Gibbs leaving? Not a chance

[Daseal]

Gtripp, no doubt Gibbs has brought a ton in the way of players to the team. I feel that he has attempted, for the most part, to try to put a win now team in place with expensive veteran players over the draft, but hasn't totally handcuffed us like before. If Gibbs were to step into a President role where he played a part in the player acquisition/scouting/whatever department, I would be thrilled with the move. Often coaches doing both player management and team management don't excel at both, each job is a more than full-time position and I don't feel as if one person can contribute enough to doing both.

My gripe certainly isn't with the talent on this team, my problem is with the way the team reacts. I keep hearing players aren't executing, and that's true. However, when players not executing becomes the rule, not the exception, much of that blame has to go somewhere on the coaches for not fixing the problems.

If you interpreted my post to be an "I'm smarter than you" I apologize. It wasn't meant that way. I don't think many other members can't see Gibbs shortcomings, I think they refuse to. They're attached to the Gibbs they saw in the 80's and can't fathom that the NFL is too different today for him to coach at a top notch level.

First off, the season is not over yet, so you can't judge Gibbs on his 4th year. Second, show me any coach with a QB with 1 year under his belt that has been a winner? Brady& Rothlisberger are the only ones I can think off. Young, The Mannings, Lineart, Cluter, Smith, etc. what did they do with one year under belt? Did they go to the playoffs or SB? PATIENCE will pay off, watch Campbell this weekend and the rest of the year, then you can judge.

First of all, from what I understand, most NFL coaches get three years to get their players, systems, etc in place before really getting on the hot seat. Most coaches that end their 3rd season with one of the highest payrolls in the NFL and a 5-11 record get shown the door. The NFL doesn't allow for team building like it did before free agency. Secondly, I can judge Gibbs on the games I've seen this year. Is the year over, no. Could he shock me, possibly. However, up until this point we've been a wildly inconsistent team that plays up and down to competition, we do our best to keep our opponents close (sans Detroit), we lose to teams we should beat (see Giants/Eagles), and we barely squeak out wins against teams we should crush (see Jets/Dolphins). That is not a good sign for things to come.

My question to you, how many games has Campbell lost us? I'd say 0. They wait until there's 5 minutes left in the 4th to let him go, by that point hes forcing throws, etc. You could say the Dallas game, but that was a rare loss I can pin on the defense. Springs and PP getting worked hard by TO all day long. I don't feel Campbell has made much of an impact either for or against the teams record. I'll say this much, we have a better record and chance with him than Brunell or Collins in there.

Why do people say things Like "I'm about done with Joe" or "I've had it with Joe". Are you going to switch teams if they don't hire a new coach? Other than that possibility, which could hardly be characterized as a tragedy, it doesn't really matter what you want.

You're right, there's nothing fans can do. Just wait if he's around for another year and if we have a miserable season. The chants of Joe must go will be loud late in the year for our remaining home games. It really doesn't matter what I want, but every week more and more Redskins fans are giving up on the Gibbs experience and marking it up as another coaching failure to follow Spurrier, Norv, et al. The fans want production regardless of who the coach is, the NFL is about winning. While I myself can't do anything, a large group of fans can.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I don't expect to change anyones opinion on Joe Gibbs as they won't change mine. History will remember his 2nd stint as coach of the Washington Redskins as a failure. That's how I feel and it would take a hell of a run to change that.

Here's a question for you, if Snyder fired Gibbs, would you still support the team fully? I know it's hypothetical and would never happened. But you seem so sure that no one can impact what the club does and you just have to suck it up and support the skins through thick and thin. Would you be happy with him being kicked to the curb, or would you voice your concern?

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Daseal

First of all, from what I understand, most NFL coaches get three years to get their players, systems, etc in place before really getting on the hot seat. Most coaches that end their 3rd season with one of the highest payrolls in the NFL and a 5-11 record get shown the door.

You are right about that, with the exception that most or none of those coaches have a bust in Canton. Also, when Gibbs came in he replaced Ramsey and had to start all over again with a young QB, that takes time. He inherited a salary cap mess that kind of handcuffed him to what he can/cannot do. Blame Danny and Vinny for that mess.

[djnemo65]

I love how Snyder criticizes people for thinking they can understand a coach's motives, using Spurrier's contract as an example, then goes on to do exactly that, opining about something which he knows nothing of...Gibbs's future plans.

What a crapola op-ed.

