If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I would:

Coaching Staff
-Keep Everyone in place but make Zorn relinquish some of his duties (I would allow Zorn to keep playcalling duties, beleiving that he would improve in that area if he had fewer responsibilities elsewhere)

Resign
-DeAngelo Hall.
-Monty

Cut
Of starters: Griffin, Rabach, Washington, Taylor, both kickers

Trade
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

Sign in Free Agency
-Rocky Bernard, DT, Seahawks. He will be 30 when the 2009 season starts and I would sign him to a contract appropriate for someone his age. He managed 33 tackles and 4 sacks on a horrible defense in 2008. He would replace Golston and give us time to develop a young DT in the draft.
-Karlos Dansby, LB, Arizona. His stock will keep rising as long as Arizona keeps winning. He may become too expensive for us, but we'll see.
-Devery Henderson, UFA, New Orleans Saints. Replaces Moss.
-Two new kickers... anyone but the guys we have.

Draft
Trade the #13 pick to ATL for their 1st and 2nd Rounders (ATL selects 24th) and draft:

1(ATL): Ciron Black, OT, LSU. Black starts at RT in 2009 and swaps spots with Samuels in 2010.
2(ATL): Max Unger, C, Oregon Unger replaces Rabach immediately and has the versatility to play OG as well.
2(For C.H.): Fili Moala, DE/DT, USC Maola is also versatile and a good pick here if still available.
3(SF): Clay Mathews, OLB, USC Replaces McIntosh as a starter by the end of the season
3(WAS): Eric Moncur, DE, Miami Makes an instant impact on special teams as he works his way into a starting role in 2010.
4(SF) Anthony Parker, G, Tenn Project Guard to start in 2010/2011
4(For K.G) Captain Munnerlyn, CB, SC #3/#4CB
5(WAS):Curtis Taylor, FS, LSU Competes for roster spot.
6(WAS):Darryl Richard, DT, GT Competes for roster spot.

2009 Offensive Starters
QB:Jason Campbell
RB: Clinton Portis (splits carries with Betts)
WR1: Devin Thomas
WR2: Devery Henderson
TE1: Chris Cooley
TE2: Fred Davis (2TE sets becomes our standard formation as opposed to 1TE/1FB)
OL: Samuels, Rinehart, Unger, Thomas, Black

2009 Defensive Starters
DL: Carter, Montgommery, Bernard, Evans/Moala
LB: McIntosh, Fletcher, Dansby
CB: Rogers, Hall
SS: Landry
FS: Springs (when healthy)/Moore

[davelavarra]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I

Trade
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

Sorry, but how can we get rid of Horton after the monster season he's had?

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by davelavarra

Sorry, but how can we get rid of Horton after the monster season he's had?

Horton plays SS. Landry should be playing SS. The only reason he's not is he had to move to FS to accomodate Doughty (last year) and Horton (this year). We deliberately brought in Schwiegert (or whatever the heck his name was) last year in hopes that Landry could move back to SS. However, it didnt work out and when the season began, Doughty and Landry were our best two safeties on our roster so Landry "stayed" at SS.

Then Doughty got hurt and Kareem Moore was not ready so Horton came in. The Plan all along was to move Springs to Safety at some point. Unfortunately, he was injured alot this year and when he was healthy, Smoot was playing horrible so Rogers and Springs were our best two corners... Springs wasnt able to move to safety until we acquired Hall and we had more corner depth. When we did, who was the first man off the field? Chris Horton. Horton is a poor mans Laron Landry and if we keep him as our starting SS, Landry is going to be wasted at FS.

Kareem Moore (a natural FS) showed much more promise in training camp last year than Horton, but was held back by injuries early on in the year. He made a few "rookie mistakes" this year, but he really started to come in to his own as the season neared its end.

Is Horton a really good player? YES. Is he one of the best draft picks this team has made in recent memory? YES. Those are all arguments for keeping him... but they are also arguments for trading him as his value high. He's a young, but somewhat proven player, and many teams would likely rather trade a 2nd round pick for a proven 1 year vet with tons of upside than take a chance on an unproven guy with that 2nd round pick in the draft.

In the end, what it comes down to (for me) is this - Is our team better with:

A: Rogers and Hall at CB with Horton at SS and Landry at FS

OR

B: Rogers and Hall at CB with Landry at SS (where he will be able to make more plays) and Springs (who is our best DB when healthy) at FS, while grooming Moore as his replacement... AND a 2nd round pick to upgrade our defensive line/LB corps?

