Dan Snyder losing respectability?

[SmootSmack]

I think people are making way too big a deal out of the whole coordinators hired before the coach. What about all the players that are here before the coach, should we just cut the whole team so the coach can come in and pick everyone he wants?

Secondly, so what if Spags and Mora went on to more lucrative deals elsewhere? Gregg Williams turned down interview opportunities with other teams and signed an extension with us back in 2006. Does that mean the teams looking for coaches had owners who were "losing respectability"

And Bill Cowher and Pete Carroll want complete control (especially Carroll), it has nothing to do with "this front office structure." It has to do with any team that isn't going to give his head coach complete say. But that shouldn't be seen as a knock on the Redskins.

Anyway, as I've said before, people want to hate on the Redskins now and the fans want to give up. Fine, let them. It's about getting things done between September and hopefully February. It's about winning and "impressing the fans" then. Now? The team just has to do what it feels right to put the team in a strong position come Fall. If fans want to bitch and moan about it, so what? F them. Just have a plan and stick to it

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Anyway, as I've said before, people want to hate on the Redskins now and the fans want to give up. Fine, let them. It's about getting things done between September and hopefully February. It's about winning and "impressing the fans" then. Now? The team just has to do what it feels right to put the team in a strong position come Fall. If fans want to bitch and moan about it, so what? F them. Just have a plan and stick to it

You don't find that Snyder has a hard time sticking to a plan? With the one and done that Schottenheimer had and making adjustments to what Gibbs was trying to leave in place.

That's what makes it so frustrating to be apart of the Skins is the constant change of direction. I like sticking to a plan when it seems conceived by an informed body. I thought Gibbs was informed on how to build stability in an organization, I guess Snyder thinks otherwise. Looks like we'll have to wait another four years to find out.

[SC Skins Fan]

I haven't always been a huge Snyder supporter, but I was a bit miffed when I read that from JLC. Mind you, this is the same JLC whose Redskins Insider Blog was referred to by Peter King (no Snyder lover) as "decidedly anti-Snyder". He asks how you can spin it any other way than the fact that the Skins head coaching position is way under-valued. I don't see it myself.

I might be wrong, but from all I've seen I haven't gotten the impression that either Mora or Spagnuolo were actually offered the job. Maybe they did, but it's not like either guy really went back to unattractive situations anyway (Mora will officially be the head coach - is in his contract so no Williams type situation - of the Seahawks next year and Spagnuolo gets $2 million to coach a good defense with lots of young talent). I don't understand how everyone thinks that Fassel represents the same old Snyder. He's not the flashy pick guys, its different than Marty or Steve or Joe. Now, if he had landed Spagnuolo or even gotten Mariucci (I guess still within the realm of the possible) then I'd say it was old Snyder. Fassel represents a departure in my mind. Plus, it's HIS STAFF that is in place, so if Fassel comes in then hiring the coordinators first actually makes sense.

Some people whine about the coordinators being hired, but if Fassel comes in that makes sense. People say its the same old Snyder looking for change for change sake, but I contend that Fassel represents something different (and actually the guys people loved, Spagnuolo and Mariucci, represented the old ways). I don't get the renewed Snyder bashing. I've actually come around on the whole thing.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

You don't find that Snyder has a hard time sticking to a plan? With the one and done that Schottenheimer had and making adjustments to what Gibbs was trying to leave in place.

That's what makes it so frustrating to be apart of the Skins is the constant change of direction. I like sticking to a plan when it seems conceived by an informed body. I thought Gibbs was informed on how to build stability in an organization, I guess Snyder thinks otherwise. Looks like we'll have to wait another four years to find out.

Let's evaluate:

He bought the team in '99 and inherited a rather subpar coach in terms of record and respect. He also inherited a GM that had in all reality done nothing other than win a SB with a HOF coach and a team built by a different GM. To complicate the issue Casserly and Turner didn't work well together. Snyder is on record as saying that when he got the team he HAD to make a change because of the relationship issues between Charllie and Norv. Due to the timing he could only get rid of Casserly so he did. He thinks that was a mistake but he had no choice.

Then Norv goes on to take a decent team and do an average job with it. He loses the team essentially and again Snyder feels forced to do something so he cans Turner mid-season.

Two moves that were probably mistakes at the time but at least were born out of real problems.

Then he goes outside he comfort zone and brings in someone to run the whole deal. Marty goes forth and loses his first 5 games after gutting the team. He does win 8 of 11 to close out but in the end this isn't the model than Snyder is comfortable with. Again he gets rid of a staff member because it didn't fit what he wanted to do.

