Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

-Could they be better? Of course. I'm not naive to mistakes they've made. The Duckett trade was disatrous and unneccesary, as one example. But we see a Chad Rinehart drafted in the 3rd round not starting and suddenly the thought is OMG, the Redskins suck! They don't know how to even draft a 3rd rounder...yeah, but we drafted Chris Cooley in the 3rd round, we drafted Derrick Dockery in the 3rd round (but we tend to forget that). We see Devin Thomas not playing much his first year and we think This moron was a waste of a pick! But at the same time we want the FO to build through the draft, be patient, and not go for the quick fix all the time

To this, let me say that if the Redskins wanted a seamless transition between building predominantly through FA talent to building predominantly through the draft, picking at a similar hit rate to the rest of the league isn't good enough. We need(ed?) to take low risk players at positions of need with considerable upside. Even as I write that, it sounds impossible, but I know for a fact it was a reasonable expectation.

But ultimately, I have a real problem with the FO trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the fanbase by asking them to be patient with the building through the draft process, and then not demonstrating patience in the face of the Daniels injury by dealing for Jason Taylor. That is NOT building through the draft, it's throwing away your most valuable (wage-adjusted) pick for a 34 year old former superstar. Fine, if you think it's the move that gets us over the top, I impore you to do it. Just don't turn around after the season (and to Vinny's credit, he hasn't done this publically) and be like "we'll just be patient while we build through the draft." Uh, okay. Thanks for the reassurance.

I agree that the Redskins don't have a consistent, clear, long-term plan. They do seem to seize oppertunities in the market better than the league expectation, but that might just be thanks to having a huge cash surplus as an asset, and being so close to the salary cap that they have to wait for oppertunities (like a new CBA in 06 or a last capped year) to spend themselves ahead of their competition.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

To this, let me say that if the Redskins wanted a seamless transition between building predominantly through FA talent to building predominantly through the draft, picking at a similar hit rate to the rest of the league isn't good enough. We need(ed?) to take low risk players at positions of need with considerable upside. Even as I write that, it sounds impossible, but I know for a fact it was a reasonable expectation.

But ultimately, I have a real problem with the FO trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the fanbase by asking them to be patient with the building through the draft process, and then not demonstrating patience in the face of the Daniels injury by dealing for Jason Taylor. That is NOT building through the draft, it's throwing away your most valuable (wage-adjusted) pick for a 34 year old former superstar. Fine, if you think it's the move that gets us over the top, I impore you to do it. Just don't turn around after the season (and to Vinny's credit, he hasn't done this publically) and be like "we'll just be patient while we build through the draft." Uh, okay. Thanks for the reassurance.

I agree that the Redskins don't have a consistent, clear, long-term plan. They do seem to seize oppertunities in the market better than the league expectation, but that might just be thanks to having a huge cash surplus as an asset, and being so close to the salary cap that they have to wait for oppertunities (like a new CBA in 06 or a last capped year) to spend themselves ahead of their competition.

Fair point. I think there needs to be balance between the trades, draft, and free agency.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm not going to speak for the other mods, but for myself I think

-They do a lot of things well that are overlooked by the team's fans because we all want 16-0 seasons with Lombardi trophies at the end every year

-Sometimes it may seem like I go overboard to defend the FO, but it's sometimes to provide the other perspective to the constant bashing

-I think if people took a step back they would see that a lot of other teams (even the best) make bad decisions and have bad luck. The idea that everyone else is doing it right and we're doing it wrong is naive

-A lot of people here are loving what the Giants did this offseason (so far). But we needed to improve our offensive and defensive lines and we've taken steps to do that. The Giants needed to find a WR and what have they done to address that? It's early and I expect they'll (although they deny it) use their draft picks and/or talent on the defensive line to get that WR. But they haven't yet.

-Are they good at what they do? In many ways yes. We've made several good choices in the draft and free agency. I know the common refrain is "Well how hard is to know to draft Sean Taylor?" Well, a lot of teams have made bad choices in the first round. And I know most have written off Thomas and Kelly. Well, that really just goes back to point #1.