In both cases, we've got a pretty darn good defensive backfield. But In my opinion, Option B is the way to go:
1. It puts our best 4 DBs on the field at the same time
2. It puts Landry, a former top 10 pick, in the position to do what we drafted him to do.
3. It allows us to trade a player at a position of depth in exchange for a draft pick that SHOULD yield a starter for this team in 2009. (I say should because it all depends on Vinny making a wise selection with the 2nd rounder. Its understandable that none of the 2nd rounders contributed this year. WRs usually dont produce much their rookie seasons. Next year, we should be addressing our lines and LB positon with our 1st day picks. Players at those positions make an easier transition to the pro-level, so hopefully a 2nd round pick would be starting for us next year.)

[ST21RIP]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Horton plays SS. Landry should be playing SS. The only reason he's not is he had to move to FS to accomodate Doughty (last year) and Horton (this year). We deliberately brought in Schwiegert (or whatever the heck his name was) last year in hopes that Landry could move back to SS. However, it didnt work out and when the season began, Doughty and Landry were our best two safeties on our roster so Landry "stayed" at SS.

Then Doughty got hurt and Kareem Moore was not ready so Horton came in. The Plan all along was to move Springs to Safety at some point. Unfortunately, he was injured alot this year and when he was healthy, Smoot was playing horrible so Rogers and Springs were our best two corners... Springs wasnt able to move to safety until we acquired Hall and we had more corner depth. When we did, who was the first man off the field? Chris Horton. Horton is a poor mans Laron Landry and if we keep him as our starting SS, Landry is going to be wasted at FS.

Kareem Moore (a natural FS) showed much more promise in training camp last year than Horton, but was held back by injuries early on in the year. He made a few "rookie mistakes" this year, but he really started to come in to his own as the season neared its end.

Is Horton a really good player? YES. Is he one of the best draft picks this team has made in recent memory? YES. Those are all arguments for keeping him... but they are also arguments for trading him as his value high. He's a young, but somewhat proven player, and many teams would likely rather trade a 2nd round pick for a proven 1 year vet with tons of upside than take a chance on an unproven guy with that 2nd round pick in the draft.

In the end, what it comes down to (for me) is this - Is our team better with:

A: Rogers and Hall at CB with Horton at SS and Landry at FS

OR

B: Rogers and Hall at CB with Landry at SS (where he will be able to make more plays) and Springs (who is our best DB when healthy) at FS, while grooming Moore as his replacement... AND a 2nd round pick to upgrade our defensive line/LB corps?

In both cases, we've got a pretty darn good defensive backfield. But In my opinion, Option B is the way to go:
1. It puts our best 4 DBs on the field at the same time
2. It puts Landry, a former top 10 pick, in the position to do what we drafted him to do.
3. It allows us to trade a player at a position of depth in exchange for a draft pick that SHOULD yield a starter for this team in 2009. (I say should because it all depends on Vinny making a wise selection with the 2nd rounder. Its understandable that none of the 2nd rounders contributed this year. WRs usually dont produce much their rookie seasons. Next year, we should be addressing our lines and LB positon with our 1st day picks. Players at those positions make an easier transition to the pro-level, so hopefully a 2nd round pick would be starting for us next year.)

Simply a perfect analysis. Well done.

[ST21RIP]

not draft sh*theads.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I would:

Coaching Staff
-Keep Everyone in place but make Zorn relinquish some of his duties (I would allow Zorn to keep playcalling duties, beleiving that he would improve in that area if he had fewer responsibilities elsewhere)

Resign
-DeAngelo Hall.
-Monty

Cut
Of starters: Griffin, Rabach, Washington, Taylor, both kickers

Trade
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

Sign in Free Agency
-Rocky Bernard, DT, Seahawks. He will be 30 when the 2009 season starts and I would sign him to a contract appropriate for someone his age. He managed 33 tackles and 4 sacks on a horrible defense in 2008. He would replace Golston and give us time to develop a young DT in the draft.
-Karlos Dansby, LB, Arizona. His stock will keep rising as long as Arizona keeps winning. He may become too expensive for us, but we'll see.
-Devery Henderson, UFA, New Orleans Saints. Replaces Moss.
-Two new kickers... anyone but the guys we have.

Draft
Trade the #13 pick to ATL for their 1st and 2nd Rounders (ATL selects 24th) and draft:

1(ATL): Ciron Black, OT, LSU. Black starts at RT in 2009 and swaps spots with Samuels in 2010.
2(ATL): Max Unger, C, Oregon Unger replaces Rabach immediately and has the versatility to play OG as well.
2(For C.H.): Fili Moala, DE/DT, USC Maola is also versatile and a good pick here if still available.
3(SF): Clay Mathews, OLB, USC Replaces McIntosh as a starter by the end of the season
3(WAS): Eric Moncur, DE, Miami Makes an instant impact on special teams as he works his way into a starting role in 2010.
4(SF) Anthony Parker, G, Tenn Project Guard to start in 2010/2011
4(For K.G) Captain Munnerlyn, CB, SC #3/#4CB
5(WAS):Curtis Taylor, FS, LSU Competes for roster spot.
6(WAS):Darryl Richard, DT, GT Competes for roster spot.