He brings in SPurrier who was rather regarded as a shoe-in to be a great coach. But Spurrier doesn't have a lot of talent nor does he have the drive to be an NFL coach. He equits when Snyder was prepared to keep him on give it another go.

Then Gibbs comes in and the situation is probably perfect for Snyder. He has a strong coach with lots fo respect who will also work WITH Snyder and his guys to build an orginzation. But GIbbs resigns amid family issues and here we are.

So sticking to a plan? I think in the beginning he had no plan. Then he figured one out and didn't like it. Since then he hasn't giving up on anything.

[vavajan]

My far reaching theory is that he and Cerrato are holding choice till they can work through the draft themselves and then hire the coach to coach the team. Oh coach along with Dan and Vinny's assistants as well.

I'm all for a Redskin Fan burn out in front of offices to revolt against what he has not done and will do if he hires rehash coaches.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by vavajan

My far reaching theory is that he and Cerrato are holding choice till they can work through the draft themselves and then hire the coach to coach the team. Oh coach along with Dan and Vinny's assistants as well.

I'm all for a Redskin Fan burn out in front of offices to revolt against what he has not done and will do if he hires rehash coaches.

Um yeah that is pretty far out there.

Doing that would be a complete disaster. It won't happen.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think people are making way too big a deal out of the whole coordinators hired before the coach. What about all the players that are here before the coach, should we just cut the whole team so the coach can come in and pick everyone he wants?

Secondly, so what if Spags and Mora went on to more lucrative deals elsewhere? Gregg Williams turned down interview opportunities with other teams and signed an extension with us back in 2006. Does that mean the teams looking for coaches had owners who were "losing respectability"

And Bill Cowher and Pete Carroll want complete control (especially Carroll), it has nothing to do with "this front office structure." It has to do with any team that isn't going to give his head coach complete say. But that shouldn't be seen as a knock on the Redskins.

Anyway, as I've said before, people want to hate on the Redskins now and the fans want to give up. Fine, let them. It's about getting things done between September and hopefully February. It's about winning and "impressing the fans" then. Now? The team just has to do what it feels right to put the team in a strong position come Fall. If fans want to bitch and moan about it, so what? F them. Just have a plan and stick to it

love your optimism,wish I had it,to me sally jenkins was right on in most of what she said,and it looks like spag took her advice
right now were the laughingstock of the nfl,maybe even worse than the raiders,my local nfl columnist is tearing us up{and his wife is a huge redskin fan} the columnist in other cities are tearing us up,and rightfully so
And how can you say "fuck the fans" ? what are you? Are you a fan? I know you are,so what does that mean when you say fk the fans? does that mean fk you?
And what is this great plan? so far the only plan snyder has had that was worth a shit was rehiring gibbs,which didnt quite work out as good as we had hoped,so far none of snyders plans have worked out the way anyone had hoped,so why should we believe in him now? Right now 99 percent of redskin nation,IMO,thinks snyder doesnt have a clue,maybe he will get lucky and end up hiring a coach that can pull this team together,and i sincerely hope he does,I just cant see it happenning,any coach he hires is going to be another one of his puppets,even Cowher.If somehow he does manage to hire cowher hes still his puppet,at least for 1 yr till cowher can hire people he wants here.
Till dannyboy hires a qaulified gm and stays the hell out of the way I cant see us gaining any respectability,unless of course we win,winning cures all ills

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

love your optimism,wish I had it,to me sally jenkins was right on in most of what she said,and it looks like spag took her advice
right now were the laughingstock of the nfl,maybe even worse than the raiders,my local nfl columnist is tearing us up{and his wife is a huge redskin fan} the columnist in other cities are tearing us up,and rightfully so
And how can you say "fuck the fans" ? what are you? Are you a fan? I know you are,so what does that mean when you say fk the fans? does that mean fk you?
And what is this great plan? so far the only plan snyder has had that was worth a shit was rehiring gibbs,which didnt quite work out as good as we had hoped,so far none of snyders plans have worked out the way anyone had hoped,so why should we believe in him now? Right now 99 percent of redskin nation,IMO,thinks snyder doesnt have a clue,maybe he will get lucky and end up hiring a coach that can pull this team together,and i sincerely hope he does,I just cant see it happenning,any coach he hires is going to be another one of his puppets,even Cowher.If somehow he does manage to hire cowher hes still his puppet,at least for 1 yr till cowher can hire people he wants here.
Till dannyboy hires a qaulified gm and stays the hell out of the way I cant see us gaining any respectability,unless of course we win,winning cures all ills

