Are We Critiquing the Wrong Coaches?

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by 61cad

Well.... Here is a link to some pictures from another thread. Gibbs today and one with the SB trophy.

And you say he looks the same?

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...ust-go-20.html

don't be a tool, don't compare a sideline picture to a superbowl victory picture behind a podium. gibbs looks the same on the sidelines now as he did in his superbowl years, not too excited when leading and not to nervous when trailing, just calm, always stay calm.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by 61cad

Well.... Here is a link to some pictures from another thread. Gibbs today and one with the SB trophy.

And you say he looks the same?

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...ust-go-20.html

Again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Anybody who is old enough to have witnessed Gibbs I will know that he has always had the same mannerisms back then as he does today. That's stretching it pretty fair to throw some flames at 'em.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by 61cad

Well.... Here is a link to some pictures from another thread. Gibbs today and one with the SB trophy.

And you say he looks the same?

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...ust-go-20.html

What does a picture of him smiling at a parade with the SB trophy have to do with his sideline behavior...talk about apples and oranges. Who doesn't smile with the Super Bowl trophy in their hands?

[61cad]

Originally Posted by celts32

Gibbs looks the same on the sidelines as he did when he was collecting Super Bowl trophies. If head coach sideline hysterics had anything to do with winning football games then the Giants would never lose...

Joe... Here is Celts post. Matty jumped in. I posted the link of a picture of Gibbs Collecting his SB trophy and this year sideline as Celts suggested.

As for Coughlin as stated by me "they won the NFC East last year"

As for hysterics... Coughlin and Cowher... pretty much hysterical coaches have proven to be winners.

Revisit Gibbs 1. The man was more animated because he was calling plays, talking to players and coaches.

Who do you think the better coach is right now....Gibbs or Cowher?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 61cad

Joe... Here is Celts post. Matty jumped in. I posted the link of a picture of Gibbs Collecting his SB trophy and this year sideline as Celts suggested.

In line with TAFKAS' comment, and to give you the benefit of the doubt. I would suggest that you have misinterpreted Celts comment.

Originally Posted by 61cad

As for Coughlin as stated by me "they won the NFC East last year"

As for hysterics... Coughlin and Cowher... pretty much hysterical coaches have proven to be winners.

First - I wouldn't say either coach is "hysterical" perhaps "animated" is a better term. Further, as far as I can tell, no one has contended that demonstratively emotional coaches are doomed to failure. Rather, the point has been consistently made by others that it is the overall coaching ability of an individual rather than their particular style that is the most important factor.

Originally Posted by 61cad

Revisit Gibbs 1. The man was more animated because he was calling plays, talking to players and coaches.

I am sorry, but my personal recollections of Gibbs sideline demeanor during that time are that he was just as stoic and stone faced as his now. First time I saw him during Gibbs II, I remember thinking that, except for a few more wrinkles, he looks just the same as he used to. Even has the same damn hat.

Originally Posted by 61cad

Who do you think the better coach is right now....Gibbs or Cowher?

Personally, I think both (but particularly Joe) are great coaches who have their ups and downs and whose sideline personas differ significantly.

As for who is the better coach "right now". Since Cowher is returning from an away game, he is probably drinking coffee or doing some other non-football related event, whereas Gibss is probably in meetings reviewing this weeks game plan. So, my vote would go to Gibbs at this particular moment.

[12thMan]

I'll say this in Gibbs' defense, there probably aren't more than five coaches in the entire NFL that work harder and grind like Joe Gibbs does.

I distinctly remember the week he returned he was if he ever considered coaching another team like Bill Parcells. He responded, "It never crossed my mind, I'm a Redskin....I couldn't see myself coaching anywhere other than Washington D.C."

That statement blew me away because coaches and players come out of retirement all the time or drag out their retirement with various teams all the time. But Gibbs chose to come back to his roots and risk failure and ridicule, which says a lot.

The reason I bring this up in this thread, is because I wonder if his 'lieutenants' have that same selfless spirit and mind set when it comes to turning this franchise around. To Joe Gibbs this isn't simply a vocation, but it's a calling. And I'm not sure that his supporting cast see it the same way.

[JWsleep]

Here's a question about the "too many cooks" issue--do we have a much bigger staff than other teams? Or is it just that we pay the most, and give our assistants more powerful sounding titles--"assistant head coach offense" etc?

HOw differently are other teams structured?

I agree that fundamentals are lacking. But the coaches have an influence on that by how they manage and encourage, or rebuke, their palyers. Imagined what happened when you didn't do the fundamentals on a Vince Lombardi team. But clearly Gibbs knows how to get a team playing mistake free--his 80's teams were that way.

SO much of the game is mental, that when one thing goes wrong, it can snowball, as AB's NB pointed out. We're seeing a lot of that here.

[724Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

Here's a question about the "too many cooks" issue--do we have a much bigger staff than other teams? Or is it just that we pay the most, and give our assistants more powerful sounding titles--"assistant head coach offense" etc?

HOw differently are other teams structured?

I agree that fundamentals are lacking. But the coaches have an influence on that by how they manage and encourage, or rebuke, their palyers. Imagined what happened when you didn't do the fundamentals on a Vince Lombardi team. But clearly Gibbs knows how to get a team playing mistake free--his 80's teams were that way.

