Portis/Riggins comparison

GTripp0012 · 10-10-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So what's up with the inability to run to the right with Heyer in there? Or is Thomas more to blame?

I don't see it as an inability as much as I see it as a preference to run weakside away from Cooley.

But, I think the simple answer to your question is that our left side has been SO good that running to the right is only a formality to keep the defense honest. If we have Samuels, Kendall, and then Sellers leading up the left side in our base formation, no defense is going to beat us like that. Additionally, on non-zone type runs, we still like to pull Thomas around because he's great at pulling.

Ultimately though, the longer a play to the right takes to develop, the more likely it is that Heyer or Cooley (or Jansen) will have a LB or DB shoot through their gap and blow up the play. Because of that, all of our big plays come on the left side, which keeps the YPC down to the right.

Zorn really like to attack the weak side of the defense, which generally happens to be our offensive left. I think that's the big reason for the lack of balance between the sides.

GTripp0012 · 10-10-2008, 11:33 AM

The other thing is that Cooley is a really, really good zone blocking TE. Who knew? Todd Yoder appears to be hurt by the system change (which has been gradual), but Fred Davis will likely phase him out of the offense very soon anyway.

GTripp0012 · 10-10-2008, 11:52 AM

We are also not running between the tackles as often. This is part because of the success we've had with the stretch play, and part because when we run between the tackles, Casey Rabach ends up 4 yards in the backfield. However, when we run that stretch play and Portis cuts it back, Rabach is often right at the LB level opening a HUGE cutback lane for Portis/Betts. So by taking the pressure off the center to blow open the playside hole, we're improving the blocking at 3 positions on the OL (LG, C, RT).

JWsleep · 10-10-2008, 12:10 PM

I love Portis, but Riggo won us a SB with one of the greatest plays in the history of the NFL. Portis needs to get us to a ring to be in the same league as Riggo, as far as how he's perceived by skins fans. That's just the way things are in sports. CP certainly has the talent to do it and I agree that barring serious injury he'll be the franchise leader in yardage by the end of his career. Plus, he's already the single season record holder.

Whatever--they're both awesome, and let's hope CP takes us all the way!

WillH · 10-10-2008, 12:34 PM

I remember watching Portis his first year in Denver and saying, "I love the way this guy runs; he is my favorite running back in the league." Now I was a big Champ Bailey fan (who wasn't), but when Gibbs traded him for Portis I was ecstatic. Since then I have had the privilege to watch my favorite back play for my team. Watching him play here he has proven to be a more well rounded back then I knew, his pass blocking is phenomenal, and he has continued to improve his versatility by becoming a legit receiving threat. And the attitude and spirit he brings to the team I think is invaluable. I said two years ago, when people started to question how much longer he would last that he is still young, still elite, and is HOF bound. I even made a lifetime bet with a NY Giants fan that he'd be in the HOF before Tiki. I wasn't old enough to watch Riggo in action, so all I know of him are highlight reels. So, Clinton Portis is by far my favorite Redskin, and I think he always will be.

That Guy · 10-10-2008, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillH

I remember watching Portis his first year in Denver and saying, "I love the way this guy runs; he is my favorite running back in the league." Now I was a big Champ Bailey fan (who wasn't)

that'd be me... yeah, i'm that guy.

spearhead05 · 10-10-2008, 01:15 PM

I had the pleasuer of first hearing news of Clinton in high school becuse I live in FLA and played football in high school so the rumors of this kid from Gansville high were awsome.
Clinton and I were born a week from each other (I'm older) and when I got hurt I got to see santana at Carol city a couple of times. Then they went to the U and I got to see them there so I have seen a lot of them. CP has come along way even though I'm not old enough to remember Riggo I can see there toughness are the same.

skinsnut · 10-10-2008, 01:39 PM

It is really hard to compare these 2 backs since they are so different.

The weaknesses of Portis were the strength of Riggo.