Yeah, I'm a fan. But I don't believe in getting all upset based on speculation of who may or may not be the head coach. Fans that are all "Season's over. 8-8 at best" All because of some rumors in January? Yeah, fuck them. Get a fucking life. If you want to be upset when we're 1-4 and have no offensive gameplan that's one thing, but all this "jump off a bridge" mentality now is, to me, pathetic. Look, I know people don't like it when I say it but I' truly believe that if we are indeed the laughingstock of the league-which I don't agree with-it's due in large part to the fact that the majority of Redskins fans have no clue and have no patience. Much less than for most other teams.

People say he has no clue, but they themselves really have no clue why they are saying that. They named coordinators before they chose a head coach so he has no clue? Never mind that other teams have picked coaches before the head coach. He hasn't hired a General Manager so he has no clue? How many people have really paid attention to the team's scouting department and all the strong work Scott Campbell has done in building the team over the past several years? And now he's being rewarded for it. The whole coaching search? Assumptions all over the place. And then people turning it into "Well Snyder said..." NO. Snyder never said anything. It's just that people want to assume, they want to speculate. They insist on the Redskins having patience, but refuse to have any themselves.

And where things get dangerous, as I've also said before, is when Snyder forgets that he is no longer just a fan and adopts that same desperate mentality. But I think in recent years he has fully realized that he is the owner, not just some fan, and has acted as such.

And look I'm not happy with the results on the field overall the past several years. I want us to win as often and as much as anyone else here, but I also realize that it's a marathon not a sprint, and that it's ridiculous to think that 31 teams are in better shape than we are.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

And look I'm not happy with the results on the field overall the past several years. I want us to win as often and as much as anyone else here, but I also realize that it's a marathon not a sprint, and that it's ridiculous to think that 31 teams are in better shape than we are.

well, we're picking at 21, so we're worse than about 11 teams... not too bad, but with the potential downgrade in coaching staff and the massive changes on offense, it's hard to see the team grasping it immediately, and, in the short term, we're going to have at least one adjustment season before we can see real results.

FA and the draft can help bump the talent level to compensate though, and you're right when you say it's too early to tell, but so far, things aren't as promising as they could have (easily) been.

who knows, maybe fassel actually turns out to be a great coach. I don't have any evidence of that, but in two years we'll know either way for sure.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

FA and the draft can help bump the talent level to compensate though, and you're right when you say it's too early to tell, but so far, things aren't as promising as they could have (easily) been.

That's the key here. If they screw up this free agency and draft season, (and you/me/Smootsmack among others will have a good idea right off the bat), then we will have a legitimate beef that this FO structure isn't working. Until then, we're just going to have to assume that they have a plan.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Yeah, I'm a fan. But I don't believe in getting all upset based on speculation of who may or may not be the head coach. Fans that are all "Season's over. 8-8 at best" All because of some rumors in January? Yeah, fuck them. Get a fucking life. If you want to be upset when we're 1-4 and have no offensive gameplan that's one thing, but all this "jump off a bridge" mentality now is, to me, pathetic. Look, I know people don't like it when I say it but I' truly believe that if we are indeed the laughingstock of the league-which I don't agree with-it's due in large part to the fact that the majority of Redskins fans have no clue and have no patience. Much less than for most other teams.

People say he has no clue, but they themselves really have no clue why they are saying that. They named coordinators before they chose a head coach so he has no clue? Never mind that other teams have picked coaches before the head coach. He hasn't hired a General Manager so he has no clue? How many people have really paid attention to the team's scouting department and all the strong work Scott Campbell has done in building the team over the past several years? And now he's being rewarded for it. The whole coaching search? Assumptions all over the place. And then people turning it into "Well Snyder said..." NO. Snyder never said anything. It's just that people want to assume, they want to speculate. They insist on the Redskins having patience, but refuse to have any themselves.

And where things get dangerous, as I've also said before, is when Snyder forgets that he is no longer just a fan and adopts that same desperate mentality. But I think in recent years he has fully realized that he is the owner, not just some fan, and has acted as such.

