WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

all his points were right on target,he's saying what 90 percent of us have been saying already,except of course the members of the kool-aid club:FIREdevil:cheeky-sm

Does that 90% include the 60% of the posters on this site who believe this team is headed to the playoffs? Though I freely admit that I am a member of the Kool-Aid Club, any call for a coach to quit when his team has a winning record is simply retarded. You have to admit that you are a member of the "this team sucks" group.

[paulskinsfan]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Does that 90% include the 60% of the posters on this site who believe this team is headed to the playoffs? Though I freely admit that I am a member of the Kool-Aid Club, any call for a coach to quit when his team has a winning record is simply retarded. You have to admit that you are a member of the "this team sucks" group.

I think he's calling for Gibbs to walk away after the season, not now.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by paulskinsfan

I think he's calling for Gibbs to walk away after the season, not now.

Yeah. But, whether he is saying that Gibbs should walk away now or at the end of the season, he is still saying that in Week 9 when we have a winning record. It's simply premature.

[DieHardSkinsFan777]

Originally Posted by paulskinsfan

I think he's calling for Gibbs to walk away after the season, not now.

That makes NO sense. Why would you do that with 9 games to play...?

Who knows how good it could turn out with that much football left. That's just flat out stupidity.

[GusFrerotte]

Gibbs isn't the same Gibbs of 1981-92 guys. The very fact that Saunders is here should tell you that. Gibbs called the plays during his first stint here and had at that time the most prolific offensive machine in the NFL til the Vikings of the mid to late 90's broke all the Skins offensive records. Also you had no FA, no greedy, uneducated morons only after bling, and a salary cap to hinder you back then. Gibbs also had Bobby Beathred to help build his team for him. Gibbs isn't cut out to be team president. It sucks to say th at but it is true. Play calling and clock management have been very poor at times, more akin to a rookie NFL coach than a HOF coach. Injuries and lack of execution aside, we could still be 6-1 now if he didn't throttle back the offense as he has. If Gibbs can't right the ship this season, we need to have him step down and get Cowher or another real coach to takeover. If Gibbs stays his full tenure they will just hand the job to Williams who is not HC material. Are you guys really going to want to wait til Williams gets canned to see a winner in DC again? I think it has been a long enough wait don't you?

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Gibbs isn't the same Gibbs of 1981-92 guys. The very fact that Saunders is here should tell you that. Gibbs called the plays during his first stint here and had at that time the most prolific offensive machine in the NFL til the Vikings of the mid to late 90's broke all the Skins offensive records. Also you had no FA, no greedy, uneducated morons only after bling, and a salary cap to hinder you back then. Gibbs also had Bobby Beathred to help build his team for him. Gibbs isn't cut out to be team president. It sucks to say th at but it is true. Play calling and clock management have been very poor at times, more akin to a rookie NFL coach than a HOF coach. Injuries and lack of execution aside, we could still be 6-1 now if he didn't throttle back the offense as he has. If Gibbs can't right the ship this season, we need to have him step down and get Cowher or another real coach to takeover. If Gibbs stays his full tenure they will just hand the job to Williams who is not HC material. Are you guys really going to want to wait til Williams gets canned to see a winner in DC again? I think it has been a long enough wait don't you?

All of us here view the Redskins from a different perspective mainly because we are for the most part, "die hard fans". There are those however who view them from a more objective standpoint, and do not see the same things we see, or share the same views. Just as we see the team at 4-3 and relatively satisfied with that mark, there are others who say based on the way we have played the games, we could just as easily be 1-6.

I want to think of Shapiro as an objective writer with no personal gripe with either Gibbs or the Redskins. I'm convinced however that when the casual observer watches the way the Redskins play, they come away with a feeling of not always whether they win or lose, but how they played the game.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

Just as we see the team at 4-3 and relatively satisfied with that mark, there are others who say based on the way we have played the games, we could just as easily be 1-6.

And then there are those of us who think we could just as easily be 6-1. Could we be 1-6, sure if a ball here or there didn't bounce our way. But, we could just as easily be 6-1 had a few balls bounced our way against the Packers and Giants.

In the end, it does not matter how we played the game, how we won the game, or how we lost the game. All that matters is whether we won it.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

And then there are those of us who think we could just as easily be 6-1. Could we be 1-6, sure if a ball here or there didn't bounce our way. But, we could just as easily be 6-1 had a few balls bounced our way against the Packers and Giants.

In the end, it does not matter how we played the game, how we won the game, or how we lost the game. All that matters is whether we won it.

It is noteworthy, depending on the viewers perspective that the situation could be looked at either way. I guess it just depends on who's making the interpertation, and how they personally feel about the Redskins.

[Daseal]

In the end, it does not matter how we played the game, how we won the game, or how we lost the game. All that matters is whether we won it.

I disagree. Yes, the final score is what matters. I will never make an apology for a win, or make excuses for a loss. However, if you're not looking at how the team is playing, you're ignoring the problems with this team. Namely that they typically play up or down to their competition, and that is a TERRIBLE trait for a team to have. My issue with the recent team is the inconsistency. I want to know each week if we're a good team or a bad team.

