Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...

[SBXVII]

I don't think it matters how much we love him or hate him. The facts are the facts. Did he use or was given a substance thats on the banned list? If yes then to be fair he should be punished. The only reason Cushing is getting bashed is the fact that he received a reward and has excepted it. Even after his issues came to light and everyone found out he cheated/used and banned substance. If Moss was in the same boat to be fair I'd say the same things about Moss.

Is Moss an evil person? No. Did he use if to get bigger or faster? I doubt it, atleast until all the facts come out. Was it for personal gain? Technically yes. It, I presume, was to help him heal faster and if its on the banned list then we have to lable him a cheater.

I have my own reasons for thinking we should move on from Moss. Part of it is age, part when I think of him I think of him often injured with a hammy or groin pull. Last yr did not do him service in Zorn's crappy offense either. It seemed teams doubled up him. I hope if and when he starts to play this yr he comes out guns a blazing. That would be a big step in me forgetting his past few yrs.

[SolidSnake84]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I don't think it matters how much we love him or hate him. The facts are the facts. Did he use or was given a substance thats on the banned list? If yes then to be fair he should be punished. The only reason Cushing is getting bashed is the fact that he received a reward and has excepted it. Even after his issues came to light and everyone found out he cheated/used and banned substance. If Moss was in the same boat to be fair I'd say the same things about Moss.

Is Moss an evil person? No. Did he use if to get bigger or faster? I doubt it, atleast until all the facts come out. Was it for personal gain? Technically yes. It, I presume, was to help him heal faster and if its on the banned list then we have to lable him a cheater.

I have my own reasons for thinking we should move on from Moss. Part of it is age, part when I think of him I think of him often injured with a hammy or groin pull. Last yr did not do him service in Zorn's crappy offense either. It seemed teams doubled up him. I hope if and when he starts to play this yr he comes out guns a blazing. That would be a big step in me forgetting his past few yrs.

He's slowed more than a step, and while still quick, his frequent hamstring and groin injuries make him no more than a solid number 2 receiver, maybe even a 3rd at this stage in his career. He seems like a good guy, and he would be a good mentor to the young receivers. He has been in some big games and made good plays, and has tons of advice to give..

I still think the team should sign T.O. to fill in while Moss is gone. Most likely T.O. plays so well that we can integrate them both.....

[SBXVII]

Maybe nows the time for the league to look into having specific doctors for the most common ailments players get. The players visit those doctors only and get treated by them. Kinda like an HMO. These would be doctors that work for the league and know the rules. If a player or team has any question about the drugs or vitamines they are interested in taking then the doctor should be able to answer the question for them. Hopefully it would also eliminate players getting their hands on substances that are on the banned list. If a player is found to have used after all that then it's definitly on the player for "cheating."

If the player chooses to use his own doctor then he runs the risk of getting into trouble and punished if he takes a banned prescription drug.

[Chico23231]

Moss has been probably my favorite Redskin over the last decade, but if he cheated he should first come out and state it and give an explination why. Then he should be punished by the commish, probably looking at 4 games. No pass here. I think he probably used to get through injury, but cheating is cheating...

[KLHJ2]

This is why I cannot get mad at him.

>> The player told authorities he never knowingly received HGH. He got IV drips, injections to his knees, and B-12 shots to his arm.

Redskins Insider - Canadian doctor charged with supplying HGH was traveling to treat player in Washington

It's not like he was doping up with it with the intent of making himself stronger or a better athlete. He was trying to get healthy and wrongfully trusted a doctor in the process. Judging from what I think I know of his character he just doesn't seem like the guy who would try to cheat to put up big numbers. His play on the field didn't reflect that of an abuser either.

To be fair though he should have to serve a 2-4 game suspension because the rules are the rules. In my mind however, I am never going to look at Tanna differently because he is a good character guy.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Angry

This is why I cannot get mad at him.



Redskins Insider - Canadian doctor charged with supplying HGH was traveling to treat player in Washington

It's not like he was doping up with it with the intent of making himself stronger or a better athlete. He was trying to get healthy and wrongfully trusted a doctor in the process. Judging from what I think I know of his character he just doesn't seem like the guy who would try to cheat to put up big numbers. His play on the field didn't reflect that of an abuser either.

To be fair though he should have to serve a 2-4 game suspension because the rules are the rules. In my mind however, I am never going to look at Tanna differently because he is a good character guy.

I know very little about HGH and other types of illegal substances like HGH, so I do not pretend to be an expert. So I went on line to read a little about it. The first some what trusted news source (wall street journal) article I found says there is now Clinical proof that HGH does improve certain athletic skills like SPRINTING by 4%.

From the article.

"New England Journal of Medicine study published two decades ago found HGH had anti-aging effects on men over 60. That sparked the creation of an entire industry, notable for its testimonials by creepy-looking men who seem to have acquired 40-year-old bodies beneath their 65-year-old heads. (Some of those claims have sparked a warning appended to the NEJM study saying the research has “been cited in potentially misleading e-mail advertisements.”)

But there wasn’t much evidence to show that HGH did much to make athletes run faster, jump higher or hit more home runs, as the Health Blog reported in 2008. That is, until earlier this month, when researchers published the first evidence suggesting HGH has limited effects on athletic performance.

The randomized trial of more than 100 recreational athletes of both sexes was sponsored by the World Anti-Doping Agency (which bans the use of HGH in competitive athletes) and published in the Annals of Internal Medicine. It found that growth hormone improved sprinting ability by about 4% but not other measures of athletic performance the researchers tracked, such as endurance, strength or power. Men who also got testosterone injections saw an 8% boost in sprinting performance. Researchers said the study was too small to gauge the safety of HGH; side effects reported by study participants were minor and included swelling and joint pain.

