The Tempered Expectations Thread

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by ArtMonkDrillz

Is anyone else worried that we'll see an improved team this year, with around 7 to 9 wins, that will be looking great for the future only to have a lock out over the labor agreement that cancels the 2011 season?

2011 strike shortened? it's destiny Skins SB Champs for 2011-12 season!

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Bolded the important points. Nothing mind-blowing here, other than the fact that Gibbs beleives Snyder will step back (for now).

Gibbs told Shanahan that Snyder won't interfere | ProFootballTalk.com

Gibbs told Shanahan that Snyder won't interfere
Posted by Michael David Smith on January 7, 2010 9:40 AM ET

New Washington Redskins coach Mike Shanahan has final say over all football decisions. But can Shanahan be sure that owner Daniel Snyder won't meddle?

Shanahan says he feels confident that Snyder will support him in every way -- including getting out of the way -- and that he feels that way in part because of a conversation he had with former Redskins coach Joe Gibbs.

"All I can tell you is what Joe Gibbs said to me," Shanahan said on SIRIUS XM's Mad Dog Radio. "He said, 'Mike, you're going to get the best owner in sports.' He said, 'I've never met a guy more positive. He's got so much passion for the Redskins. He's loyal. He grew up with them. He wants to win. He's going to give you every opportunity to be successful.'

"I've known Joe for over 20 years. He said, 'He will not interfere at all. All he will do is give you support.' When Joe Gibbs tells me that, a guy that I've admired, I think you can put that in the bank."

Those comments echo what Shanahan said at his introductory press conference, and the idea that Shanahan is running things was one of the central themes of the press conference -- to the point that Snyder stayed in the back didn't take part in the press conference at all.

Whether Snyder can continue to remain in the background remains to be seen. But for now, the Redskins are Shanahan's show.

[SkinEmAll]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Let's just call it the debbie downer thread, lol, j/k

Seriously though, I'm in wait and see mode like a lot of folks. At face value though, this feels different to me than past moves. This is the first time we've seen Snyder step aside and completely hand off the football ops. There's no way either Allen or Shanahan would have agreed to come here unless they were 110% sure that Snyder will be playing the role of owner, and owner only. Snyder had established relationships with both guys coming in so I think there's a trust factor there and that's important to him.

I'm excited, Allen and Shanahan bring an element of credibility to the front office that we've been sorely lacking. I think we're finally seeing a move in a new direction for the organization. A move that will emphasis some proven and more traditional methods of putting together a winner, not this willy-nilly approach of going for the big names, trading away picks on a whim, and ignoring glaring needs until everything bottoms out.

Thats my thought completely. And you would have to be completely detached from reality if you weren't in some degree of wait and see mode, but as others have mentioned something just feels different this time and I suspect it has to do with a couple of things like Snyder getting his ass kicked in every way possible, and the whole out with the old in with the new approach as well as the sense of credibility factor. Snyder is by no means a stupid man, hes made stupid mistakes but hes not stupid and hes a brilliant business man. So if you factor in his passion for the Skins and his disgust for losing money I think he realized what he had to do.

[Schneed10]

My personality is too similar to Spock's. I can't get too high and can't get too low. Dare I say I'm naturally... medium? I totally agree with you Scud. There are areas where Shanahan can make an immediate impact, but others will take much longer.

Immediate Impact:
- Discipline. Players will toe the line or lose their jobs.

- Respect in the locker room. He brings immediate leadership credibility, so those in the locker room who didn't respect Zorn will respect Shanahan.

- Turnovers on defense. The switch away from Blache's scheme to a defensive coordinator who favors a more attacking style should help the turnover situation. This is not a certainty, we don't know who the new DC is yet, so we don't know the scheme. But if it happens, it will happen this year.

Long Term Impact:
- Offensive line personnel. Our line is so shitty that it will take multiple player acquisitions before it's built the way he wants.

- QB development. It will take Campbell or a new rookie more than one year to get up to speed.

- Running game scheme. Offensive linemen will be shuffling in and out of here over the next two years. Installing the new scheme for the running game will take time as the new line gels.

In the NFL, you can put together a decent season just by playing disciplined and winning the turnover battle. So it's possible Shanahan turns in a 9-7 season in 2010. I'm definitely not hoping for any better than that until 2011 and beyond.

[skinsguy]

I go back to when Marty Schottenheimer was hired. Yes, he started the season 0-5, but he turned the season around and got the Redskins playing disciplined, hard nosed football. The team finished 8-8. It wasn't THAT talented of a group either. Imagine what Schottenheimer could have done if allowed the time to stay and build the team. So, the BIGGEST mistake of Snyder's tenure here was firing Schotty before he even got started. This coaching carousel probably wouldn't have happened if he would have allowed Marty another season to build the team.

This is sort of a similar situation in that Shanahan is going to have final say with talent, much like Marty did. Like Matty said, this just seems much different on the surface than the other hires, including Joe Gibbs. I definitely expect an immediate improvement with this team come 2010. Like what Schneed said, I don't expect the Redskins to be completely built into a championship team come next season, but I do expect the team to be improved enough that playoffs (lol why do I hear Jim Mora's voice in my head) wouldn't be out of the question. I too think a 9-7 record is possible, which I would take in his first year over a 4-12 record any day of the week!

[RiggoDrill]

I am not going to get too excited over the beginning of the Shanahan era just yet, like many of you, I will wait to see the product on the field. However, I think it is entirely reasonable to expect Shanahan to work this team into a wild card berth next year.
The Super Bowl (or even contending for one) is several years (and several players) away from becoming a reality, but perrenial contention for the NFC East should be an immediate reality.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

My personality is too similar to Spock's. I can't get too high and can't get too low. Dare I say I'm naturally... medium? I totally agree with you Scud. There are areas where Shanahan can make an immediate impact, but others will take much longer.

