Collins' INT/Moss' "give up"

[SmootSmack]

How do you know which route he was supposed to run?

Anyhow, I think both Moss and Gibbs said Moss lost the ball in the lights. I'd have to see it again though.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How do you know which route he was supposed to run?

Anyhow, I think both Moss and Gibbs said Moss lost the ball in the lights. I'd have to see it again though.

Well Moss runs deep, cuts in, and stops running. In the meantime the ball goes out and a bit farther.

To me that is a post corner.

[RISkinsFan]

Moss had already broke his stride before the ball was even thrown. He didn't think the ball was coming his way. By the time he did see the ball it was too late. But like I said, that play goes against the team and not just one guy.

[NinjaLink]

Why are you guys bashing on Todd Collins... The man started and finished 4-1. He helped us get into the playoffs. No need to bash him because of one game. Obviously, no one is perfect.

[jamf]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Ok so everyone seems to think Moss gave up on that play. And you guys listened to the announcer Chris Collinsworthless give worthless analysis once again. he said that Moss gave up because the DB didnt bit on his post corner route.

This is partially true, Moss stopped running bc the DB didn't "bite", but why did the DB not bite?

Moss Stopped Running! I don't care what play was called or how bad a throw it was, He gave up on the play! I love Santana, He is on my avatar. But the fact is he clearly didn't complete his route.

In the NFL, If you wait till the WR gets open, You've waited too long. You have to throw to spots.

The playcall:
In my opinion it was a great play call. We had our most explosive offensive weapon with one on one coverage. Collins threw a couple of jump balls up to Santana the previous 4 games and no one complained because santana made the play. In the Vikings game, Collins lobbed a ball to santana, Fortunately Santana came down with it for a TD.

A deep pass to Santana Moss with one on one coverage, No deep safety? I will take that play any day of the week and twice on sundays. More often than not, Santana is going to come down with it or draw a Pass interference penalty.

FYI, After the game, Santana said in an interview that he lost the ball in the lights.

[MTK]

Collins had shown the ability to hit the deep balls. I liked the aggressive nature of the call.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess.

Keep pounding and people say you are too conservative. Take some shots and people say you panicked.

[DynamiteRave]

I thought I heard on Comcast that Moss said he stopped running because when he looked back he couldn't find the ball.

Anyway, I don't blame TC for that interception at all. Like I said in another thread he put it up there and Moss stopped the route for the DB not biting and losing track of the ball, that's all on Moss not TC. If he hadn't of stopped running I think Moss would've had at least a 50/50 chance of catching that pass.

[#56fanatic]

If I had to place blame, I would go with Moss. He stopped running. he was the primary receiver on that play. you never give up your route, isn't that the first thing you learn as a WR?? Collins put the ball up for him to make a play. that is what you would expect moss to do, he does it all the time. the fact he didn't see the ball I can take, the fact he stopped running i can't. plus the fact he didn't seem to worried about making a tackle also irkes me bit, but I guess the whole offense kinda let that one go.

Look, it was a bad play. To blame one person on that play is crazy. There were multiple things on that play that was not good. Todd had to make the throw early because the line couldn't protect - moss didn't make a play on the ball - no one on offense seemed to be able to catch the DB. I dont think you can blame the staff either. I think they called a relatively good game. Defensively, not sure why we went conservative on the series after the missed FG because we had been playing good pressure D with a cover 1 / man scheme.

we got beat, a game that we had a lead in the 4th quarter. Suprised..not really. we have blown so many games this year in the same situation. I guess no one saw it coming with the 4 or 5 weeks of stellar play.

good season, not great, but we'll fight our guts our next year.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Ok so everyone seems to think Moss gave up on that play. And you guys listened to the announcer Chris Collinsworthless give worthless analysis once again. he said that Moss gave up because the DB didnt bit on his post corner route.

This is partially true, Moss stopped running bc the DB didn't "bite", but why did the DB not bite? That is because Todd and Santana were on sync that play. Todd threw the ball out before Santana made his cuts.

So by the time Moss looked up the DB keyed in on the throw not because he knew where the ball was gonna go preroute or something.

Todd made a poor throw way too early in Santana's route. I think this is purely Todd's fault. Those with DVR I urge to go back, mute the sound, and look at the play.

The major problem I have with Moss on this play is he did not play until the whistle blew. He gave up. Regardless of where you think the ball is or is going, or that Todd made a poor throw, you play until the whistle blows.
If Moss had tried to defend the interception or even committed offensive pass interference and ran over the DB before he caught it, that would have been a better outcome than an interception returned for a TD. Instead Moss decided to give up on the play and start day dreaming, he allowed another DB that was paying attention to get between him and the guy that ran it in for the TD. Moss had nobody between him and the DB before the DB caught the int., but since Moss had something more important to do than see where the ball was thrown, IMO the TD return was Moss' fault.

[sandtrapjack]

It looked to me that Santana thought the pass went out of bounds and that is why he held up. He had is back to where the ball was going, but I have a feeling he thought it carried out of bounds.

You will notice the look of surprise by his reaction when he turned around and saw what had really happened.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

It looked to me that Santana thought the pass went out of bounds and that is why he held up. He had is back to where the ball was going, but I have a feeling he thought it carried out of bounds.

You will notice the look of surprise by his reaction when he turned around and saw what had really happened.

I have to agree with you on this one. Moss may make mistakes from time to time but him giving up on a play has never been an issue with him.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

It looked to me that Santana thought the pass went out of bounds and that is why he held up. He had is back to where the ball was going, but I have a feeling he thought it carried out of bounds.

You will notice the look of surprise by his reaction when he turned around and saw what had really happened.

It does not take much effort to turn your head and look to see of the ball did go out of bounds. I guess he was too busy.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

It looked to me that Santana thought the pass went out of bounds and that is why he held up. He had is back to where the ball was going, but I have a feeling he thought it carried out of bounds.

You will notice the look of surprise by his reaction when he turned around and saw what had really happened.

That was what I thought happened. Plus, since the throw was into the wind it may have looked like it was going to sail out of bounds until it just sort of dropped, which seems to happen on a lot of punts.
Actually, isn't that pretty much what happened on the kick that Burleson (sp?) forgot to field?

[skinsguy]

In my personal opinion, I just believe Moss stopped on the play and Collins shouldn't have thrown the pass. In another words, Collins was supposed to have thrown the pass if it looked as if Trufant had bit on Moss's double move. Since he obviously didn't bite on the move, Collins wasn't supposed to have thrown in that direction. But, since Collins did throw the ball, Moss should've turned into a defender and tried his best to knock the ball away from the DB. My question is, if Moss lost the ball in the lights, wouldn't the DB have also lost the ball in the lights? It just looked like to me it was a little bit of Collins and Moss's fault. Like someone else mentioned, it was also the rest of the 11 guys fault by allowing the DB to scamper 78 yards for a TD.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Lots of debate here on who shoulda done whatever when I think the REAL question should be whether or not Moss "gave up" on the play or if he actually "quit".

Oh, and that second INT returned for a TD happened with a Seahawk walking into the end zone with not a white jersey anywhere to be seen other than Collins trying to chase down the play. Was that a "give up" or a "quit"?

Each and every one of the Redskins on the field for those two plays did not earn their game checks.