SO much of the game is mental, that when one thing goes wrong, it can snowball, as AB's NB pointed out. We're seeing a lot of that here.

To add-on to that, do we have more than one coach giving instructions to the same guys at a particular position?

[JoeRedskin]

Recoginizing that Gibbs cannot realistically oversee/micromanage every coach as they perform their job, I would hope that he does take the time to review the coach's performance both on the practice field and away from it in the various meetings. Yes, he has to trust he lieutenants but he also has to supervise them and, when appropriate, take them to task.

As for the players failing to perform the basics - that really is a tough one. To make that determination, you'd almost have to see how the practices are carried out. If the coaches are coaching and the players are practicing proper technique but failing to perform that which is practiced on game day - then it's on the players. If, however, the coaches aren't dedicating any time to reinforcing basic techniques, then I would say it's a coaching problem.

Given the complexity of the game these days, I would expect that most position coaches are reviewing and prepping the game plan for the following week and that any technique coaching is a one-one thing done in the course of the game-plan practice. I bet that, unless Gibbs mandates it, that the position coaches are not spending time on basic tackling/blocking drills.

[celts32]

I am a Gibbs guy so I don't mean this as a knock on him but in general whether your talking about sports or the real world...a fish rots from the head down. If those coaches are f-ing up it would still be Gibbs & Saunders job to get them in line and ultimately their responsibility regardless.

I don't really blame coaching at all...I think the fault for this season lies mostly on front office talent evaluation and to a lesser extent injuries. We played the meaningful portion of our schedule without ever having Portis and Springs healthy and they are arguably the most important players on each side of the ball.

[MTK]

Gibbs through the years has always been very stoic on the sidelines.

I guess Tom Coughlin's sideline gestures are really doing them a lot of good huh?

How about perhaps the most stone faced of coaches in the league, Bill Belichick? What's his deal? Somehow they win despite his lack of emotion.

I seriously don't know where people come up with this stuff sometimes.

[61cad]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Gibbs through the years has always been very stoic on the sidelines.

I guess Tom Coughlin's sideline gestures are really doing them a lot of good huh?

How about perhaps the most stone faced of coaches in the league, Bill Belichick? What's his deal? Somehow they win despite his lack of emotion.

I seriously don't know where people come up with this stuff sometimes.

And you are suggesting the coaches who show emotion are big losers.

I am pretty sure Coughlin won the NFC East last year and how about that loser Bill Cowher?

Oh no.... Wait .... Cowher won the Super Bowl.

Some how they win getting excitied about thier teams.

[JoeRedskin]

Taking this back to the assistants - maybe we need some more clipboard throwing by Greg Blache.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Taking this back to the assistants - maybe we need some more clipboard throwing by Greg Blache.

No, what he needs is some people that lose sleep over this team like he does. He needs people that bleed Redskins like he does. And this more than anything is the crux of what my complaint is.....I think Joe Gibbs needs more Joe Gibbs' and less titles running around Redskins Park.

Here's a man that left a mulit-million dollar enterprise to try to resuscitate a failing franchise.

Just to draw a contrast between him and Gregg Williams, for instance, Williams has allowed no less than five starters to leave under his watch. Joe Gibbs, on the other hand, holds onto a guy buried on the depth chart like Taylor Jacobs, and a very mediocre kicker like Nick Novak(twice) until the bitter end. The only reason Lav Coles is gone is because he more or less flat out said I want out.

That's not an indictment, but it shows his loyalty.

"But 12th, just yesterday you voted that Gibbs couldn't right the ship."
It sounds like you've changed your mind. If you must call me on the carpet, read everything I've said.

I don't think we have a personnel problem, I think we have a coaching staff problem. I'm actually crazy enought to believe we could field the very same team that will suit up against Philly in four days, and win with that exact line up next year. Yep, the same bunch to a man.

So, we'll see I guess. Okay, I'm off my soap box.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Throughout the season we’ve been debating Gibbs or Saunders. Can their philosophies coexist? Do their personalities clash? Should Gibbs take tighter control of the offense? Should we give Saunders his walking papers?

But let me throw this out here, are we talking about the wrong offensive coaches? Little things, like dropping passes, running tight routes, blocking, these are problems on a lower level of the offense. This is the stuff the position coaches should be working on right? This isn’t about scheme really this is about basic fundamentals.

So I guess my question is do our coaching problems really lie with coaches like Bill Lazor, Earnest Byner, and Stan Hixon and not the big picture guys (Saunders and Gibbs)

Anyway, just some food for thought

My concern is with Lazor. When you have as much invested in a guy like JC, then why do you have someone with so little NFL experience in his ear all the time? I would go out and get someone who has a proven history with NFL QB's. Gibbs should know better. I wish they could have somehow kept Mustgrave around. Jim Fassel is also out there. Although I'm sure he has bigger things on his plate then being the Skins QB coach. But isn't Jack Burns and Don Bruex still on the staff? What the hell are they doing? Are they up in the box with Saunders? I don't see them on the sidelines. Just Lazor with Campbell all the time.