QB Class gets weaker

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Sacks Taken/(Passing attempts + Sacks Taken)

Using career numbers.

I know you're wondering...John Skelton would be 7th (I think) on your list

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I know you're wondering...John Skelton would be 7th (I think) on your list

I ran some quick correlations on that sack rate data using some of my comparables, and I found that the higher the level of competition a guy faces in college, the more likely that his college sack rate is predictive in the NFL. There are always exceptions (Russell: 5.6% at LSU, 9.7% in NFL), but that bodes well for guys like Bradford and Robinson, poorly for guys like Clausen and Brown, and says basically nothing about Dan LeFevour and John Skelton.

[GTripp0012]

I know he played with Pettigrew and Okung at different times, but this may show a very rare, undervalued ability to get rid of the football, in Zac Robinson.

Or it just may say something about pass rush in the Big XII. I think we should get Orakpo's thoughts.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I know he played with Pettigrew and Okung at different times, but this may show a very rare, undervalued ability to get rid of the football, in Zac Robinson.

15 TD's and 12 Int's? I mean he does have a lot of attributes that I think are desireable but it's still not enough to make me let go of the hope that they draft Bradford first and Iupati (G, Idaho) second.

Edit: Actually, despite the fact that Iupati is going to be a quality Guard for whatever team drafts him, the fact of the matter is that he's to slow and "clumsy" to work in Shannahans system.

Height-Weight-Speed - 2 -Possesses an enormous frame and is thickly built. Top-end speed is below average for the position but his massive size makes it understandable.

I am now off the Iupati as a Redskin bandwagon. Vladamir Ducasse (G, UMass) is now my new fix for best available lineman in the second round.

Height-Weight-Speed -2 -Possesses a massive frame and above-average athleticism.

Toughness -3 -Carries weight extremely well and displays excellent core strength. Shows good aggression at the point of attack. We would like to see more of a nasty side and needs to finish on a more consistent basis.

Pass Protection -2 -Quick into sets and is light on his feet. Uses long arms well to keep rushers at bay. Slides and redirects well when recovering against double moves. Is capable of anchoring against bull rush when he plays with leverage. Footwork is a bit inconsistent and usually is the underlying cause when having problems in protection.

Run Blocking -2 - Displays a quick first step and takes strong angles to the point. Plays with balance and leverage and is able to engulf defenders with massive frame and strength. Moves well in the open field and can adjust on the move in space. However needs to take more precise angles when cutting off linebackers and could use to play with lower pad level at times.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

15 TD's and 12 Int's? I mean he does have a lot of attributes that I think are desireable but it's still not enough to make me let go of the hope that they draft Bradford first and Iupati (G, Idaho) second.

Edit: Actually, despite the fact that Iupati is going to be a quality Guard for whatever team drafts him, the fact of the matter is that he's to slow and "clumsy" to work in Shannahans system.

Height-Weight-Speed - 2 -Possesses an enormous frame and is thickly built. Top-end speed is below average for the position but his massive size makes it understandable.

I am now off the Iupati as a Redskin bandwagon. Vladamir Ducasse (G, UMass) is now my new fix for best available lineman in the second round.

Height-Weight-Speed -2 -Possesses a massive frame and above-average athleticism.

Toughness -3 -Carries weight extremely well and displays excellent core strength. Shows good aggression at the point of attack. We would like to see more of a nasty side and needs to finish on a more consistent basis.

Pass Protection -2 -Quick into sets and is light on his feet. Uses long arms well to keep rushers at bay. Slides and redirects well when recovering against double moves. Is capable of anchoring against bull rush when he plays with leverage. Footwork is a bit inconsistent and usually is the underlying cause when having problems in protection.

Run Blocking -2 - Displays a quick first step and takes strong angles to the point. Plays with balance and leverage and is able to engulf defenders with massive frame and strength. Moves well in the open field and can adjust on the move in space. However needs to take more precise angles when cutting off linebackers and could use to play with lower pad level at times.

Bradford does appear to be the best QB in the draft, but isn't 4 a little high for a QB who played two full seasons on a great team, and then...injuries and guesswork? 4 is actually really high for that.