Riggo was basically a Mike Sellers type back with running back skills.
He ran up the gut and always gained yardage, even when the defense knew exactly where the play was going with 9 in the box.
This is an unheard of ability in today's NFL.
Many times he would run 8-9 plays in a row....and he NEVER came out ....EVER.
Back then the skins tried to run him 30+ times a game, and he'd only get started after having 20+ carries.

Now, the max carries are about 20-25/game for a single back, and they need rest, as Portis does.

I frankly, could not believe that Portis was not in the game the next to last drive last week, it was shocking to me with the game on the line.
Riggo would have been there, beating the crap out of the opposition in that situation and drooling for more. Riggo was essentially RB with a MLB mentality, he LOVED to hit someone....HARD....Now, Riggo didn't catch much, and he didn't run sweeps or catch screens, he didn't have too because he'd always drag the first guy another 2-3 yards after contact. Riggo was the Dominating force for our back to back superbowls, everyone keyed on him. It was not playcalling that won those games as much as it was Riggo getting a guaranteed 3 every time...(of course play action-deep works great in those situations)

Riggo would not work as well with zone blocking as he thrived on bunch blocking with heavy contact, open spaces favor shifty backs that juke and hesitate.
Riggo did not juke nor hesistate,....ever.
I bet he took fewer losses than any RB in history.

Now Portis on the other hand is the exact opposite, more of a barry sanders type that requires a hole to run through. His weakness is short yardage on the goal line, the opposite of Riggo. He shored up his "between the tackles" running quite a bit a few years back and is actually very good at that now....The only thing he lacks vs Riggo is the ability to drag multiple defenders, get a guaranteed 2 yards up the gut when needed, and avoidance of negative runs. However, Portis can catch and even line up as a WR occasionally....and his pass blocking is phenominal....yes Riggo pass blocked well too, but I dont think he was nimble enough to handle pass rushing DEs like Portis can.
Riggo essentially helped in the interior.

So, who is better?
Well, Riggo of course, he has a ring and dragged the Skins to 2 back to back Superbowls.

Who is a more balanced all round back?
Portis.

Will Portis ever reach the level of Riggo in all time Redskins lore?
Hard to say...even if he duplicates what Riggo's teams did,....Riggo did it first and is a HERO for winning the Redskins first Superbowl in a stretch of glory.
Until Portis wins a Superbowl and becomes a household name like the Diesel, you'd have to say Riggo is still in the drivers seat.

LandrySlice · 10-10-2008, 05:00 PM

This is one of the best threads I have ever read on this site! Way too hard for me to compare, but at the end of the day, Super Bowl rings is what we all want to see, and Riggo has one. I am not saying that CP can't get the job done, and I am loving him more and more each season, but I am rolling with Riggo for now. Plus I ran into CP at PF Changs this winter, and he was drinking Pina Coladas! I don't think you will find the diesal ever sipping on one of those!

NYCskinfan82 · 10-10-2008, 05:17 PM

good question great debate the rings have it.

Slingin Sammy 33 · 10-10-2008, 05:22 PM

Very good thread. Great points made. Have to go with rings and HoF. When Portis does either then the discussion gets more interesting. Until then Riggo.

LandrySlice · 10-10-2008, 05:27 PM

Amen Brotha, I think if Portis stays healthy and this team has more continuity over time it could become a tie if the z man leads them to the promise land!

53Fan · 10-10-2008, 10:05 PM

I think Portis is a great back and getting better all around. But with Riggo, if you needed 2 or 3 yards for a 1rst down and you gave him the ball, you could bank on it. The guy never got stuffed, never was brought down by one guy, and always fell forward for extra yardage. On the other hand Riggo did'nt catch many passes and I don't remember him ever decleating a defender the way Clinton does either. What they do have in common, is they are both a little nuts and fun as hell to watch.

CRedskinsRule · 10-11-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I think Portis is a great back and getting better all around. But with Riggo, if you needed 2 or 3 yards for a 1rst down and you gave him the ball, you could bank on it. The guy never got stuffed, never was brought down by one guy, and always fell forward for extra yardage.

