Are the recievers getting open

[GoSkins!]

The obvious ansewer is that the underneath receivers were open, but the Rams took away the long pass. We burned them with the underneath stuff and scored 31 points. We should win games when we score 31 points. Cooley was opened all day, and Moss was open on the comebacks. If the Rams understand how to defend anything it should be the long ball with the guys they see in practice every day.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

The obvious ansewer is that the underneath receivers were open, but the Rams took away the long pass. We burned them with the underneath stuff and scored 31 points. We should win games when we score 31 points. Cooley was opened all day, and Moss was open on the comebacks. If the Rams understand how to defend anything it should be the long ball with the guys they see in practice every day.

Yes, I thought the game plan was good at attacking what the defense gave us, but I look at the stats post game and its another day of JC completing only 50%. Too many inaccurate throws today on attempts under 10 yards. And it's not that he's not taking what hes given. The completion to Duckett was a work of art, how he came off play action (eyes downfield) to find him wide open in the flat. But for every time he did that, there were 3 missed throws of similar distance.

Right now if you take away our deep passing game, the entire passing game becomes inconsistent. Yeah we had 4 good drives today (24 pts, not going to credit the offense for scoring off that blocked punt), but we have 4+ good drives every game. The difference is that today, we finished those and put it in the endzone. Instead of 1 TD and 3 FGs (16 pts), we got 1 FG and 3 TDs (24 pts). That's encouraging.

[redsk1]

In order for us to become a good offensive team we are going to have to get the ball in our playmakers hands. We have great WR's. Let's not overthink this. JC is young and is learning but is having a hard time getting the ball out to the WR's consistently. We have turned the corner in regards to running the ball now we've got to improve in the explosive play of our WR's.

IMO, it's not that their not open.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by riggoraider

Although Cooley is a very good receiving "tight end" he is NOT a receiver nor do he possess receiver skills. He is coming off blocks which limits his abilities and does not have receiver speed.

I am a huge Moss fan but in football it is not all about the "deep pass" and we need an intermediate receiver to compliment Moss' deep ball threat or defenses are going to concentrate only on him which is going to take away from some of the big plays that he can possibly make.

Options is the key and at the receiver position we do not have many at this point.

Sorry, but I disagree. We have enough talent at wide receiver. I think we covered that pretty well last year in free agency.

[riggoraider]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Sorry, but I disagree. We have enough talent at wide receiver. I think we covered that pretty well last year in free agency.

LOL...I think that you need to see the numbers that our receivers have put up this year

Just because we paid lots of money for receivers does not mean it was a wise investment. Our receivers are the jokes of the league but as I said in another thread, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

We've got the possession receiver that we need. He wears #47.

As for the small receivers not being big targets, Santana Moss plays the deep ball better than many many (most?) larger receivers.

I don't think a thing needs to be changed with the receivers. Just let them gel with 17. Continuity is key.

I agree here. As much as I would like to see a 6'4 WR I think a full offseason with the same group would help out a ton. Moss and JC are just not on the same page.

[gabe1984]

Originally Posted by riggoraider

Although Cooley is a very good receiving "tight end" he is NOT a receiver nor do he possess receiver skills. He is coming off blocks which limits his abilities and does not have receiver speed.

I am a huge Moss fan but in football it is not all about the "deep pass" and we need an intermediate receiver to compliment Moss' deep ball threat or defenses are going to concentrate only on him which is going to take away from some of the big plays that he can possibly make.

Options is the key and at the receiver position we do not have many at this point.

I disagree with what you are saying. Part of the reason why Moss is so dangerous is his ability to turn short catches into big gains; I think we all saw him do it many times last year and even a few time this year. I don't think of him as just a deep ball guy at all. In addition, I also disagree with you when you say that we do not have many options at receiver. I'm really not sure what you mean by that; Moss, ARE, and Lloyd have loads of talent. I don't think we really need to get a big receiver. Moss is strong for his size, he manages to break tackles and get out of situations where it looks like he's going to get tacked a lot. Look at other receiving groups, our receivers are really not that small.
Lloyd- 6 ft. 192lbs
Moss- 5'10 185lbs
ARE - 5'10 192lbs

Marvin Harrison - 6ft 185
Reggie Wayne - 6ft -198

Chad Johnson - 6'1 192lbs
TJ whosyourmama - 6'1 199lbs

So we are a little small, but what they lack in size they make up for in other skills. I am not totally trying to discount having a big receiver, all of KC's receivers were close to 200lb or more, so maybe Saunders is used to working with big guys, and on the Cardinals LJ weighs 226 and Boldin weighs 223, freakin huge. Plus we used to have a big guy at receiver, his name is Rod Gardner, he didn't do much.