[skinsguy]

Exactly who in 2004 could've put together any reasonable successful team after what Spurrier and the clan did to this team? There is no fan of this team that didn't want to see this team succeed right away. Yet, Gibbs is criticized for trying to find players who could step in and make an immediate impact while finding players who could build a bright future for this team. This is exactly what Gibbs said he wanted to do when he came to Washington. This is exactly what he has tried to do, and with some success, has done so. People yell and scream about wanting a young coach, yet they don't see that the young coaches in the league who are successful have inherited really good teams. Gibbs inherited a complete mess. I'd rather have a hall of fame coach who knows how to be successful trying to figure this mess out, rather than a guy with no head coaching experience on this level at all.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Exactly who in 2004 could've put together any reasonable successful team after what Spurrier and the clan did to this team? There is no fan of this team that didn't want to see this team succeed right away. Yet, Gibbs is criticized for trying to find players who could step in and make an immediate impact while finding players who could build a bright future for this team. This is exactly what Gibbs said he wanted to do when he came to Washington. This is exactly what he has tried to do, and with some success, has done so. People yell and scream about wanting a young coach, yet they don't see that the young coaches in the league who are successful have inherited really good teams. Gibbs inherited a complete mess. I'd rather have a hall of fame coach who knows how to be successful trying to figure this mess out, rather than a guy with no head coaching experience on this level at all.

Another perfect example is the Cowboys. This would have been Parcells 5th year and look what they have accomplished. It took 5 years, 2 HOF coaches can't be wrong? Can they? If not this year, wait till next year, people will be crowning Gibbs as the best coach ever!!!

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Another perfect example is the Cowboys. This would have been Parcells 5th year and look what they have accomplished. It took 5 years, 2 HOF coaches can't be wrong? Can they? If not this year, wait till next year, people will be crowning Gibbs as the best coach ever!!!

Exactly. People are too narrow minded to see that it was Parcells who built this current Cowboys team. And, Wade Phillips has prior head coaching experience, not to mention NFL coaching is in his family. Also to mention, Wade Phillips is no spring chicken either.

[MTRedskinsFan]

I think the article was pure speculation. If, god forbid, we lose 5 of the next 6 games anything would be, and should be, possible at the coaching level.

But there's a bigger picture here too. Many have pointed to the team Parcell's built; however, there is a big difference in garnering talent and coaching it. Parcell's obviously has a good eye for talent, as does coach Gibbs, but in both their most recent tenure's the week to week coaching lacked something. Parcell's didn't inspire much in his guys, our guys haven't looked too inspired or disciplined either. Like somebody said, lousy execution goes beyond individual players when it becomes so habitual. Marty is probably an even better example of a great talentfinder who lacks something week to week. In SD he put together the most talented team in football last year IMO but they could not finish.

That said, I would be happy to see Gibbs continue as THE front office guy for us next year and beyond, but unless something special happens in the next 6 weeks I will have a hard time understanding how folks would want to see another year of current situation.

[DynamiteRave]

I definitely think Gibbs will continue coaching until the end of his contract.

And then.. We'll need a new coach because Gibbs will be pushing 70 and come on, his heart can't take all the stress! I bet Saunders will be the next coach. I wonder how well that'd work.

[bedlamVR]

Err Marty had exactly no say over player acquisition in SD . A J Smith built the team then ran Marty out of town and gave the keys over to a bafoooooon ....you want a poster boy for not hiring a GM look no further than the chargers front office

Gibbs teams have been missing something usually a full roster ... in case you didn't realize the guy lining up next to our back up RG for much of the game last week was our third string back up UDFA LT . All teams have injuries but if there is one thing to be improved on is conditioning to restrict the numbers of these things .

In 2004 Gibbs came back to a gutted team that had had its heart ripped out . Samuels was ready to walk, doubting himslf our pro bowl CB ( who looks toasty warm in Denver) had walked as had Davis and he not only had to try and rebuild but he had very little to do it with ... people tend to forget under Spurrier we had about 3 picks a year and we never gave them up for good players, people like Chad Morton, Trung Candate, Lovernious Coles, Jermaine Haley, Larry Moore and David Loverne and Matt Bowen ....

In 2005 we made it to the playoffs knocking off three back to bak divisional games in the process then in 2006 things went badly wrong - every team has injuries but the 2006 casualty list was laughable .

[sportscurmudgeon]

Let's try to look at this the way Mr. Spock would look at it - - logically.

Gibbs leaves only one of three ways: 1. Danny Boy fires him. 2. He steps down. 3. He dies or is kidnapped by aliens or gets caught up in some kind of monstrous government plot such that even Jack Bauer can't save him.

Let's rule out #3, OK?

Will Danny Boy fire Joe Gibbs? I put the probability of that at about .01% or one chance in ten-thousand. Snyder knows that Gibbs makes money for the Redskins and has a large loyal following amongst Skins' fans. Snyder is most unlikely to drop the hammer on him now. Despite the fan-boy rhetoric around here that all Danny Boy wants is to win, I think he's just really happy to be making a ton of money with the franchise at the moment. If they win big, that's gravy to him - - because then he'll make even more money.

Will Gibbs step down? Let me answer that question with a question. Why should he? He stands to make over $5M next year to be a CEO and watch a horde of other people coach the football team. What he has to do to put that $5M - plus in the bank is to hold two news conferences a week and wear a headset on the sidelines for about three and a half hours 16 times next year. If you had a job like that for $5M, would you "step down"?