Of course the defenders weren't 300lbs either.

53Fan · 10-11-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Of course the defenders weren't 300lbs either.

Neither were the offensive linemen. And I'm pretty sure if Riggins were in his 20's, he could still do it today.

10-10-2008, 11:33 AM	#2
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Evanston, IL Age: 37 Posts: 15,994	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison The other thing is that Cooley is a really, really good zone blocking TE. Who knew? Todd Yoder appears to be hurt by the system change (which has been gradual), but Fred Davis will likely phase him out of the offense very soon anyway. __________________ according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

10-10-2008, 11:52 AM	#3
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Evanston, IL Age: 37 Posts: 15,994	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison We are also not running between the tackles as often. This is part because of the success we've had with the stretch play, and part because when we run between the tackles, Casey Rabach ends up 4 yards in the backfield. However, when we run that stretch play and Portis cuts it back, Rabach is often right at the LB level opening a HUGE cutback lane for Portis/Betts. So by taking the pressure off the center to blow open the playside hole, we're improving the blocking at 3 positions on the OL (LG, C, RT). __________________ according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

10-10-2008, 12:10 PM	#4
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 56 Posts: 4,719	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison I love Portis, but Riggo won us a SB with one of the greatest plays in the history of the NFL. Portis needs to get us to a ring to be in the same league as Riggo, as far as how he's perceived by skins fans. That's just the way things are in sports. CP certainly has the talent to do it and I agree that barring serious injury he'll be the franchise leader in yardage by the end of his career. Plus, he's already the single season record holder. Whatever--they're both awesome, and let's hope CP takes us all the way! __________________ Hail from Houston!

10-10-2008, 12:34 PM	#5
WillH The Starter Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,592	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison I remember watching Portis his first year in Denver and saying, "I love the way this guy runs; he is my favorite running back in the league." Now I was a big Champ Bailey fan (who wasn't), but when Gibbs traded him for Portis I was ecstatic. Since then I have had the privilege to watch my favorite back play for my team. Watching him play here he has proven to be a more well rounded back then I knew, his pass blocking is phenomenal, and he has continued to improve his versatility by becoming a legit receiving threat. And the attitude and spirit he brings to the team I think is invaluable. I said two years ago, when people started to question how much longer he would last that he is still young, still elite, and is HOF bound. I even made a lifetime bet with a NY Giants fan that he'd be in the HOF before Tiki. I wasn't old enough to watch Riggo in action, so all I know of him are highlight reels. So, Clinton Portis is by far my favorite Redskin, and I think he always will be.

10-10-2008, 01:15 PM	#7
spearhead05 Special Teams Join Date: Jun 2005 Age: 44 Posts: 121	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison I had the pleasuer of first hearing news of Clinton in high school becuse I live in FLA and played football in high school so the rumors of this kid from Gansville high were awsome. Clinton and I were born a week from each other (I'm older) and when I got hurt I got to see santana at Carol city a couple of times. Then they went to the U and I got to see them there so I have seen a lot of them. CP has come along way even though I'm not old enough to remember Riggo I can see there toughness are the same.