It’s not clear whether the same results would translate to elite athletes, but the researchers told the AP that applying the improvement to a 10-second, 100-meter sprint would make the difference between winning and finishing last.

Does Human Growth Hormone Actually Do Anything for Athletes? - Health Blog - WSJ

Sorry this post is so long. I think we need more research on this to make a definitive claim, but clearly almost every legitimate sport has banned HGH. There is a reason . I do not think we can say Moss should get a pass on this just because he was using for injury.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Angry

This is why I cannot get mad at him.



Redskins Insider - Canadian doctor charged with supplying HGH was traveling to treat player in Washington

It's not like he was doping up with it with the intent of making himself stronger or a better athlete. He was trying to get healthy and wrongfully trusted a doctor in the process. Judging from what I think I know of his character he just doesn't seem like the guy who would try to cheat to put up big numbers. His play on the field didn't reflect that of an abuser either.

To be fair though he should have to serve a 2-4 game suspension because the rules are the rules. In my mind however, I am never going to look at Tanna differently because he is a good character guy.

I like most of have only know about Hgh thru what i read from sports reporters in their sports articles. i thought, like the article defensewins links, Hgh can provide an enhancement, however the benefit is marginal or small. (marginal compared to what? roids?).

but if santana was only getting IV drips, etc and not HgHG, why did he have to set up appointments with this canadian doctor in hotel rooms in DC? why couldnt he just get IV drips from the skins training staff or any local medical provider?

I dont know if santana was doing it to heal, enhance his body or both but like redskins134425 and i said earlier, there seems to be no way of telling how much and where a person injected HgH so a player is always going to say he was doing it to rehab and speed up healing of an injury.

Dcto AZ - the rodney harrison suspension is almost identical to moss'. while there is no current test for HgH which the NFL has adopted, if a player admits to using it or is under investigation by the feds, that right there is your positive test. santana already admitted to using HgH to feds in sept. '09 (i believe). we'll just have to wait and see how this shakes out but if there are 20 someodd nfl players on the list of players this doctor has treated (one being a huge name in the nfl), this could get messier and bigger real quick.

[Gmanc711]

I am not gonna give Moss a pass....but I also don't really care. I just don't. I didn't care when Merriman got caught, I didnt care when Cushing got caught, I dont care now that Moss got caught. Moss broke the rules, he should face the same types of penalties anyone else does. If it comes out Tom Brady was with this guy, he should be right there too. Do I wish the game was 100% clean, without a doubt. I wish there was not a single drug in any sport... but I know thats never going to be a realistic thing, so I just am kind of over it right off the bat.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

I am not gonna give Moss a pass....but I also don't really care. I just don't. I didn't care when Merriman got caught, I didnt care when Cushing got caught, I dont care now that Moss got caught. Moss broke the rules, he should face the same types of penalties anyone else does. If it comes out Tom Brady was with this guy, he should be right there too. Do I wish the game was 100% clean, without a doubt. I wish there was not a single drug in any sport... but I know thats never going to be a realistic thing, so I just am kind of over it right off the bat.

You're mixing things up here.

Merriman, Cushing = roids = blatant cheating, gained strength and ability
Moss = HGH = injury treatment, no performance benefits

[redskins121684]

Originally Posted by Buster

You're mixing things up here.

Merriman, Cushing = roids = blatant cheating, gained strength and ability
Moss = HGH = injury treatment, no performance benefits

You're right but HGH does have the ability to increase athletic performance, it all depends on the application of the drug. We lump those who might be using HGH for rehabilitation purposes in with those who use if for performance enhancing purposes because the NFL PED policy makes no differentiation, using is using. It's also hard to determine at what point the application of HGH is no longer necessary to rehab the injury, meaning if the injury has healed and the drug continues to be applied then you could be enhancing performance.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Buster

You're mixing things up here.

Merriman, Cushing = roids = blatant cheating, gained strength and ability
Moss = HGH = injury treatment, no performance benefits

Its still not a legal substance. As I stated I really dont care all that much, and I dont view Moss any differently now than I did last week at this time...but I have a feeling if this was Roy Williams or Jason Witten or soemthing, we might be singing a little bit of a different tune.

[redskins121684]

Originally Posted by Angry
This is why I cannot get mad at him.



Redskins Insider - Canadian doctor charged with supplying HGH was traveling to treat player in Washington

It's not like he was doping up with it with the intent of making himself stronger or a better athlete. He was trying to get healthy and wrongfully trusted a doctor in the process. Judging from what I think I know of his character he just doesn't seem like the guy who would try to cheat to put up big numbers. His play on the field didn't reflect that of an abuser either.

To be fair though he should have to serve a 2-4 game suspension because the rules are the rules. In my mind however, I am never going to look at Tanna differently because he is a good character guy.

Agreed.

[DCtoAZ]

People need to understand that HGH is not steriods ... i hate all the fuss about HGH .. if there is something out there that can help a player or person heal at all why not use this ? Why is not legal period. Steroids are a different animal...........Moss will not even sniff a suspension on this matter .. they don't test for HGH so wtf did you do against the rules ?? I'll await your responses....

[SolidSnake84]

As of about 12:30 PM, the other name being tossed out there is Tom Brady.....

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by SolidSnake84

As of about 12:30 PM, the other name being tossed out there is Tom Brady.....

Ha, I'll give up Santana for a month to see the pretty boy finally get nailed for something.