Gibb's press confrence.

MTK · 12-28-2004, 10:35 AM

I know some will twist this in to us letting the coaches off the hook and that's not the case.

The entire team deserves to take the blame from the coaches on down.

Daseal · 12-28-2004, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Matty, like you I'm sick and tired of everyone blaming the coach. Its always the coach, the scheme, the playcalling, and never the players. It's just getting old.

You mean it's always the coach, till Gibbs comes back to coach, right? If this were nearly any other coach everyone on this board would be screaming for his head. The players can only do so much when they're not given an oppurtunity to make big plays.

That WP or WT article that Redskins_P posted looks great, but Gibbs has been a lot of talk this year. Who here doesn't want a balanced attack? However, we've eliminated any sort of big play capability by ourselves! We need to open up the offense. We have a QB with an arm and we have some real speed at WR in a healthy (hopefully next year) Coles and Taylor Jacobs.

Why shouldn't there be criticism. Our offense only got more talent added to it and is performing worse.

Cut Taylor Jacobs? The poor guy hasn't been given a legitimate chance! He was talking about how great he was in training camp; guess he wasn't great enough for some play time. I don't remember him dropping a single ball thrown within his vicinity, and he made one really big play against Dallas.

In my mind, Joe Gibbs has another full year to get the offense moving. After that, I'd like an offensive coordinator.

Redskins_P · 12-28-2004, 11:17 AM

Daseal, like I said I don't mind the criticism. But theres no reason to disrespect Gibbs.

When your record is 5-10, you will get criticized and I understand that. And Gibbs is the type of guy that will take the blame for everything. He has said it over and over again.

It just seems like some people here think that he's not capable of turning this around or that he's too old. Thats a crock of BS if you ask me.

It's just taking longer than all of us thought.

Daseal · 12-28-2004, 11:22 AM

I think it's very probable he'll turn it around. He's smart and knows what he has to do to win. If that means O coordinator I feel he'll do it. However, I also see that there's a possibility he doesn't turn it around, which is very real and seems to be dismissed or ignored because people can't fathom that Gibbs could fail his second time around.

Redskins_P · 12-28-2004, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

However, I also see that there's a possibility he doesn't turn it around, which is very real and seems to be dismissed or ignored because people can't fathom that Gibbs could fail his second time around.

I don't see that happening. Call it blind faith or whatever but I truly believe that Gibbs will bring us back to the glory days.

And if I'm wrong Daseal, you can be the first to call me out and serve me that hot plate of crow.

MTK · 12-28-2004, 11:35 AM

How about we just give him the time necessary to turn a team around.

People have been saying the game has passed him by since very early in the season, that's just ridiculous.

offiss · 12-28-2004, 12:37 PM

The problem I have with this whole thing and my reasoning for saying he doesn't have it anymore is this, he doesn't see thing's for what they are, why would we have a consevative passing game when everybody on the planet is chucking the ball downfield? Gibb's is living in the past, with the new can't remotly touch the reciever rule you have to throw deep to many good thing's can happen not to, and Gibb's is throwing pass pattern's on 3rd down's short of first down yardage constantly, throw it deep you have a good chance of a penalty, or here's a thought you might complete it for a first down, if it's picked off big deal it's like a punt anyway, Gibb's keep's saying everytime he's asked why he doesn't take shot's downfield? And he say's we took a lot of shot's downfield, Im not seeing it where are we taking shot's downfield? Obviously the people who keep asking these question's aren't seeing it either yet he insist's we are, somebody here inform me of what I am missing, Gibb's said what's in the past as far as his accomplishment's are in the past they don't count anymore, well I agree I am evaluating him for what he has done so far this year, and the problem is not that we are losing, it's how we are losing that is the big concern, I don't want to hear after a press confrence of how good the cowboy's defense is, IT'S NOT GOOD! In other word's Gibb's tries to credit the vaunted Dallas defense with stopping our offense, rather than crediting our pathetic offense which he is in charge of for stopping itself!