10-10-2008, 01:39 PM	#8
skinsnut Playmaker Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,975	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison It is really hard to compare these 2 backs since they are so different. The weaknesses of Portis were the strength of Riggo. Riggo was basically a Mike Sellers type back with running back skills. He ran up the gut and always gained yardage, even when the defense knew exactly where the play was going with 9 in the box. This is an unheard of ability in today's NFL. Many times he would run 8-9 plays in a row....and he NEVER came out ....EVER. Back then the skins tried to run him 30+ times a game, and he'd only get started after having 20+ carries. Now, the max carries are about 20-25/game for a single back, and they need rest, as Portis does. I frankly, could not believe that Portis was not in the game the next to last drive last week, it was shocking to me with the game on the line. Riggo would have been there, beating the crap out of the opposition in that situation and drooling for more. Riggo was essentially RB with a MLB mentality, he LOVED to hit someone....HARD....Now, Riggo didn't catch much, and he didn't run sweeps or catch screens, he didn't have too because he'd always drag the first guy another 2-3 yards after contact. Riggo was the Dominating force for our back to back superbowls, everyone keyed on him. It was not playcalling that won those games as much as it was Riggo getting a guaranteed 3 every time...(of course play action-deep works great in those situations) Riggo would not work as well with zone blocking as he thrived on bunch blocking with heavy contact, open spaces favor shifty backs that juke and hesitate. Riggo did not juke nor hesistate,....ever. I bet he took fewer losses than any RB in history. Now Portis on the other hand is the exact opposite, more of a barry sanders type that requires a hole to run through. His weakness is short yardage on the goal line, the opposite of Riggo. He shored up his "between the tackles" running quite a bit a few years back and is actually very good at that now....The only thing he lacks vs Riggo is the ability to drag multiple defenders, get a guaranteed 2 yards up the gut when needed, and avoidance of negative runs. However, Portis can catch and even line up as a WR occasionally....and his pass blocking is phenominal....yes Riggo pass blocked well too, but I dont think he was nimble enough to handle pass rushing DEs like Portis can. Riggo essentially helped in the interior. So, who is better? Well, Riggo of course, he has a ring and dragged the Skins to 2 back to back Superbowls. Who is a more balanced all round back? Portis. Will Portis ever reach the level of Riggo in all time Redskins lore? Hard to say...even if he duplicates what Riggo's teams did,....Riggo did it first and is a HERO for winning the Redskins first Superbowl in a stretch of glory. Until Portis wins a Superbowl and becomes a household name like the Diesel, you'd have to say Riggo is still in the drivers seat. __________________ I hate Dallas...Period

10-10-2008, 05:00 PM	#9
LandrySlice Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: AFGHANISTAN Posts: 335	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison This is one of the best threads I have ever read on this site! Way too hard for me to compare, but at the end of the day, Super Bowl rings is what we all want to see, and Riggo has one. I am not saying that CP can't get the job done, and I am loving him more and more each season, but I am rolling with Riggo for now. Plus I ran into CP at PF Changs this winter, and he was drinking Pina Coladas! I don't think you will find the diesal ever sipping on one of those! __________________ Don't tase me bro!!!!

10-10-2008, 05:17 PM	#10
NYCskinfan82 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Queens, NYC Age: 56 Posts: 3,803	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison good question great debate the rings have it.

10-10-2008, 05:22 PM	#11
Slingin Sammy 33 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 4,347	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison Very good thread. Great points made. Have to go with rings and HoF. When Portis does either then the discussion gets more interesting. Until then Riggo. __________________ "I would bet.....(if), an angel fairy came down and said, '[You can have anything] in the world you would like to own,' I wouldn't be surprised if you said a football club and particularly the Washington Redskins.'' — Jack Kent Cooke, 1996.

10-10-2008, 05:27 PM	#12
LandrySlice Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: AFGHANISTAN Posts: 335	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison Amen Brotha, I think if Portis stays healthy and this team has more continuity over time it could become a tie if the z man leads them to the promise land! __________________ Don't tase me bro!!!!

10-10-2008, 10:05 PM	#13
53Fan Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Kill Devil Hills, N.C. Posts: 7,570	Re: Portis/Riggins comparison I think Portis is a great back and getting better all around. But with Riggo, if you needed 2 or 3 yards for a 1rst down and you gave him the ball, you could bank on it. The guy never got stuffed, never was brought down by one guy, and always fell forward for extra yardage. On the other hand Riggo did'nt catch many passes and I don't remember him ever decleating a defender the way Clinton does either. What they do have in common, is they are both a little nuts and fun as hell to watch.

Portis/Riggins comparison

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