If we're going to run the Shanahan system, I don't see a single advantage that Bradford offers over McCoy. In a more vertically adept system, possibly a future Redskins offense, I could see how Bradford would be more accomplished and more versatile, and offer more long term value over McCoy, but if one guy will be picked in the top fifteen picks, and the other will be picked in the second round, would their not be an advantage to spending the first round pick on talent at a different position?

Perhaps the gap between the No. 2 offensive tackle and No. 6 offensive tackle in this draft is just as small as the differences between McCoy and Bradford, in which case it hardly matters which direction we go. But I'd have to believe we could get a much better player with the 4th overall pick than an Iupati or Bulaga equivelent with the second round pick. At least, that's the assumption this analysis is operating on.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Bradford does appear to be the best QB in the draft, but isn't 4 a little high for a QB who played two full seasons on a great team, and then...injuries and guesswork? 4 is actually really high for that.

If we're going to run the Shanahan system, I don't see a single advantage that Bradford offers over McCoy. In a more vertically adept system, possibly a future Redskins offense, I could see how Bradford would be more accomplished and more versatile, and offer more long term value over McCoy, but if one guy will be picked in the top fifteen picks, and the other will be picked in the second round, would their not be an advantage to spending the first round pick on talent at a different position?

Perhaps the gap between the No. 2 offensive tackle and No. 6 offensive tackle in this draft is just as small as the differences between McCoy and Bradford, in which case it hardly matters which direction we go. But I'd have to believe we could get a much better player with the 4th overall pick than an Iupati or Bulaga equivelent with the second round pick. At least, that's the assumption this analysis is operating on.

If the Redskins feel that McCoy and Bradford are on the same level then I'll be all for them drafting McCoy. It's just that Shannahn seems to have a desire to throw the ball down field a little more then the traditional WCO and Bradford is good at getting the ball downfield. I've said this before but I think with Shannahan's coaching Bradford can be on par with Phillip Rivers.

Anyway yeah, lot of time between now and the draft for the front office to figure this out, but for the first time in a while I'm going to be able to sit back and not worry so much about what the front office does. So if they draft Okung first I'll be happy, Bradford - happy, trade down - happy.

In the meantime I got to look into this Bulaga guy. Your post is about the fourth or fifth time I've heard him mentioned on the forum.

[Zerohero]

Did we cut Brennan? Don't we already have a young qb to learn the new system? Are these guys magicly better because they are available in this years draft. Lets worry bout the Oline and Secondary.

[rbanerjee23]

Originally Posted by Zerohero

Did we cut Brennan? Don't we already have a young qb to learn the new system? Are these guys magicly better because they are available in this years draft. Lets worry bout the Oline and Secondary.

Amen..I really think CB/Safety are a pretty big priority after the OL...didn't we get burned time and time again for big pass plays?

[Eknox]

Dirtbag is the interior where we need to start or at tackle?, or are you considering Tupati the best available lineman at any position at that point?

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Eknox

Dirtbag is the interior where we need to start or at tackle?, or are you considering Tupati the best available lineman at any position at that point?

Dude didn't you get the memo? Iupati is sooooooo out. Ducasse, is now in vogue. Guy is not only huge but athletic. Shannahan needs the athletic part but when you add size it's a huge bonus. Thing is most athletic lineman are either under 300 or barely 300, doesn't mean that Shannahan doesn't like big guys just that most big guys don't usually have the level of footwork that the lighter guys bring to the table.

But yeah, I think we need five guys and I think taking the best guard at the top of the second round will help us more in the long run then drafting maybe the 5th or 6th best tackle. I'd rather draft an overlooked tackle in the fourth round, sign a veteran free agent and see if we can get a tackle in the first round the following year if it meant getting a pro bowl caliber guard in the second.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Dude didn't you get the memo? Iupati is sooooooo out. Ducasse, is now in vogue. Guy is not only huge but athletic. Shannahan needs the athletic part but when you add size it's a huge bonus. Thing is most athletic lineman are either under 300 or barely 300, doesn't mean that Shannahan doesn't like big guys just that most big guys don't usually have the level of footwork that the lighter guys bring to the table.