Immediate Impact:
- Discipline. Players will toe the line or lose their jobs.

- Respect in the locker room. He brings immediate leadership credibility, so those in the locker room who didn't respect Zorn will respect Shanahan.

- Turnovers on defense. The switch away from Blache's scheme to a defensive coordinator who favors a more attacking style should help the turnover situation. This is not a certainty, we don't know who the new DC is yet, so we don't know the scheme. But if it happens, it will happen this year.

Long Term Impact:
- Offensive line personnel. Our line is so shitty that it will take multiple player acquisitions before it's built the way he wants.

- QB development. It will take Campbell or a new rookie more than one year to get up to speed.

- Running game scheme. Offensive linemen will be shuffling in and out of here over the next two years. Installing the new scheme for the running game will take time as the new line gels.

In the NFL, you can put together a decent season just by playing disciplined and winning the turnover battle. So it's possible Shanahan turns in a 9-7 season in 2010. I'm definitely not hoping for any better than that until 2011 and beyond.

Schneed10:

Good points here...

If indeed Shanahan can deliver on the threat that players who don't toe the line lose their jobs -- even "special players" - - that will be a HUGE improvement for 2010.

If there are any players on the Skins' roster in 2009 who have to be convinced that Mike Shanahan has earned respect as a coach, those players are dumber than dirt. Respect for the head coach - - and by extension the other people on the staff - - will be a positive improvement in 2010.

I'll wait and see how much of a defensive change is coming until I see who the new defensive coaching staff is.


Agree it will take more than one year to rebuild the OL - - unless there is a Fairy Godmother out there who loves the Redskins.

Agree there will some turmoil at QB next year but I hope the coaching staff will have made a firm decision on who is going to be the team's QB going beyond 2010 by the end of 2010. At some point, the Skins need to have a stable situation at QB.


Improving from 4-12 is not exactly one of Hercules' Twelve Labors. I expect that record to be better in 2010 but I don't see any "worst-to-first" situations here.

[MTK]

Peter King and Randy Cross this morning were talking about the OL on NFL radio, and they were discussing the fact that it doesn't take as long to get the zone blocking scheme up and running effectively over man schemes. I guess because it's more scheme over talent.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Peter King and Randy Cross this morning were talking about the OL on NFL radio, and they were discussing the fact that it doesn't take as long to get the zone blocking scheme up and running effectively over man schemes. I guess because it's more scheme over talent.

We've been zone scheme since 2008. We just don't have a whole lot of zone-scheme players outside of Heyer, and I think that really hurt the running game this year.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Peter King and Randy Cross this morning were talking about the OL on NFL radio, and they were discussing the fact that it doesn't take as long to get the zone blocking scheme up and running effectively over man schemes. I guess because it's more scheme over talent.

True, but Shanahan's zone blocking scheme relies on quickness and athleticism, something we're lacking along the line.

Heyer's slow, Randy Thomas is older and losing quickness, Mike Williams (if he plays G) is still built to be a masher as opposed to an athletic type, Rabach is still alright, Dockery is more of a drive blocker but athletic enough I guess, and Levi Jones is alright but not good enough to be the long-term answer at LT.

The scheme may go in quickly, but still won't be truly effective until we get the guys who can execute it.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

True, but Shanahan's zone blocking scheme relies on quickness and athleticism, something we're lacking along the line.

Heyer's slow, Randy Thomas is older and losing quickness, Mike Williams (if he plays G) is still built to be a masher as opposed to an athletic type, Rabach is still alright, Dockery is more of a drive blocker but athletic enough I guess, and Levi Jones is alright but not good enough to be the long-term answer at LT.

The scheme may go in quickly, but still won't be truly effective until we get the guys who can execute it.

Obviously we need new guys in here, I wasn't clear in saying that. The point King/Cross were trying to make was with Shanahan's system we can expect a quicker turnaround than with other schemes.

[Longtimefan]

Good thread GM...It demonstrates the power of positive thinking. I read all three of the links before going to bed last night, all three authors have consistently over the years pointed out the very same things they're demonstrating here.

Experience has taught me to always temper optimism and high hopes in exchange for common sense, patience and reality. People always get excited when change takes place, moreso when they've convinced themselves that the change they're moving into is going to be better than the one they're moving away from.

Someone, I think it was Landry44 posed the question; Why do people continue to think Snyder will not step back and let Allen & Shanahan run the show? Well the answer is simple, because his track record does not show that to be what he does. "Maybe" things will be different this time around, we don't know yet, but we will certainly find out. So it's only fair to those who are throughly convinced to share their moment. Many are and will remain in the W&S mode which based on all the things we've seen transpire here when it comes to coaches coming and going is an understandable attitude to take.

[SFREDSKIN]

I think the difference between the Gibbs hiring and Shanahan hiring are:

Gibbs came in at a point where the franchise didn't have a QB in place, the roster was a mess (lots of holes), etc. His level of energy wasn't there like it was like Gibbs I (he just wasn't the hard ass he used to be).

Shanahan is coming in here hungry after getting fired and has been preparing himself for almost a year for this moment to happen and prove everyone wrong. The roster is in a lot better shape with the exception of the OL and RB, I think QB play can improve with a better line.

What I see:

Danny realizes he needs to step back and let BA and MS do their thing, my main concern with Shanahan is that I want to see him hire a DC like either Gray or Zimmer and not Slowick as DC.

[tootergray34]

shanaMAN!

[skinsfan69]

i'm just glad we true professionals running the team. that's all we can ask for at this point.