[riggoraider]

Originally Posted by gabe1984

I disagree with what you are saying. Part of the reason why Moss is so dangerous is his ability to turn short catches into big gains; I think we all saw him do it many times last year and even a few time this year. I don't think of him as just a deep ball guy at all. In addition, I also disagree with you when you say that we do not have many options at receiver. I'm really not sure what you mean by that; Moss, ARE, and Lloyd have loads of talent. I don't think we really need to get a big receiver. Moss is strong for his size, he manages to break tackles and get out of situations where it looks like he's going to get tacked a lot. Look at other receiving groups, our receivers are really not that small.
Lloyd- 6 ft. 192lbs
Moss- 5'10 185lbs
ARE - 5'10 192lbs

Marvin Harrison - 6ft 185
Reggie Wayne - 6ft -198

Chad Johnson - 6'1 192lbs
TJ whosyourmama - 6'1 199lbs

So we are a little small, but what they lack in size they make up for in other skills. I am not totally trying to discount having a big receiver, all of KC's receivers were close to 200lb or more, so maybe Saunders is used to working with big guys, and on the Cardinals LJ weighs 226 and Boldin weighs 223, freakin huge. Plus we used to have a big guy at receiver, his name is Rod Gardner, he didn't do much.

Moss is a good receiver but he can not do it by himself. I do not know how you get the idea that, besides Moss that we have anything else at the receiver position. Our receivers are like 27th in the league and would not be that high if our tight end stats were not put in with theirs.

And we had another big guy and his name was Arthur Monk. Remember him?

[freddyg12]

Before we blame the recievers, let's remember that JC is developing on the job. I recall reading that he still throws too late on many routes, waits for recievers to get open & then throws, rather than throwing in their break they way the play is designed. Sometimes recievers are only open for a short window before the play breaks down. That said, our wr's don't seem to do a good job of coming back to the ball when the route is over. I would've expected ARE to get more short passes coming back for the ball.
Unless Loyd shows great improvement next year, I don't see him as being a dependable wr. He'll make a big catch now & then, but doesn't seem to be in tune w/the O most of the time.

[firstdown]

Their size is not the problem its the fact that the coaches pulled Brunell just when he was starting to hit his WR's for a QB with no experence.

[riggoraider]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Their size is not the problem its the fact that the coaches pulled Brunell just when he was starting to hit his WR's for a QB with no experence.

Please take a look at successful passing team receiver mix a bigger receiver is a definite need. I think that pulling Brunell was a mistake also. Some people are riding high on Campbell and knocking Brunell when Brunell was actually having a better season that Campbell is producing for us, which proves to me that beauty IS in the eye of the beholder.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by riggoraider

Please take a look at successful passing team receiver mix a bigger receiver is a definite need. I think that pulling Brunell was a mistake also. Some people are riding high on Campbell and knocking Brunell when Brunell was actually having a better season that Campbell is producing for us, which proves to me that beauty IS in the eye of the beholder.

I was joking about Brunell and he may have been pulled a game or two too early but this is very god experence that JC needs. Its better that he makes the mistakes now when they do not count as much then having him making them next season. Yes he will still have alot to learn next year but every snap this year helps him become a better QB next year. I would say Cooley is our big WR and can be that large target for JC and that is not one of our problems right now. I was trying to watch this week to see if JC was missing open WR's but its hard to tell on TV. I have seen a few he has missed but that is another reason why these games are so important for him to learn. It also gives the coaches film for them to review with him pointing out stuff he missed or thing he could have done better.

[gabe1984]

Originally Posted by riggoraider

Moss is a good receiver but he can not do it by himself. I do not know how you get the idea that, besides Moss that we have anything else at the receiver position. Our receivers are like 27th in the league and would not be that high if our tight end stats were not put in with theirs.

And we had another big guy and his name was Arthur Monk. Remember him?

How I'm getting the idea that we have anything besides Moss at the receiver position is that we are playing with a first year starting quarterback. I believe that once he is more comfortable in the offense he will be able to hit our other receivers more frequently and they will be able to make plays. And yes, I do remember Art Monk. My opinion is that the size of the receiver does not really matter that much and I think that next year Lloyd and ARE will be more used to the offense and will run better routes and produce more.

[riggoraider]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I was joking about Brunell and he may have been pulled a game or two too early but this is very god experence that JC needs. Its better that he makes the mistakes now when they do not count as much then having him making them next season. Yes he will still have alot to learn next year but every snap this year helps him become a better QB next year. I would say Cooley is our big WR and can be that large target for JC and that is not one of our problems right now. I was trying to watch this week to see if JC was missing open WR's but its hard to tell on TV. I have seen a few he has missed but that is another reason why these games are so important for him to learn. It also gives the coaches film for them to review with him pointing out stuff he missed or thing he could have done better.

Being that JC is going to be our QB of the future I really hope that he is just going through growing pains but right now he is reminding me of Andre Ware. I agree that the move to Campbell was a move for the future but it should of been made when we were eliminated from all playoff hopes. The NFC had some awful records this year and with Brunell I think that we would have had more wins than with Campbell and maybe would have made the playoffs because of the improved line play late in the season.

And oh by the way Cooley is not a WR

[riggoraider]

Originally Posted by gabe1984

How I'm getting the idea that we have anything besides Moss at the receiver position is that we are playing with a first year starting quarterback. I believe that once he is more comfortable in the offense he will be able to hit our other receivers more frequently and they will be able to make plays. And yes, I do remember Art Monk. My opinion is that the size of the receiver does not really matter that much and I think that next year Lloyd and ARE will be more used to the offense and will run better routes and produce more.

The size of a receiver defiNITEly matters. Let's hope that Lloyd and ARE produce more next season but ARE is not a natural receiver and Lloyd is not one who has proven himself to be a very good NFL receiver as of yet. A good possession receiver will open up these guys for longer passes and make them more valuable assets to the team as of right now both have been liabilitites.