Redskins_P · 12-28-2004, 12:50 PM

So, after 15 games you already think Gibbs can't do it anymore? After being out of the game for 12 years? You only give him one season?

See, this is the problem with us Redskins fans. We want everything to be fixed right away. 12 years of mediocrity will suddenly change after 15 games? So, now what? We need another new head coach? Make the players learn another scheme again? Go after more expensive free agents? Open up the passing game? Last year when we did have a "downfield" passing game, wasn't our QB getting killed? And we still ended up with a 5-11 record!

MTK · 12-28-2004, 01:55 PM

I agree Redskins_P and I made a similar point in another thread. We could open up the offense for what it's worth and play the 'chuck and duck' style we had the last 2 years and in the process get Ramsey pounded in to the turf. That philosophy got us 12 wins the last 2 years.

We will see the offense open up when we have a line that can properly protect the QB. Having Jansen back will make a huge difference, and hopefully some other upgrades (center) will also make a difference.

Daseal · 12-28-2004, 02:18 PM

12 wins > 10 we're on track for. With better assistants I'd say we could go to an 8 or 9 win season without much problem with the "chuck and duck"

Offiss and I aren't calling for a resignation. However, I personally can't understand the blind faith and sticking up for his actions when 95% of all unbiased observers I've talked to agree that it is playcalling and not execution killing us. I think because you're in love with Gibbs it's clouding your vision. Every coach has 3 years in my book, that includes my boy Spurrier. He had one more year to take a decent run at the playoffs before I wanted someone new. I give the same courtesy to every coach, but that doesn't mean I have to stand by their every move till that three year grace period is up.

Redskins_P · 12-28-2004, 02:47 PM

Daseal, why do you call it "blind" faith?

I mean, Gibbs is a proven coach. Not to mention he's in the HOF. Whats wrong with having faith in that?

Look, I respect your opinion, and all your criticizm. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that people think that Gibbs is sooo stubborn that he won't change his ways. That's rediculous.

GoSkins! · 12-28-2004, 03:03 PM

If we could consistantly execute like we did in the second Giants game would anyone still have a problem with the Gibbs system? The problem that we have now is personel. Gibbs likes to line up and dare you to stop him. We will do fine against weaker teams.
The problem today is that Gibbs may be a victim of the cap and have to change his philosophy. I think that he will identify the weak links (players) this year and fill them in the offseason. He will then try to run his style of football again. If it still doesn't work, I believe he will change philosophy, coaching, coaches, or anything that he has to so that he can win. He will change is he needs to because he can't stand to lose. That is why he spends all the long hours at work.
AND, why do I keep hearing about "Marty Ball"? Yes, the guy is having a good year in SD, and I'm sure he would have done good here. At the start of this year people were talking about him not lasting the season if his team didn't shape up. Everyone should learn a lesson about how a little patience can pay big dividends.

SkinsRock · 12-28-2004, 03:30 PM

How about having the same head coach, offensive and defensive "coordinators" (the play-callers...Gibbs and Williams) for more than one year for the first time in what, 6 years???
I'd like to see Gibbs bring in a younger offensive mind into the mix, but even if he doesn't, I have "seeing" faith (NOT blind) that the Skins will be improved next year. All along he has said that this is a process, and while I'm sure he didn't plan for the season to go the way it has gone, he and the coaching staff will sit back and figure out what to do to fix things. This includes weeding out non-core players, deciding where we need help and/or depth and tweaking the system better to the core players' strengths and to "today's NFL, etc...

MTK · 12-28-2004, 04:00 PM

To Daseal it's blind faith if you don't place the majority of the blame for the offensive woes on Gibbs.

I really wish we didn't lose the board back in February, because I would love to read you defending Spurrier's horrible coaching job. I don't recall you placing 85% of the blame on your boy last year.