-Could they be better? Of course. I'm not naive to mistakes they've made. The Duckett trade was disatrous and unneccesary, as one example. But we see a Chad Rinehart drafted in the 3rd round not starting and suddenly the thought is OMG, the Redskins suck! They don't know how to even draft a 3rd rounder...yeah, but we drafted Chris Cooley in the 3rd round, we drafted Derrick Dockery in the 3rd round (but we tend to forget that). We see Devin Thomas not playing much his first year and we think This moron was a waste of a pick! But at the same time we want the FO to build through the draft, be patient, and not go for the quick fix all the time

Good post and a fair one. I try to be objective but it seems that they make the same mistakes over and over again. I know they've made some nice moves and when they do I'll be the first one to say so. It's just that the bad ones are so bad that it's almost comical.

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

They don't have a plan. They tack up pictures of free agents and draft picks and toss darts at them. They also get a lot of their info from playing Madden and simming through the franchise mode.

My last time playing superstar mode i was defensive player of the year after four years and the skins lowballed me in free agency, must have known i wouldn't pick another team /sigh. On a funnier note Campbell is normally out of the league within 3 years when i play franchises.

[SC Skins Fan]

There is not much to say to defend the Jason Taylor decisions (both the trade and the release). As you say, it was a panic move prompted by not making long-term plans at DE and lacking proper depth at that postion/not having confidence in your depth (Demetric Evans) who probably could have done the job. Then you cut Taylor and lose any potential for reaping some reward for the high price that you paid for the guy. Now if you can use that money to fill in some holes, specifically then maybe it works out alright.

The money for Haynesworth, on the other hand, is far less significant. Most people who know think the the NFL will go uncapped in 2010 and will probably not come back after that. So you spend the big money on the best player (by far) in the 2009 class anticipating 1) no cap in future years 2) the uncapped rules will significantly water down the 2010 free agent class ... it might be one of the worst ever with the extra tags and extended time to UFA. Plus, Haynesworth is a game changer in both the run and pass games, a dominant line player that the Redskins have not had since ... Plus, the cap hit on Haynesworth this year is only $7 million. That really is not inhibiting the Skins ability to make moves and they got the very best player available in UFA while he is still in the prime of his career. Don't buy all the $100 million hype, this was a good move. At the outset of free agency I probably would have said that I'd rather get Canty at a lower price, but having Haynesworth at an average cap hit of $9.7 million/year over the next four years is not that bad a price and it's not like Canty was coming here for chump change. So basically I think the FO did have a plan with Haynesworth ... Taylor, not so much. If we could do more Haynesworth deals and get rid of those Taylor-type trades (i.e. giving away picks) then we'd really be doing something.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

So basically I think the FO did have a plan with Haynesworth ... Taylor, not so much. If we could do more Haynesworth deals and get rid of those Taylor-type trades (i.e. giving away picks) then we'd really be doing something.

Well, if they follow a step forward with a step back, then they're not going anywhere.

[FRPLG]

We haven't had one of these in a bit. Who is gonna bite?

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

We haven't had one of these in a bit. Who is gonna bite?

right here.

[Pocket$ $traight]

They have a plan, a marketing one. Football comes second with this owner. Always has, always will. Not to say I don't like a lot of the moves so far but the Giants have definitely killed us in the offseason to date.

[Hog1]

The old......DART plan, ehh................Sound wisdom!
The old .....OUIJA board plan, ehh........Sound wisdom!
The old .......MAGIC 8 ball plan, ehh......Sound wisdom!
-Vinnie C.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

I understand being upset with some of the moves the FO has made, but theyve made far more good personnel moves since the 2007-2008 offseason than bad ones. Was the trade for Jason Taylor a panic move? Yes - but in the end, the only significant thing the move cost us was the 2nd round pick in this years draft. Could we have taken a great player with that pick? Possibly. But its also possible the guy we would have taken with the pick would be a bust - theres no way of knowing.

Overall, i'm very please with last years draft. We had all 22 starters from 2007 coming back, so we were able to pick up alot of project and depth guys - guys who didnt need to start right away. I think atleast 6 of the 2008 draft class are poised to play a significant role for the team in 2009.