2009 Offensive Starters
QB:Jason Campbell
RB: Clinton Portis (splits carries with Betts)
WR1: Devin Thomas
WR2: Devery Henderson
TE1: Chris Cooley
TE2: Fred Davis (2TE sets becomes our standard formation as opposed to 1TE/1FB)
OL: Samuels, Rinehart, Unger, Thomas, Black

2009 Defensive Starters
DL: Carter, Montgommery, Bernard, Evans/Moala
LB: McIntosh, Fletcher, Dansby
CB: Rogers, Hall
SS: Landry
FS: Springs (when healthy)/Moore

I think this makes sense.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I would:

Coaching Staff
-Keep Everyone in place but make Zorn relinquish some of his duties (I would allow Zorn to keep playcalling duties, beleiving that he would improve in that area if he had fewer responsibilities elsewhere)

Resign
-DeAngelo Hall.
-Monty

Cut
Of starters: Griffin, Rabach, Washington, Taylor, both kickers

Trade
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

Sign in Free Agency
-Rocky Bernard, DT, Seahawks. He will be 30 when the 2009 season starts and I would sign him to a contract appropriate for someone his age. He managed 33 tackles and 4 sacks on a horrible defense in 2008. He would replace Golston and give us time to develop a young DT in the draft.
-Karlos Dansby, LB, Arizona. His stock will keep rising as long as Arizona keeps winning. He may become too expensive for us, but we'll see.
-Devery Henderson, UFA, New Orleans Saints. Replaces Moss.
-Two new kickers... anyone but the guys we have.

Draft
Trade the #13 pick to ATL for their 1st and 2nd Rounders (ATL selects 24th) and draft:

1(ATL): Ciron Black, OT, LSU. Black starts at RT in 2009 and swaps spots with Samuels in 2010.
2(ATL): Max Unger, C, Oregon Unger replaces Rabach immediately and has the versatility to play OG as well.
2(For C.H.): Fili Moala, DE/DT, USC Maola is also versatile and a good pick here if still available.
3(SF): Clay Mathews, OLB, USC Replaces McIntosh as a starter by the end of the season
3(WAS): Eric Moncur, DE, Miami Makes an instant impact on special teams as he works his way into a starting role in 2010.
4(SF) Anthony Parker, G, Tenn Project Guard to start in 2010/2011
4(For K.G) Captain Munnerlyn, CB, SC #3/#4CB
5(WAS):Curtis Taylor, FS, LSU Competes for roster spot.
6(WAS):Darryl Richard, DT, GT Competes for roster spot.

2009 Offensive Starters
QB:Jason Campbell
RB: Clinton Portis (splits carries with Betts)
WR1: Devin Thomas
WR2: Devery Henderson
TE1: Chris Cooley
TE2: Fred Davis (2TE sets becomes our standard formation as opposed to 1TE/1FB)
OL: Samuels, Rinehart, Unger, Thomas, Black

2009 Defensive Starters
DL: Carter, Montgommery, Bernard, Evans/Moala
LB: McIntosh, Fletcher, Dansby
CB: Rogers, Hall
SS: Landry
FS: Springs (when healthy)/Moore

How many times would you reset the game when you were losing by 20 or more at halftime?

and

Do you play the whole season or simulate until the playoffs and reset the season if you don't get in?


...we're talking about the same thing right???

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

How many times would you reset the game when you were losing by 20 or more at halftime?

and

Do you play the whole season or simulate until the playoffs and reset the season if you don't get in?


...we're talking about the same thing right???

LOL post of the day

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

How many times would you reset the game when you were losing by 20 or more at halftime?

and

Do you play the whole season or simulate until the playoffs and reset the season if you don't get in?


...we're talking about the same thing right???

Hilarious

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Trade
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

There are just so many flaws here that it blows the rest of your entire plan. For starters, there are only 2 GM in or around football who would consider giving up a 4th rounder for Golston and a 2nd rounder for Horton. Unfortunately Matt Millen was already fired and we already employ Vinny Cerrato. Teams don't trade draft picks for players drafted in the 6th and 7th rounds who aren't game changers. Making a few tackles because you're in position and getting a couple turnovers in the first half of the season doesn't make your value explode to a 2nd round pick.

I was as pleasantly surprised by Horton as well, but let's be realistic. The kid isn't even in the top 15 safeties in the game, how is he all of the sudden worth a 2nd round pick. Golston isn't even a consistent starter, he's just a guy-nothing special. If anything Montgomery has more value because his upside is much higher.


