Are you buying into the Shanaplan?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Reid was also the Jedi Master of clock mismanagement.

Reid was the worst coach for clock management and was absolutely abysmal at play calling on the goal line. Isn't he the moron that would throw a challenge flag on practically anything?

WHAT? Two inches in the difference in that spot Mr. Ref!!! I"M CHALLENGING THIS!!

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

To be fair, I blame the run game on Reid. He seemed to refuse to commit to it. When he did, Westbrook had some really good rushing games.

As for the whole TO thing. McNabb completed plenty of deep passes without him. As well as they won every playoff game that year that TO did not play in and lost the only one that TO did play in. Having bad WR's wasnt one of McNabbs problems. McNabbs problem was that if you took away the deep game and had LB's that could stop the screen game, The Eagles offense stalled due to the fact that it could only do three things, and Andy Reid was allergic to running the ball, so the Eagles offense only did two things. Reid schemed both into his plays. If McNabb found one or the other, good things happened. Otherwise, not so much. Pick your poison and McNabb posted great stats, able to stop both and McNabb became average at best.

At the risk of hi-jacking this thread (as if we hadnt already-lol), TO is also the only one that showed up in that superbowl. I agree with everything you are saying, i think were just looking at it through opposite sides of the glass. Its not really Mcnabbs fault that Reid was allergic to the running game or acquiring talent and or any sort of depth at the wr position for many of Mcnabbs years there. He leaned heavily on McNabbs mobility and arm strength for many years and it took him to the cusp of a few championships. Like any qb he was only as strong as the weapons around him. I personally think he put that teams offense on his back for several years and had a very impressive go at it.
Anyway - Go Skins.

[skinsfaninok]

I'd fire the whole staff even after our Superbowl win in 4 weeks.....

[CRedskinsRule]

suspiciously absent from the votes are names like Goat and GTripp. interesting, given the strong feelings they seemed to have for their position.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

suspiciously absent from the votes are names like Goat and GTripp. interesting, given the strong feelings they seemed to have for their position.

They're just waiting for it to get really lopsided before they vote. Still too close right now...

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

suspiciously absent from the votes are names like Goat and GTripp. interesting, given the strong feelings they seemed to have for their position.

Can't speak for GTripp per se but somewhere he said extensions now are a good idea, which kinda sounds like buying in.

I'm on the fence. We have accomplished exactly what we should have this season i.e. division champs in a surprisingly weak division (year). The Cowboys defense was a fraction of its original strength because of injuries. The Eagles lost their best player and other starting olineman, and then the whole team fell to pieces. The Giants had SB hangover. Prior to the season started, 8-8 was my minimum expectation, and that was before we knew 1) how insanely good RG is 2) that our division rivals were gonna have relatively bad years.

How we got to 10-6 is super exciting because of the win steak, but given the big picture this is where we should have been all along. All the staff have earned their current contract. A playoff win gets my buy-in. Losing wildcard weekend tells me we won't know what we have till next season.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Can't speak for GTripp per se but somewhere he said extensions now are a good idea, which kinda sounds like buying in.

I'm on the fence. We have accomplished exactly what we should have this season i.e. division champs in a surprisingly weak division (year). The Cowboys defense was a fraction of its original strength because of injuries. The Eagles lost their best player and other starting olineman, and then the whole team fell to pieces. The Giants had SB hangover. Prior to the season started, 8-8 was my minimum expectation, and that was before we knew 1) how insanely good RG is 2) that our division rivals were gonna have relatively bad years.

How we got to 10-6 is super exciting because of the win steak, but given the big picture this is where we should have been all along. All the staff have earned their current contract. A playoff win gets my buy-in. Losing wildcard weekend tells me we won't know what we have till next season.

I don't know about you, but I knew that these Washington Redskins were going to turn the corner at some point. You could see the signs back in preseason when they were putting up points on offense. Then the first game against New Orleans confirmed that what we saw in the preseason wasn't a fluke. We lost some close games earlier in the season to some pretty good teams. I knew this team could compete. At 3-6, the Redskins should have been 8-1 or maybe 7-2.

