions they would not have had otherwise.

I think you missed my point. It was simply that HGH is not a steroid. I did not mean to diminish the impact of its use. Just trying to educate a little.

[offiss]

15% to 20%? He's being very kind!

The bottom line is sports in general are flooded with HGH, and lets face the facts nobody wants them out, they produce a more intense and spectacular product, which produces more money for the powers that be.

Stiffer drug testing? Theres a laugh! Stiffer drug testing for something they can't detect, nor want to know about to begin with, please don't insult our intelligence!

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I think you missed my point. It was simply that HGH is not a steroid. I did not mean to diminish the impact of its use. Just trying to educate a little.

No, I got your point, I just added to it.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Buster

I also think the focus on baseball is due to the magnitude of the records falling to "cheaters".

If Payton's rushing record was about to fall and Emmitt Smith had been a known steroid user (or HGH), not to mention a jerk like Bonds, there may have been the same hightened emotions and media frenzy.

I think a lot has to do with the fact that numbers mean a lot more in baseball. I mean you know that Hank Aaron has the record with 755 homeruns. You know Emmitt holds the rushing record, but how many people can tell you right off the top of their head how many yards he rushed for exactly? Cal Ripken played in 2632 consecutive games, I'm not even sure who holds the record in the NFL. Favre maybe?

By the way, for those that would like to jump to the following conclusion this does not mean Clinton Portis is juicing

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I think a lot has to do with the fact that numbers mean a lot more in baseball. I mean you know that Hank Aaron has the record with 755 homeruns. You know Emmitt holds the rushing record, but how many people can tell you right off the top of their head how many yards he rushed for exactly? Cal Ripken played in 2632 consecutive games, I'm not even sure who holds the record in the NFL. Favre maybe?

By the way, for those that would like to jump to the following conclusion this does not mean Clinton Portis is juicing

Funny you mention CP, because I think he is one of the Redskins that has had noticable muscle increase over the past year or so.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

By the way, for those that would like to jump to the following conclusion this does not mean Clinton Portis is juicing

That sorta came out of left field?!?!

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

That sorta came out of left field?!?!

It actually didn't really. Someone here, I won't say who, out of the blue a few months ago said Portis was clearly juicing. And all I'm saying is don't assume.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

That sorta came out of left field?!?!

I don't think so, his name would have eventually come up in this thread.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

It actually didn't really. Someone here, I won't say who, out of the blue a few months ago said Portis was clearly juicing. And all I'm saying is don't assume.

Gotcha. It seemed out of the blue and so therefore sounded defensive like you knew some inside info or something. Got sorta scared.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I think a lot has to do with the fact that numbers mean a lot more in baseball. I mean you know that Hank Aaron has the record with 755 homeruns. You know Emmitt holds the rushing record, but how many people can tell you right off the top of their head how many yards he rushed for exactly? Cal Ripken played in 2632 consecutive games, I'm not even sure who holds the record in the NFL. Favre maybe?

By the way, for those that would like to jump to the following conclusion this does not mean Clinton Portis is juicing

Babe Ruth ate 2,632 hot dogs.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Buster

Babe Ruth ate 2,632 hot dogs.

But did he use mustard or ketchup is the real question, Buster?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Buster

Babe Ruth ate 2,632 hot dogs.

Can I get an Amen from the bobbleheads