Daseal · 12-28-2004, 04:33 PM

Matty: I admitted on several occasions, just like I do now, that Spurrier had a brunt of the blame. 85% of the blame went on the coaching staff, just like this year. However, I didn't have much beef with Spurriers offense (you know, the part of the game he controled) as I did with Heston and Edwards. This year with Bugel and Williams there's little to complain about, both assistants are doing well and a majority of the problems come from the offensive play calling. Guess who does that? Last year you blamed Spurrier for all the problems, even though he left the defense alone. Imagine if Greg Williams regressed with our defense like Gibbs regressed with our offense. You'd be blaming Williams right now, not Gibbs. You simply are too loyal to admit any wrong doing.

I also would LOVE to see the board from last Feburary so I can see you ripping Spurrier for playcalling after putting up two TDs and a FG or two. Or maybe for throwing it into the endzone instead of running it up the gut 3 times for a FG.

12-28-2004, 03:03 PM	#27
GoSkins! The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Yorktown, Va Age: 56 Posts: 1,587	If we could consistantly execute like we did in the second Giants game would anyone still have a problem with the Gibbs system? The problem that we have now is personel. Gibbs likes to line up and dare you to stop him. We will do fine against weaker teams. The problem today is that Gibbs may be a victim of the cap and have to change his philosophy. I think that he will identify the weak links (players) this year and fill them in the offseason. He will then try to run his style of football again. If it still doesn't work, I believe he will change philosophy, coaching, coaches, or anything that he has to so that he can win. He will change is he needs to because he can't stand to lose. That is why he spends all the long hours at work. AND, why do I keep hearing about "Marty Ball"? Yes, the guy is having a good year in SD, and I'm sure he would have done good here. At the start of this year people were talking about him not lasting the season if his team didn't shape up. Everyone should learn a lesson about how a little patience can pay big dividends. __________________ Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts. A. Einstien

12-28-2004, 10:35 AM	#16
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	I know some will twist this in to us letting the coaches off the hook and that's not the case. The entire team deserves to take the blame from the coaches on down.

12-28-2004, 11:17 AM	#18
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 47 Posts: 4,101	Daseal, like I said I don't mind the criticism. But theres no reason to disrespect Gibbs. When your record is 5-10, you will get criticized and I understand that. And Gibbs is the type of guy that will take the blame for everything. He has said it over and over again. It just seems like some people here think that he's not capable of turning this around or that he's too old. Thats a crock of BS if you ask me. It's just taking longer than all of us thought.

12-28-2004, 11:22 AM	#19
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	I think it's very probable he'll turn it around. He's smart and knows what he has to do to win. If that means O coordinator I feel he'll do it. However, I also see that there's a possibility he doesn't turn it around, which is very real and seems to be dismissed or ignored because people can't fathom that Gibbs could fail his second time around.

12-28-2004, 11:35 AM	#21
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	How about we just give him the time necessary to turn a team around. People have been saying the game has passed him by since very early in the season, that's just ridiculous.

12-28-2004, 12:37 PM	#22
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 61 Posts: 3,097	The problem I have with this whole thing and my reasoning for saying he doesn't have it anymore is this, he doesn't see thing's for what they are, why would we have a consevative passing game when everybody on the planet is chucking the ball downfield? Gibb's is living in the past, with the new can't remotly touch the reciever rule you have to throw deep to many good thing's can happen not to, and Gibb's is throwing pass pattern's on 3rd down's short of first down yardage constantly, throw it deep you have a good chance of a penalty, or here's a thought you might complete it for a first down, if it's picked off big deal it's like a punt anyway, Gibb's keep's saying everytime he's asked why he doesn't take shot's downfield? And he say's we took a lot of shot's downfield, Im not seeing it where are we taking shot's downfield? Obviously the people who keep asking these question's aren't seeing it either yet he insist's we are, somebody here inform me of what I am missing, Gibb's said what's in the past as far as his accomplishment's are in the past they don't count anymore, well I agree I am evaluating him for what he has done so far this year, and the problem is not that we are losing, it's how we are losing that is the big concern, I don't want to hear after a press confrence of how good the cowboy's defense is, IT'S NOT GOOD! In other word's Gibb's tries to credit the vaunted Dallas defense with stopping our offense, rather than crediting our pathetic offense which he is in charge of for stopping itself!