I was counting the Eagles, Cowboys, and especially the Giants out before the season started. The NFC Eastern division was ours to take at whatever point in the season. Kudos to Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Coach Haz, and the Redskins players for showing us what they're truly capable of.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

suspiciously absent from the votes are names like Goat and GTripp. interesting, given the strong feelings they seemed to have for their position.

In my case, the absence is intentional because 'yes' and 'no' wouldn't adequately explain my position on this issue.

I mean, a lot of it depends on the upcoming offseason. Personally, I don't think people adequately adjusted their expectations when the Redskins went all in for RG3, so a lot of people perceive a team ahead of the curve, whereas I see a team not completely dissimilar to the 2005 and 2007 outfits that made aggressive offseason moves, got hot, and paid off an aggressive offseason with a playoff berth.

That's not really a long-term "plan" necessarily, but the Redskins are now in a totally different position than they were a year ago, meaning I'm looking to see how they build themselves in the offseason before I vote yes.

On the other hand, voting no would suggest I think the recent win streak is a complete fluke, and I don't think that is the case at all. I think it's the results of an aggressive process: i.e. trading for RG3 and finding Morris in the 6th round, as well as developing a strong offensive line.

[GoSkins!]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

In my case, the absence is intentional because 'yes' and 'no' wouldn't adequately explain my position on this issue.

I mean, a lot of it depends on the upcoming offseason. Personally, I don't think people adequately adjusted their expectations when the Redskins went all in for RG3, so a lot of people perceive a team ahead of the curve, whereas I see a team not completely dissimilar to the 2005 and 2007 outfits that made aggressive offseason moves, got hot, and paid off an aggressive offseason with a playoff berth.

That's not really a long-term "plan" necessarily, but the Redskins are now in a totally different position than they were a year ago, meaning I'm looking to see how they build themselves in the offseason before I vote yes.

On the other hand, voting no would suggest I think the recent win streak is a complete fluke, and I don't think that is the case at all. I think it's the results of an aggressive process: i.e. trading for RG3 and finding Morris in the 6th round, as well as developing a strong offensive line.

What do you mean here? I get that the trade for RG3 is aggressive, but how is finding a franchise RB in the 6th round and developing a strong offensive line aggressive? I would think that developing the strong line would be consistent with a good plan, as would bringing in a good fit at RB and good blocking WRs for the running game. I still consider finding Morris pure luck more than anything else. I guess one could argue that a management plan that calls for drafting a diamond in the rough RB in late rounds year after year until you find thet right guy is a "plan" but I'm not sure. At any rate, excepting RG3, to me the moves seem very different than those of Gibbs 2.0.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

What do you mean here? I get that the trade for RG3 is aggressive, but how is finding a franchise RB in the 6th round and developing a strong offensive line aggressive? I would think that developing the strong line would be consistent with a good plan, as would bringing in a good fit at RB and good blocking WRs for the running game. I still consider finding Morris pure luck more than anything else. I guess one could argue that a management plan that calls for drafting a diamond in the rough RB in late rounds year after year until you find thet right guy is a "plan" but I'm not sure. At any rate, excepting RG3, to me the moves seem very different than those of Gibbs 2.0.

In Morris' case, it was more that he started day 1 than was selected. And I'm aware that Shanahan had a long history of doing such a thing, but still, we've come a long way from the Larry Johnson/Willie Parker days. I agree with you that it's luck to an extent.

The OL was pieced together through a lot of different methods, including street free agents, pricey free agents, and a high draft pick. Key there is the durability of the players they've assembled.

RG3 was the big one. It had to work and it had to work fast to get us where we are right now. We traded for a potential difference maker in the playoffs, someone who we could not have gotten later in the draft. Russell Wilson notwithstanding.

[GTripp0012]

It's funny because I've been told countless times around these parts that it takes multiple years to reshape a roster, and then when the Redskins go and totally take their team in a different direction during their bye week, everybody (including those preaching patience above all) immediately buy in hook, line, and sinker.