As for this offseason - so far its been phenomenal. Free agency is two weeks old yet and so far weve signed:

Albert Hayneworth - Pro-bowl starter. Best DT in the league.
DeAngelo Hall - Pro-bowl Starter. Playmaker, interception machine.
Derrick Dockery - Starter
Ethan Albright - ST Starter
Anthony Montgommery - Starting quality DT
Kedric Golston - Starting qualtity DT
Alfred Fincher - Solid backup LB and great special teamer.

4 of those players will start in 2009. The other 3 will play extensively.

Right now our main needs are SLB, RDE, ol depth and RT (Kickers are positions we can address at any point.) We very likely will bring back Phillip Daniels to help out at DE. We may bring back Marcus Washington and Pete Kendall as well. So our immediate needs at RDE, SLB and backup OL are more or less solved. If we address RT somewhere in free agency, then we can enter the draft with the ability to pick the best player available if we stay at 13. Thats a great position to be in.

You say the FO doesnt have a plan? I see a front office that has already dramatically improved the main weaknesses of our team last year - the lines. I see a team that is getting younger and better. I see a team that is poised to add one stud player or several quality depth/future starters in this years draft. I see a team that will enter the uncapped 2010 season with a near-full complement of draft picks and very few glaring needs.

Sure the FO has missed on a couple things, but, with the exception of the Taylor trade, this team has showed a clear commitment to building for a stable, successful future the past two years. In my opinion,the franchise is moving in a better direction now than ive seen it move in a long, long time.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I understand being upset with some of the moves the FO has made, but theyve made far more good personnel moves since the 2007-2008 offseason than bad ones. Was the trade for Jason Taylor a panic move? Yes - but in the end, the only significant thing the move cost us was the 2nd round pick in this years draft. Could we have taken a great player with that pick? Possibly. But its also possible the guy we would have taken with the pick would be a bust - theres no way of knowing.

Overall, i'm very please with last years draft. We had all 22 starters from 2007 coming back, so we were able to pick up alot of project and depth guys - guys who didnt need to start right away. I think atleast 6 of the 2008 draft class are poised to play a significant role for the team in 2009.

As for this offseason - so far its been phenomenal. Free agency is two weeks old yet and so far weve signed:

Albert Hayneworth - Pro-bowl starter. Best DT in the league.
DeAngelo Hall - Pro-bowl Starter. Playmaker, interception machine.
Derrick Dockery - Starter
Ethan Albright - ST Starter
Anthony Montgommery - Starting quality DT
Kedric Golston - Starting qualtity DT
Alfred Fincher - Solid backup LB and great special teamer.

4 of those players will start in 2009. The other 3 will play extensively.

Right now our main needs are SLB, RDE, ol depth and RT (Kickers are positions we can address at any point.) We very likely will bring back Phillip Daniels to help out at DE. We may bring back Marcus Washington and Pete Kendall as well. So our immediate needs at RDE, SLB and backup OL are more or less solved. If we address RT somewhere in free agency, then we can enter the draft with the ability to pick the best player available if we stay at 13. Thats a great position to be in.

You say the FO doesnt have a plan? I see a front office that has already dramatically improved the main weaknesses of our team last year - the lines. I see a team that is getting younger and better. I see a team that is poised to add one stud player or several quality depth/future starters in this years draft. I see a team that will enter the uncapped 2010 season with a near-full complement of draft picks and very few glaring needs.

Sure the FO has missed on a couple things, but, with the exception of the Taylor trade, this team has showed a clear commitment to building for a stable, successful future the past two years. In my opinion,the franchise is moving in a better direction now than ive seen it move in a long, long time.

Thanks BHA, you even made me feel better.

[redsk1]

The FO really doesn't have long term strategy. We have, count them 4 picks in the draft this year. Let's take for example some random top performing, consistent teams in the NFL and determine how many picks they have:

Pitts: 8 1.32, 2.32, 3.32, 4.32, 5.32, 6.32, 7.17 (From TB), 7.32
Indy: 7 1.27, 2.29, 3.28, 4.27, 5.29, 6.28, 7.28
SD: 6 1.16, 3.14, 4.13, 5.12, 6.16, 7.15
Philly: 11 1.21, 1.28 (From CAR), 2.21, 3.21, 4.21, 5.5 (From CLE), 5.17 (From NYJ), 5.21, 6.21, 6.22 (From MIN), 7.21
Tenn: 6 1.30, 2.30, 3.30, 4.30, 6.30, 7.30
NE: 1.23, 2.2 (From KC), 2.15 (From SD), 2.26, 3.25, 4.24, 5.23, 6.26, 7.26

We have the lowest amount of picks in the NFL at 4. NO has 4 too. Cleveland has 5. You may say we have a different philosophy. Until I see our team as a consistent winner under said philosophy I will tell you it doesn't work. When we start being a consistently good team, i'll change my tune.