But yeah, I think we need five guys and I think taking the best guard at the top of the second round will help us more in the long run then drafting maybe the 5th or 6th best tackle. I'd rather draft an overlooked tackle in the fourth round, sign a veteran free agent and see if we can get a tackle in the first round the following year if it meant getting a pro bowl caliber guard in the second.

We should draft him simply because his name is "Vladamir." You can't have enough Vlads on your football team.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Lotus

We should draft him simply because his name is "Vladamir." You can't have enough Vlads on your football team.

Lol, I keep on leaning more towards his last name since it sounds like Du Hast. I mean guy already has a theme song.

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Any opinion of Sergio Render, G, from Va. Tech? I think he'd fit into the zone blocking scheme, though that's not what he's used to.

I actually just looked at him on Scouts Inc and for some reason I came away not liking him. However now that I look at him again he actually seems like a very good fit. Personally I can't put my finger around why I didn't think he would work in a ZBS. Looking back it might have been the adequate top end speed. I think when looking for candidates I like to see above average, but still footwork and football IQ are the most important aspects of Zone Blocking lineman.

Trait Scale
1 = Exceptional 2 = Above average 3 = Average 4 = Below average 5 = Marginal

Height-Weight-Speed -2 - Prototypical height and bulk and adequate top-end speed.

Awareness - 2 - Keeps head on a swivel and generally does a nice job of picking up line stunts/blitzes. Helps center/tackle when no one comes to him in pass protection. Appears to have some problems locating assignments at
the second level and is a better man-blocker than zone-blocker at this point.

Toughness -2 - A finisher who doesn't give up when he gets beaten off the snap and flashes the ability to put defenders on their backs when he gets into sound position. Appears to wear down at times and may lack ideal endurance.

Pass Protection -2 - Lacks elite explosiveness but is quick enough to prevent penetration in most cases. Does adequate job of sinking hips and rarely gives ground to bull-rushers. Over-commits and lunges at times so is vulnerable to effective double moves.

Run Blocking - 2 - Lower-body strength appears above-average and can drive defensive tackles off the ball when plays with sound leverage. Effective down-blocker who can collapse defensive tackles inside. Can get around the center when asked to trap. Though he doesn't show great body control in space is big enough to engulf linebackers and willing to throw his body around when he gets to the second level. Hands slip outside the defender's frame a little too often and holding could be an issue until he cleans up his technique.

I think that personally if we go QB/OT or OT/QB then Rendar would make a very smart 4th round pick. If not him then Mike Johnson (G, Alabama) would also be a smart choice. I think part of the reason you can get zone blocking lineman late in the draft is because only a handful of teams use them, just like how it used to be easy for 3-4 teams to draft their guys late since few teams used the 3-4, which is still kind of true today but a little harder since more teams are using the 3-4.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Dude didn't you get the memo? Iupati is sooooooo out. Ducasse, is now in vogue. Guy is not only huge but athletic. Shannahan needs the athletic part but when you add size it's a huge bonus. Thing is most athletic lineman are either under 300 or barely 300, doesn't mean that Shannahan doesn't like big guys just that most big guys don't usually have the level of footwork that the lighter guys bring to the table.

But yeah, I think we need five guys and I think taking the best guard at the top of the second round will help us more in the long run then drafting maybe the 5th or 6th best tackle. I'd rather draft an overlooked tackle in the fourth round, sign a veteran free agent and see if we can get a tackle in the first round the following year if it meant getting a pro bowl caliber guard in the second.

Any opinion of Sergio Render, G, from Va. Tech? I think he'd fit into the zone blocking scheme, though that's not what he's used to.

[Big C]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Any opinion of Sergio Render, G, from Va. Tech? I think he'd fit into the zone blocking scheme, though that's not what he's used to.

sergio is pretty good. but i dont think hes worth anything above a 3rd or 4th round pick.

[redskin37]

I hope we don't use the 4th pick to take any of these guys . They all have major question marks. Trade down , then best tackle and guard on the board in that order.