12-28-2004, 12:50 PM	#23
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 47 Posts: 4,101	So, after 15 games you already think Gibbs can't do it anymore? After being out of the game for 12 years? You only give him one season? See, this is the problem with us Redskins fans. We want everything to be fixed right away. 12 years of mediocrity will suddenly change after 15 games? So, now what? We need another new head coach? Make the players learn another scheme again? Go after more expensive free agents? Open up the passing game? Last year when we did have a "downfield" passing game, wasn't our QB getting killed? And we still ended up with a 5-11 record!

12-28-2004, 01:55 PM	#24
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	I agree Redskins_P and I made a similar point in another thread. We could open up the offense for what it's worth and play the 'chuck and duck' style we had the last 2 years and in the process get Ramsey pounded in to the turf. That philosophy got us 12 wins the last 2 years. We will see the offense open up when we have a line that can properly protect the QB. Having Jansen back will make a huge difference, and hopefully some other upgrades (center) will also make a difference.

12-28-2004, 02:18 PM	#25
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	12 wins > 10 we're on track for. With better assistants I'd say we could go to an 8 or 9 win season without much problem with the "chuck and duck" Offiss and I aren't calling for a resignation. However, I personally can't understand the blind faith and sticking up for his actions when 95% of all unbiased observers I've talked to agree that it is playcalling and not execution killing us. I think because you're in love with Gibbs it's clouding your vision. Every coach has 3 years in my book, that includes my boy Spurrier. He had one more year to take a decent run at the playoffs before I wanted someone new. I give the same courtesy to every coach, but that doesn't mean I have to stand by their every move till that three year grace period is up.

12-28-2004, 02:47 PM	#26
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 47 Posts: 4,101	Daseal, why do you call it "blind" faith? I mean, Gibbs is a proven coach. Not to mention he's in the HOF. Whats wrong with having faith in that? Look, I respect your opinion, and all your criticizm. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that people think that Gibbs is sooo stubborn that he won't change his ways. That's rediculous.

12-28-2004, 03:30 PM	#28
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	How about having the same head coach, offensive and defensive "coordinators" (the play-callers...Gibbs and Williams) for more than one year for the first time in what, 6 years??? I'd like to see Gibbs bring in a younger offensive mind into the mix, but even if he doesn't, I have "seeing" faith (NOT blind) that the Skins will be improved next year. All along he has said that this is a process, and while I'm sure he didn't plan for the season to go the way it has gone, he and the coaching staff will sit back and figure out what to do to fix things. This includes weeding out non-core players, deciding where we need help and/or depth and tweaking the system better to the core players' strengths and to "today's NFL, etc...

12-28-2004, 04:00 PM	#29
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,832	To Daseal it's blind faith if you don't place the majority of the blame for the offensive woes on Gibbs. I really wish we didn't lose the board back in February, because I would love to read you defending Spurrier's horrible coaching job. I don't recall you placing 85% of the blame on your boy last year.

12-28-2004, 04:33 PM	#30
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Matty: I admitted on several occasions, just like I do now, that Spurrier had a brunt of the blame. 85% of the blame went on the coaching staff, just like this year. However, I didn't have much beef with Spurriers offense (you know, the part of the game he controled) as I did with Heston and Edwards. This year with Bugel and Williams there's little to complain about, both assistants are doing well and a majority of the problems come from the offensive play calling. Guess who does that? Last year you blamed Spurrier for all the problems, even though he left the defense alone. Imagine if Greg Williams regressed with our defense like Gibbs regressed with our offense. You'd be blaming Williams right now, not Gibbs. You simply are too loyal to admit any wrong doing. I also would LOVE to see the board from last Feburary so I can see you ripping Spurrier for playcalling after putting up two TDs and a FG or two. Or maybe for throwing it into the endzone instead of running it up the gut 3 times for a FG.

Gibb's press confrence.

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