And look I'm not happy with the results on the field overall the past several years. I want us to win as often and as much as anyone else here, but I also realize that it's a marathon not a sprint, and that it's ridiculous to think that 31 teams are in better shape than we are.

first off,no one would say seasons over-8-8 at best because of speculation in january,they say that when were 5-7 and our coach is calling wrong timeouts and our best player was just murdered
2nd off,were not considered laughing stocks because of redskin fans showing no patience,its because of ownership and front office,that statement couldnt be further from the truth
3rd-so what if other teams have hired other coaches before the head coach,that doesnt make it a smart move
4th-never said 31 other teams are better off than us,I dont believe that,but right now 31 other teams look like they know what the hell they are doing{with the exception of the raiders,and thats a maybe}
5th-in recent yrs he did seem to have that mentality,but only the gibbs yrs,before that,no,after that,another no

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

first off,no one would say seasons over-8-8 at best because of speculation in january,they say that when were 5-7 and our coach is calling wrong timeouts and our best player was just murdered
2nd off,were not considered laughing stocks because of redskin fans showing no patience,its because of ownership and front office,that statement couldnt be further from the truth
3rd-so what if other teams have hired other coaches before the head coach,that doesnt make it a smart move
4th-never said 31 other teams are better off than us,I dont believe that,but right now 31 other teams look like they know what the hell they are doing{with the exception of the raiders,and thats a maybe}
5th-in recent yrs he did seem to have that mentality,but only the gibbs yrs,before that,no,after that,another no

1. People all over this board have been saying season's over before it even starts (here's just one example: http://www.redskinswarpath.com/418658-post1.html). To be fair though, their opinions should be given no thought but they are posting on Redskins message boards representing Redskins fans to everyone.

2. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

3. See #2

4. Why do you think other teams know what they're doing? What proof do you have that teams like the Falcons and Ravens know what they're doing?

5. Another no after the Gibbs years? Based on what?

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Look, I know people don't like it when I say it but I' truly believe that if we are indeed the laughingstock of the league-which I don't agree with-it's due in large part to the fact that the majority of Redskins fans have no clue and have no patience.

Mr Smack,
I respect much of your opinion whether I agree or not.

But, I believe you must have been pissed when you wrote this one.
No one in the press is being critical of the redskins FANS...they are being critical of Dan Snyder.

You certainly must agree with that.

The question is whether that is warranted or not.
Our fans for the most part...even the skeptical ones have been more than patient with the whims of a young owner learning on the job while sacrificing potential years of early success.
We all hope together that he is learning and makes the right choices

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Mr Smack,
I respect much of your opinion whether I agree or not.

But, I believe you must have been pissed when you wrote this one.
No one in the press is being critical of the redskins FANS...they are being critical of Dan Snyder.

You certainly must agree with that.

The question is whether that is warranted or not.
Our fans for the most part...even the skeptical ones have been more than patient with the whims of a young owner learning on the job while sacrificing potential years of early success.
We all hope together that he is learning and makes the right choices

Mr. Smack? Wow, nice touch

No, I wasn't pissed. I'll retract the statement because I know whenever I bash the fans here everyone gets up in arms.

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think people are making way too big a deal out of the whole coordinators hired before the coach. What about all the players that are here before the coach, should we just cut the whole team so the coach can come in and pick everyone he wants?

Secondly, so what if Spags and Mora went on to more lucrative deals elsewhere? Gregg Williams turned down interview opportunities with other teams and signed an extension with us back in 2006. Does that mean the teams looking for coaches had owners who were "losing respectability"

And Bill Cowher and Pete Carroll want complete control (especially Carroll), it has nothing to do with "this front office structure." It has to do with any team that isn't going to give his head coach complete say. But that shouldn't be seen as a knock on the Redskins.

Anyway, as I've said before, people want to hate on the Redskins now and the fans want to give up. Fine, let them. It's about getting things done between September and hopefully February. It's about winning and "impressing the fans" then. Now? The team just has to do what it feels right to put the team in a strong position come Fall. If fans want to bitch and moan about it, so what? F them. Just have a plan and stick to it

Smootsmack - I for one am glad if Synder told possible head coaching canidates that they will not get complete control. Now I am not a fan of Vinny Cerrato, but I am a fan of seperating the GM from the head coach because if the head coach gets too much say the long range vision of building through the draft usually gets thrown to the wayside as a coach always wants to "win at all costs now so lets go the free agent and trade picks for veterans route".
Now your last comment is where I wonder - do the Redskins and ther front office have a true plan and vision for the team long term? Are the SKins about keeping the core players around and building through the draft? Or are they about signing big time free agents and trading away picks? I for one sure hope its number one and I hope that now that Vinny Cerrato is the man in charge and resposnbile for the direction of the team as far as how it is contructed that Vinny comes out and lets the fans have some idea about the Redskins plan and how they are going about trying to win a Super Bowl.