Multiple years or two weeks. All the same I guess.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's funny because I've been told countless times around these parts that it takes multiple years to reshape a roster, and then when the Redskins go and totally take their team in a different direction during their bye week, everybody (including those preaching patience above all) immediately buy in hook, line, and sinker.

Multiple years or two weeks. All the same I guess.

I guess that you can see it that way, but in my mind the question was about the plan and strategy that is being used. If you wait to see the results on the field, then, my expectation is that your answer is no.

If your boss says, we are going to do x, y, z so that we can produce 200% more widgets and you think "yeah right, we will see if 200% more widgets are made" he didn't get your buy in. If he says it, and you think "hot da** 200% more widgets means I can get that new car" and then run out and buy it tomorrow, you bought into his plan fully.

No one who said yes is saying that every year in the future is going to be perfection, only that they believe the plan will take us to the better place. Once the results are known, then you aren't buying into the plan, you are just rejoicing (or moping) about the outcome.

As for not enough poll options, well, isn't that what the following dialogue is for. ie I voted no, because I don't think we have seen a solid building of the defensive backfield. Or I voted yes, because Matty and Smoot did, and I want to be a mod some day.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I guess that you can see it that way, but in my mind the question was about the plan and strategy that is being used. If you wait to see the results on the field, then, my expectation is that your answer is no.

If your boss says, we are going to do x, y, z so that we can produce 200% more widgets and you think "yeah right, we will see if 200% more widgets are made" he didn't get your buy in. If he says it, and you think "hot da** 200% more widgets means I can get that new car" and then run out and buy it tomorrow, you bought into his plan fully.

No one who said yes is saying that every year in the future is going to be perfection, only that they believe the plan will take us to the better place. Once the results are known, then you aren't buying into the plan, you are just rejoicing (or moping) about the outcome.

As for not enough poll options, well, isn't that what the following dialogue is for. ie I voted no, because I don't think we have seen a solid building of the defensive backfield. Or I voted yes, because Matty and Smoot did, and I want to be a mod some day.

I think you make a good point re: complicating my own position, but I'm not necessarily waiting for next years results to buy in only next years process (offseason).

A year ago, I would have been a clear no. A lot has changed since then, mainly that I overreacted to the cost associated with the RG3 trade, as well as the fact that I thought the Shanahans would be a limiting factor on his development. So far, they've been the opposite, and that is to their credit.

There are still some really sloppy things about the process but if they continue to get the big things right, they are going to be successful. Fixing the defense (and special teams) becomes the next big thing, as well as developing the passing game on a year to year basis.

[JoeRedskin]

From the Should Shanahan Be Fired thread, 10/28/12 @ 6:09 (Sorry can’t reference quote b/c thread has been closed):

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Okay, I'll say it without pulling punches. You'd have to be some kind of moron to give Shanahan five full years.

Rather than rehash much of what others have already pointed out, specifically CRed and his analogy as to what constitutes “buying in, I am simply seeing if you still stand by this unequivocal condemnation of those believing that, even prior to the win streak, MS’s actions warranted a full five years.

Further, I would suggest that some of your statements in the recent discussion belie your previous unequivocal condemnation of myself (and others) who, prior to the recent winning streak, believed that a systemic turnaround had already begun entitling MS to his full five years.

Preliminarily, accepting that you:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

see a team not completely dissimilar to the 2005 and 2007 outfits that made aggressive offseason moves, got hot, and paid off an aggressive offseason with a playoff berth. … [Thus, you believe that's] not really a long-term "plan"[.]

You point to several events/transactions that have been evident to me (and, again, others) since MS's first year.

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think it's the results of an aggressive process: i.e. trading for RG3 and finding Morris in the 6th round, as well as developing a strong offensive line.