What else is there to say? We have some good talent but also have more gaps than draft picks.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by redsk1

The FO really doesn't have long term strategy. We have, count them 4 picks in the draft this year. Let's take for example some random top performing, consistent teams in the NFL and determine how many picks they have:

Pitts: 8 1.32, 2.32, 3.32, 4.32, 5.32, 6.32, 7.17 (From TB), 7.32
Indy: 7 1.27, 2.29, 3.28, 4.27, 5.29, 6.28, 7.28
SD: 6 1.16, 3.14, 4.13, 5.12, 6.16, 7.15
Philly: 11 1.21, 1.28 (From CAR), 2.21, 3.21, 4.21, 5.5 (From CLE), 5.17 (From NYJ), 5.21, 6.21, 6.22 (From MIN), 7.21
Tenn: 6 1.30, 2.30, 3.30, 4.30, 6.30, 7.30
NE: 1.23, 2.2 (From KC), 2.15 (From SD), 2.26, 3.25, 4.24, 5.23, 6.26, 7.26

We have the lowest amount of picks in the NFL at 4. NO has 4 too. Cleveland has 5. You may say we have a different philosophy. Until I see our team as a consistent winner under said philosophy I will tell you it doesn't work. When we start being a consistently good team, i'll change my tune.

What else is there to say? We have some good talent but also have more gaps than draft picks.

So you're basing this on this year alone that the FO office doesn't have a long term strategy? Ok let's take a look at the team's lack of long term strategy:

- Jason Campbell - drafted by the team, now a good starter
- Chris Cooley - drafted by the team - developed into a damn good player
- Derrick Dockery - drafted by the team - we lost him, but got him back
- Laron Landry - drafted by the team - became a starter almost immediately
- Rocky McIntosh - drafted by the team - became a starter eventually
- Chris Samuels - drafted by the team - Pro Bowl tackle
- Carlos Rogers - drafted by the team - became a solid starter
- Golston & Montgomery - drafted by the team - solid backups
- 2008 Draft Picks
* Kelly/Thomas - potential replacements for our 30something wideouts
* Davis - Can/will become a compliment to our Pro Bowl TE
*Horton - a diamond in the rough who became an immediate starter
*Brennan - potential solid back up, could become a starter some day

While the Redskins have made terrible moves in the past by giving away draft picks in the past, they have drafted and developed players as well. And last year we drafted 5 potential starters, so if that's not "future planning" I don't know what is then.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So you're basing this on this year alone that the FO office doesn't have a long term strategy? Ok let's take a look at the team's lack of long term strategy:

- Jason Campbell - drafted by the team, now a good starter
- Chris Cooley - drafted by the team - developed into a damn good player
- Derrick Dockery - drafted by the team - we lost him, but got him back
- Laron Landry - drafted by the team - became a starter almost immediately
- Rocky McIntosh - drafted by the team - became a starter eventually
- Chris Samuels - drafted by the team - Pro Bowl tackle
- Carlos Rogers - drafted by the team - became a solid starter
- Golston & Montgomery - drafted by the team - solid backups
- 2008 Draft Picks
* Kelly/Thomas - potential replacements for our 30something wideouts
* Davis - Can/will become a compliment to our Pro Bowl TE
*Horton - a diamond in the rough who became an immediate starter
*Brennan - potential solid back up, could become a starter some day

While the Redskins have made terrible moves in the past by giving away draft picks in the past, they have drafted and developed players as well. And last year we drafted 5 potential starters, so if that's not "future planning" I don't know what is then.

I just have my fingers crossed big time that Kelly and Thomas don't turn into Rod Gardner and Cliff Russell.