As Mr. Spock would say, "That's illogical..."

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Here's a question for you, if Snyder fired Gibbs, would you still support the team fully? I know it's hypothetical and would never happened. But you seem so sure that no one can impact what the club does and you just have to suck it up and support the skins through thick and thin. Would you be happy with him being kicked to the curb, or would you voice your concern?

My support for the Redskins trancends personalities - even in the case of Gibbs. And even in the case of Snyder who has definitely pushed the limits of patience. I guess I find the timing of all this unrest a little odd. Last year when there was Super Bowl talk, the team went 5 -11 and I don't remember much noise of this kind. This year, the expectations were much lower and people want a new coach. It strikes me as unreasonable.

Snyder can have anyone he wants as Coach and I won't complain - that's his prerogative. I also think that Gibbs still has something left and I look forward to the next few weeks. I still think we might have one more game left at Texas Stadium.

[GTripp0012]

Redskin QB DVOA in the Gibbs era:

2007 Campbell-15.9% Rank: 18
2006 Brunell-13.1% Rank: 12
2005 Brunell-10.1% Rank: 15
2004 Ramsey- (-)12.4% Rank: 30

Seems like there is a correlation between the longer a guy plays for Gibbs, and his statsitical output. Of course, I'm sure there's a postitive correlation between playing in the league longer and improving, so I'm not sure how much we can tell from this. Campbell is having the best year for a Redskin QB in the Gibbs era.

Anyway, good post Daseal, it looks like you thought through your opinion and your case is significantly stronger. I personally think the team reacts better to most in terms of adversity, but on that point I'm cool with agreeing to disagree.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Here's a question for you, if Snyder fired Gibbs, would you still support the team fully?

Yes of course. I am a fan of the Washington Redskins. Although I am a fan because of Joe Gibbs, I also became a fan because of John Riggins, Joe Theismann, Art Monk, Gary Clark, Ricky Sanders, etc. All of those guys are retired now, but yet I am still a Redskins fan. There have been plenty of bad decisions Snyder has made since he bought the team, but those decisions haven't stopped me from being a Redskins fan.

Originally Posted by Daseal

I know it's hypothetical and would never happened. But you seem so sure that no one can impact what the club does and you just have to suck it up and support the skins through thick and thin. Would you be happy with him being kicked to the curb, or would you voice your concern?

I'm not sure what you're saying when you say "seem so sure that no one can impact what the club does". Are you implying that some of us are sure that no one else can make as much of an impact on the club as what Joe Gibbs has? If this is the case, then we'd have to look at the coaches who were available before the '04 season and see which ones have had experience with rebuilding a team from the mess the Redskins were in, into a team that could be a playoff team and eventually a SB contender year in and year out. I don't know of anybody who was available at that time right off the bat, but certainly Joe Gibbs was available at that point who could get it done. I realize some people's mentality is, "why don't we give a young coach a chance." My response is, we have already went through a decade + giving unproven guys an opportunity to coach this team into greatness. Besides Gibbs, Marty was the only other coach who could probably make this team great again, and he got fired after one season. Like I've stated before, all of us, you included, want the Redskins to start winning now. With that fact in place. we all know that Joe Gibbs was the only logical choice at the time when we needed to replace Spurrier.

[htownskinfan]

I have not been happy with gibbs this 2nd go round,the way the team panics in pressure situations and the terrible clock management{which is inexcusable for a hof coach} are just one of the many reasons,even giants fans are calling for gibbs to retire,
New York Giants Message Boards - Another good player gone...

"The skins are getting older, not younger. They needed Mix more than we did for this reason. But the problem with the Skins is not it's team so much as it is their HC. As much respect as I have for Gibbs, he's a corpse and should retire. He has about as much life as is needed to drain that team of what energy they have left. I know this post is about Mix, but at the same time, I don't think the Skins will have a winning club until Gibbs retires. "

and i think the general consensus around the country is the same thing,having said all that I still love gibbs and think he deserves to finish out his contract,the seasons not over and maybe the old dog can learn some new tricks

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

I have not been happy with gibbs this 2nd go round,the way the team panics in pressure situations and the terrible clock management{which is inexcusable for a hof coach} are just one of the many reasons,even giants fans are calling for gibbs to retire,
New York Giants Message Boards - Another good player gone...

"The skins are getting older, not younger. They needed Mix more than we did for this reason. But the problem with the Skins is not it's team so much as it is their HC. As much respect as I have for Gibbs, he's a corpse and should retire. He has about as much life as is needed to drain that team of what energy they have left. I know this post is about Mix, but at the same time, I don't think the Skins will have a winning club until Gibbs retires. "

and i think the general consensus around the country is the same thing,having said all that I still love gibbs and think he deserves to finish out his contract,the seasons not over and maybe the old dog can learn some new tricks

Oh, well since the Giants fans think he should retire, that changes everything.* BTW, everybody, everywhere is getting older and not younger.

*sarcasm