The current line - which I agree has been critical to the Streak - has been developed since 2010, as you point out, through free agency and the draft. The line as currently assembled shows a clear bias for a particular type of lineman and MS has – except for the RT position – developed and signed lineman who fit that description (Williams, Montgomery, Lichtensteiger, Chester) while discarding those who did not. (Rinehart, Dockery). Have we fully developed the line in year three? No. However, have the “high priced free agents” used to supplement the street free agents and the draft picks prevented us from addressing other areas of need? If you believe so, please cite me some specifics b/c I don't see it. In addition, we have now have a relatively youthful starting five that create the luxury of developing internal replacements (e.g.LeRibeus who received solid reviews for his play along with Mo Hurt who was an adequate replacement when called upon). This simply did not happen in one year and was seen by myself and others as a conscience and necessary step to long term winning.

Similarly, the development of depth, for me (and I believe others), has always been tied to the types of free agents acquired and the contracts given to them. Something you admit

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, the contracts thing is something that improved right away.

For me, the improvement in the "the contracts thing" allows for prolonged success b/c it provides flexibility in both the aquisition and retention of talent. Something not a strength of the Cerrato years (to say the least).

The development of depth and acquiring specific types of supporting talent has been essential to the reformation of the roster in a manner that creates a team in which a talent like RGIII can succeed. It didn’t happen over night, it began in 2010 and has been visible to any who have looked at the depth being developed and the manner in which the roster was constructed. The ability of both rookies (Crawford, LeRibeus) and long term subs (Jackson) to step up, along with the obvious development of talent – both starting and depth - over the last two years (Darrell Young (who BTW, in 2010, MS converted to a FB from a LB), Mo Hurt, A.Robinson, P. Riley, T. Williams, Royster, Kerrigan, Hankerson, Jenkins) to me is a validation of the “Shanaplan”.

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

It's funny because I've been told countless times around these parts that it takes multiple years to reshape a roster, and then when the Redskins go and totally take their team in a different direction during their bye week, everybody (including those preaching patience above all) immediately buy in hook, line, and sinker.

Multiple years or two weeks. All the same I guess.

Here, to me, is your supreme arrogance obvious. The “two week” turnaround – excuse me “different direction” - could not have happened but for the two years of ground work done by Shanahan/Allen in assembling a roster capable of ripping off seven wins in a row and, during which, several players obtained and/or retained by MS, not named RGIII or AlMo, contributed and, in fact, were crucial to the sustaining the streak. (Of course, none of this references the ability of MS/KS to modify their existing scheme to maximize the talents of RGIII).

You can choose to believe the Streak is simply a redux of 2005, 2007, I would suggest, based on the way the roster has been constructed, it is something more. I believed this before the Streak occurred and, regardless of the outcome of Sunday’s game, I will continue to believe that this team will reap the benefits of the Shanaplan into next year and beyond.

Finally, you assert

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This is the offseason that will determine the success or failure of the Shanaplan (of course, if not for last offseason, he wouldn't have made it to this point). Lots of talent on this roster is available for free agency, and that doesn't even include Orakpo, who is heading into the last year of his contract.

I agree that the handling of the contracts coming due will be of utmost importance in continuing the work of the past three off-seasons. Unlike you, apparently, I am confident that they will be handled appropriately. We may lose some players, but I don’t expect us to see the “Archuletta rather than Ryan Clark” type of missteps characteristic of the Cerrato era. ShanAllen have shown a consistent ability to identify and obtain talent in a manner that does not bust the budget. The fact that we could take a last minute $18M cap hit and still sign the talent we did this past off-season, in my opinion, provides more than reasonable support for that belief. Given their success at identifying and developing the current talent on the roster, I would suggest that they will bring the same budget managing process to the retention of talent.

Simply put, your original statement was incredibly arrogant, short sighted and self-serving. Further, your own subsequent statements demonstrate its falsity.

[Chico23231]

^well you know they are gonna have another hard time again with the cap penalty and will have their hands tied in Free agency with alot of decisions to make on the team in regards to who to extend vs who not to extend. Whats is encouraging is the fact of there is only ONE bloated contract at this point. Thats an amazing fact vs the 2005-2007 teams you mentioned. This team is much more structurely sound than those teams as well in terms of talent, but especially depth.

Its gonna be an interesting offseason when it comes down to players such as Logan Pauleson, Rob Jackson, Fred Davis, D Hall