To the topic of the thread, unfortunately all Vinny needs to do is keep making his afternoon racquetball appointments with Danny. What we wish he would have to do is be a leader and properly assess this team and make a plan. This is a flawed roster and is closer to needing a rebuild than a patch here and there for a SB run. We are not overly explosive, physical or intelligent. We don't stand out in any phase of the game. A true VP of Football Operations would make the hard decisions about what needs to be done, how long it's going to take, who you are going to build around and implement his plan. God willing, we one day will have that person.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

If I were ME, and I had Vinnys Job, I would:

Coaching Staff
-Keep Everyone in place but make Zorn relinquish some of his duties (I would allow Zorn to keep playcalling duties, beleiving that he would improve in that area if he had fewer responsibilities elsewhere)

Resign
-DeAngelo Hall.
-Monty

Cut
Of starters: Griffin, Rabach, Washington, Taylor, both kickers

Trade
-Santana Moss (3rd and 4th rounders - for kicks, lets say we trade with SF. They get more out of Moss in 2 games than we ever got out of Lloyd in 2 seaons)
-kedric Golston (4th rounder)
-Chris Horton (low 2nd rounder)

Sign in Free Agency
-Rocky Bernard, DT, Seahawks. He will be 30 when the 2009 season starts and I would sign him to a contract appropriate for someone his age. He managed 33 tackles and 4 sacks on a horrible defense in 2008. He would replace Golston and give us time to develop a young DT in the draft.
-Karlos Dansby, LB, Arizona. His stock will keep rising as long as Arizona keeps winning. He may become too expensive for us, but we'll see.
-Devery Henderson, UFA, New Orleans Saints. Replaces Moss.
-Two new kickers... anyone but the guys we have.

Draft
Trade the #13 pick to ATL for their 1st and 2nd Rounders (ATL selects 24th) and draft:

1(ATL): Ciron Black, OT, LSU. Black starts at RT in 2009 and swaps spots with Samuels in 2010.
2(ATL): Max Unger, C, Oregon Unger replaces Rabach immediately and has the versatility to play OG as well.
2(For C.H.): Fili Moala, DE/DT, USC Maola is also versatile and a good pick here if still available.
3(SF): Clay Mathews, OLB, USC Replaces McIntosh as a starter by the end of the season
3(WAS): Eric Moncur, DE, Miami Makes an instant impact on special teams as he works his way into a starting role in 2010.
4(SF) Anthony Parker, G, Tenn Project Guard to start in 2010/2011
4(For K.G) Captain Munnerlyn, CB, SC #3/#4CB
5(WAS):Curtis Taylor, FS, LSU Competes for roster spot.
6(WAS):Darryl Richard, DT, GT Competes for roster spot.

2009 Offensive Starters
QB:Jason Campbell
RB: Clinton Portis (splits carries with Betts)
WR1: Devin Thomas
WR2: Devery Henderson
TE1: Chris Cooley
TE2: Fred Davis (2TE sets becomes our standard formation as opposed to 1TE/1FB)
OL: Samuels, Rinehart, Unger, Thomas, Black

2009 Defensive Starters
DL: Carter, Montgommery, Bernard, Evans/Moala
LB: McIntosh, Fletcher, Dansby
CB: Rogers, Hall
SS: Landry
FS: Springs (when healthy)/Moore

The one guy I would not trade is Horton.

[Defensewins]

I am not sure you can count on CB Springs to renegotiate his deal. He has refused to renegotiate the last two off seasons, why would be willing this year?

Depending on what kind of cap number Jason Taylor is willing to come down to, I wonder if the temptation to get the entire $8.5M in cap space by his release will outweigh his potential improved play and say a $4M in cap space? I would cut Taylor and draft a pass rush DE with the 1st round pick. I would not gamble that Taylor, who will turn 35 in September will have another MVP season. As a GM, I would not accept a $4m cap number for an old, injury prone situational pass rusher. If he were a starter and produced in 2008, I would do it. But 2008 was a bad year for Taylor.

[irish]

No matter what happens Vinny isnt going anywhere. It would be a huge mistake to fire Zorn no matter what happens (but nothing the Skins do would surprise me) and would be another step toward the Skins keeping Pace with the Raiders as teams nobody will want to go near.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by irish

No matter what happens Vinny isnt going anywhere. It would be a huge mistake to fire Zorn no matter what happens (but nothing the Skins do would surprise me) and would be another step toward the Skins keeping Pace with the Raiders as teams nobody will want to go near.

I agree, Vinny will never get fired. At worst they will move him to another position.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by irish

No matter what happens Vinny isnt going anywhere. It would be a huge mistake to fire Zorn no matter what happens (but nothing the Skins do would surprise me) and would be another step toward the Skins keeping Pace with the Raiders as teams nobody will want to go near.

You are right, JZ needs to stay! My jury is out on VC.....for now
Many fans including Skins fans scream for "Cowher"..........but they forget how many seasons it took to reach the pinacle.