State of the Union (1/27/10)

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

A favorite moment? So either Alito or Obama is full of shit. Either way that's not good for America. The executive branch talking smack to the judicial on the biggest possible stage is a BAD thing.

They disagree all the time through amicus briefs and through the media, I don't see why politely disagreeing with the ruling "on the biggest possible stage" is a bad thing.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I'm not suggesting he hit the reset button. But not backing down at all off your initial agenda after a very poor first year is indicative of the arrogance of this administration. (cough *Rahm Emanuel* cough)

Poor first year? That is a matter of opinion isn't it? I mean his approval ratings is down from it's high but it still in the black.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

They disagree all the time through amicus briefs and through the media, I don't see why politely disagreeing with the ruling "on the biggest possible stage" is a bad thing.

Yeah, but how often does the POTUS call out the Supreme Court during the State of the Union? And did he even have his facts straight when he did so? Too divisive for the the SOTU. He should have kept such rhetoric to said amicus briefs.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Yeah, but how often does the POTUS call out the Supreme Court during the State of the Union? And did he even have his facts straight when he did so? Too divisive for the the SOTU. He should have kept such rhetoric to said amicus briefs.

I assure you it happens more often than you think, only this time it's Obama doing it. I acutally remember Bush doing something similar though I can't remember when and what it was about (I'll try to look for it).

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by saden1

I assure you it happens more often than you think, only this time it's Obama doing it. I acutally remember Bush doing something similar though I can't remember when and what it was about (I'll try to look for it).

That alone should've let you know it was a dumb ass move.

[djnemo65]

Two things. First, the modern Supreme Court was born out of a contentious conflict with the executive branch (Marbury v. Madison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Presidents critique the courts all the time. Bush made the rallying cry of his 04 campaign pushing back against "activist judges" who, he claimed, didn't respect American tradition.

Second, unless I missed something Obama didn't criticize the legal reasoning underpinning the decision, only its implication, and this was in the context of proposing a new law to contain the fallout out of unfettered political contributions. Had he criticized them, given his previous employment as a constitutional law professor I don't think that would have been outrageous, but he didn't even do that.

GM, you've asserted that all this is "BAD" but you haven't told us why?

[CRedskinsRule]

The "bad" thing, as I see it, is that at 2 points in the speech Obama had a chance to acknowledge the Checks and Balances of the US Constitution: first by acknowledging the Supreme Court's decision and 2nd by acknowledging the Congress' authority. In the first instance he called out the SC, and in the second he said he was going to ignore the senate vote and use an executive decision. Are these major changes to current policy procedure, probably not, but openly antagonizing the other branches, and using the presidency to demean them is not change we should believe in. Unless of course we missed the part where Lord Obama was given the cloak of infallibility.

[CRedskinsRule]

I did like a call for a freeze on spending, but can someone explain the line about that's what a budget is, cause I must be a moron. If you are over your head in debt, isn't the first thing you do cut unnecessary spending, then get your payments organized based on the money you do have? I may have misunderstood him, but it seemed like he said that we will overspend again this year with the plan to freeze spending next year, because thats what a budget is. It really didn't sound right, it sounded more like "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today".

[saden1]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I did like a call for a freeze on spending, but can someone explain the line about that's what a budget is, cause I must be a moron. If you are over your head in debt, isn't the first thing you do cut unnecessary spending, then get your payments organized based on the money you do have? I may have misunderstood him, but it seemed like he said that we will overspend again this year with the plan to freeze spending next year, because thats what a budget is. It really didn't sound right, it sounded more like "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today".

The Federal budget is created one year prior. 2010 budget was put together 2009 and is already set in stone. Around this summer the 2011 budget will be put together.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by saden1

The Federal budget is created one year prior. 2010 budget was put together 2009 and is already set in stone. Around this summer the 2011 budget will be put together.

Sounds good, but fact is, if they want to increase spending they do it through additional budget items. They can certainly freeze spending as well. I know everyone has heard it, but while in the military at the end of the fiscal year we would literally waste ammunition, so that our next year's budget number would not decrease. You could freeze spending now, today if they wanted to, but really, they don't want to, they only want to make the pledge in the election year, and then the new congress will ignore the pledge. been there done that.

[firstdown]

The two things he ran on that he actually had full control of was making the goverment more open and earmarks. He did neither but again last night talked about them as if he had no controll over them this past year. I do like the freeze on spending but we have to see how much they spend this year so they can freeze spending next year. Just more of the same stuff.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

That alone should've let you know it was a dumb ass move.

How about Reagan?

And let me add here: so many of our greatest statesmen have reminded us that spiritual values alone are essential to our nation's health and vigor. The Congress opens its proceedings each day, as does the Supreme Court, with an acknowledgment of the Supreme Being - yet we are denied the right to set aside in our schools a moment each day for those who wish to pray. I believe Congress should pass our school prayer amendment.

-Reagan
1988 State of the Union

[saden1]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Sounds good, but fact is, if they want to increase spending they do it through additional budget items. They can certainly freeze spending as well. I know everyone has heard it, but while in the military at the end of the fiscal year we would literally waste ammunition, so that our next year's budget number would not decrease. You could freeze spending now, today if they wanted to, but really, they don't want to, they only want to make the pledge in the election year, and then the new congress will ignore the pledge. been there done that.

The military is always good for supplemental budget increase that's for sure. Is it possible to tell agencies your next check is going to be 5% less than what you expect? Yes. Is this the best way to do it? No. For a ship this big you have to plan for these things.

The biggest mistake Obama made was taking the Military, SS, Medicare/Medicaid budget cuts off the table. To tell you the truth, the whole thing is a gimmick no matter whether he does it now or next year as those programs account for 90% of the fucking budget.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by saden1

Since Schneed10 is a budget expert I would love to hear him address your "didn't he quadruple national debt" question.

Yeah I'm not sure where that came from, the US is $12 trillion in debt. Remember, debt is a snapshot of what we owe as of this moment. The deficit is the amount we are going into further debt on a yearly basis.

So far in his presidency, Obama has added $1 trillion to the deficit. Meaning because of his actions, if nothing else is done, we will owe one trillion more at this time next year than we otherwise would have.

If he gets other things accomplished, he can improve that number.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by saden1

The military is always good for supplemental budget increase that's for sure. Is it possible to tell agencies your next check is going to be 5% less than what you expect? Yes. Is this the best way to do it? No. For a ship this big you have to plan for these things.

The biggest mistake Obama made was taking the Military, SS, Medicare/Medicaid budget cuts off the table. To tell you the truth, the whole thing is a gimmick no matter whether he does it now or next year as those programs account for 90% of the fucking budget.

I think we have had this discussion before, I applauded him for cutting the one military project, and I agree that taking the Military/SS/Medicare off the table shows it's a gimmick, a sound bite and not a real attempt to resolve it. Whatever tho, he has enough votes that he should be pushing his agenda and let the dice land where they will, not blaming a 40 senate republican opposition for stalemating him.