SGG -- He also said he wanted Gibbs to walk away after last season. I think the strength of our opponents should be looked at a bit as far as the record. Our schedule is what it is, but when evaluating your talent, you must look at the teams you're playing.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I disagree. Yes, the final score is what matters. I will never make an apology for a win, or make excuses for a loss. However, if you're not looking at how the team is playing, you're ignoring the problems with this team. Namely that they typically play up or down to their competition, and that is a TERRIBLE trait for a team to have. My issue with the recent team is the inconsistency. I want to know each week if we're a good team or a bad team.

SGG -- He also said he wanted Gibbs to walk away after last season. I think the strength of our opponents should be looked at a bit as far as the record. Our schedule is what it is, but when evaluating your talent, you must look at the teams you're playing.

Again I have my complaints about the team and it's fair to look at how the team won or lost games in trying to determine how they will fare in the remaining games. My only point was that, at the end of the season, all that will matter is how many Ws we have.

I'd be far happier with us winning every game by 1 point in ugly efforts, than to lose every game but to have put up a good show.

[MTK]

I liked his jab at Belichick calling him classless.

[skinsguy]

I think everybody had extremely high expectations of Joe Gibbs when he first came back to D.C. Us older fans had them, because we knew what he brought to this team in his first tenure and what he is capable of. The younger fans had high expectations because of what us older guys had witnessed and they want to witness the same greatness. I think that is the bottom line. We all want to see greatness, and we want to see it right away. After all, we ALL have waited a very long time to see the Redskins back on top in the league. This team has been medicore at best since Joe left us the first time.

Honestly, I will be unashamed in saying that I will support Joe Gibbs, fully, until he decides to step down. He will not leave the team any other way, unless the good Lord decides to take him home. I understand what he is trying so desperately to do. I see that it goes far beyond X's and O's. I understand most of you only want to see the bottom line. I understand that. I want to see this team be great as well. However, I have always been the type of guy who takes a step back and looks at the big picture. I take into consideration every aspect of the game, not just X's and O's. I guess that is why I have always preached patience. Sometimes it's easier to have patience when you're looking at everything from the ground up, instead of just what happens on Sunday.

I see Joe Gibbs trying to build this team from the ground up. I will say, I have been disappointed that we haven't seen this team completely turn the corner yet. Maybe this team doesn't quite have the confidence to win yet? Whether the reason, I do believe it is time for this team to show us that they're a playoff team again. Not only that, but they are a consistent playoff team. I mean honestly, we can sit here and point fingers as to why we're not 6-1 or 7-0 yet. We are what we are right now. And right now, we're 4-3 and have about 9 games left to go in the season. All of those games are winable. I do not see anymore "Patriots" on our schedule.

If by the end of this season we are 6-10, then I will be very disappointed. This team is good enough to win 10 games, and Joe's coaching staff is good enough to lead them to 10 games.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Beems,

The loss to the Patriots was definitely very, very, very ugly. I predicted a 34-17 loss and was shocked by how poorly we played. There is also no dispute that Gibbs II hasn't lived up to the legend that is Gibbs I. But, I'm still happy with 4-3 looking at 5-3.

[MTK]

I agree with SGG that the timing is wrong with this article. And really the article is nothing that we haven't heard over and over going back to 2004. It seems like ever since Gibbs came back whenever times are tough people want to boot him to the curb. Let's revisit this once the season is over and we'll see if this holds any water.

[djnemo65]

It's a well-reasoned, well-written article, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

While Sherrif is absolutely correct that this question doesn't need to be pondered until after the season - hell, the Skins could win out and go to the Superbowl and then we would view things very differently - the main indictment of the article, that Gibbs 2.0 is lacking something on a tactical level, unfortunately has to be seriously considered.

The mark of a great coach in this league is doing less with more - think what Crennel is doing, or Herm Edwards, or Gruden in Tampa this year. Either the Skins aren't as talented as we think or they aren't extracting the most from the talent they have; either way, Gibbs is accountable for that.

I have yet to have seen a game in this second tenure where I felt our offense was superior on a purely strategic level. Sure there have been moments in 2005 where we overpowered people with what was probably superior talent, but when have we had a win where we beat a better team just by being better prepared than them? Where is that signature upset? This weekend was a chance to show, even if we can't beat the Pats, we can play with them and we were utterly humiliated. Not only was their talent superior but we weren't prepared and didn't adjust to anything they were doing.

Did anyone hear Doc's interview of Campbell this week on his radio show? SportsTalk 980 - Washington, DC. I was stunned by the ferocity with which Doc hammered Jason, even though I had to agree with him, particularily when Doc questioned him on their strategy for attacking Asante Samuel. Why no adjustments? Why no change in approach when the game was getting out of hand?

I'm still drinking the Kool-Aid, and I still think we are going to the playoffs. But the larger issue here, that we are not maximizing our talent and never out-strategizing our opponents, is unfortunately carrying a lot of merit.

4-3 is fine. 5-3 will be great. The playoffs will be exciting. But 3 1/2 years into a Superbowl rebuilding project, with unlimited resources and unlimited support, is that enough?