QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?

[That Guy]

brunell's already said bringing in a new offense for a 36 year old QB makes no sense, and saunder's offense isn't suited for brunell. brunell has looked kinda disengaged, maybe he's just not happy with the whole situation (outside of the losing).

either way, we're not playing well enough on D to pull it out, even if the O gets better, so let's get rocky and campbell in there and see how they look.

[Stacks42]

It is definitley the QB, MB cant/won't throw the ball downfield. I think that is why the players are so frustrated, as well as Saunders. Its JGs call to keep brunell in there, when it seems that everyone besides him thinks its a good idea to change QBs and start building for the future. You could read it all over the WRs faces, they are disgusted, I saw quite a few time where WR's and cooley were wide open with thier hands in the air, but suck ass Brunell checks down for a 3 yard completion. We are the joke of the NFL right now.
The Skins are like a boxer (with a broken right hand) that continues to throw the left jab all fight long, never throwing the power shot. Yeah you may score a few points on the score card, but you end up bloodied and beaten and demoralized.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Stacks42

The Skins are like a boxer (with a broken right hand) that continues to throw the left jab all fight long, never throwing the power shot. Yeah you may score a few points on the score card, but you end up bloodied and beaten and demoralized.

good analogy Stacks

cept, this boxer is a southpaw and it's the left hand that's broken.

[Stacks42]

Originally Posted by illdefined

good analogy Stacks

cept, this boxer is a southpaw and it's the left hand that's broken.

YES you are correct sir! my bad, damn lefties get you ever time!

[TenandSix:Unacceptable]

ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG.
DEAD WRONG!
What is the recurring theme in the recurring nightmare of the last decade and a half? Our quarterbacks SUCK! Get a good QB. Period. If it´s not JC then find someone. FAST. Do not stop until you have a very good player there. It doesn´t matter if we use every pick for every draft for the next hundred years. Or trade every draft pick for one proven stud free agent. (But nobody trades franchise QB´s. You wanna know why? Because it´s the most important part of the team. How many picks would it take to get Peyton Manning? Carson Palmer? Tom Brady? Donovan McNabb? We could offer CP, Cooley, Moss, and Marcus Washington the Grim reaper and the next five drafts and they would say, "No thanks.") We could fix our D, be top 5 in D, and still not make the playoffs or lose early. Get a QB, take a deep sigh of relief, and build the team.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable

ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG.
DEAD WRONG!

Have you been paying any attention to the missed tackles? The blown coverages? The injuries?

[CrazyCanuck]

Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable

What is the recurring theme in the recurring nightmare of the last decade and a half? Our quarterbacks SUCK! Get a good QB. Period. If it´s not JC then find someone. FAST. Do not stop until you have a very good player there. It doesn´t matter if we use every pick for every draft for the next hundred years. Or trade every draft pick for one proven stud free agent. (But nobody trades franchise QB´s. You wanna know why? Because it´s the most important part of the team. How many picks would it take to get Peyton Manning? Carson Palmer? Tom Brady? Donovan McNabb? We could offer CP, Cooley, Moss, and Marcus Washington the Grim reaper and the next five drafts and they would say, "No thanks.") We could fix our D, be top 5 in D, and still not make the playoffs or lose early. Get a QB, take a deep sigh of relief, and build the team.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but isn't that what Gibbs has tried to do since he got here? He immediately brought in a veteran that could win now even though we already had Ramsey. Then he drafted a young QB to hopefully take over the reigns in a couple years and hold it for many more.

You can question whether Gibbs brought in the right QBs or not, but I don't think you can question his intentions.

[TenandSix:Unacceptable]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable
ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG.
DEAD WRONG!

Have you been paying any attention to the missed tackles? The blown coverages? The injuries?



Have you been paying attention to football teams with good QB´s?

Essentially because of Joe Gibbs and Trent Dilfer, some people actually try to win without a franchise QB. Let´s look back at the last 20 years or so, shall we? Who wins superbowls?

Ben Rothlisberger
Brady times three
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner
John Elway times two
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman times three
Steve Young
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler
Joe Montana times two
Doug Williams
Phil Simms

Now, my point is, that out of the last twenty SB winners, 15 were won with franchise QB´s. That´s 75%. It´s no coincidence that the teams with franchise QB´s are consistantly in it, year after year. The Redskins QB´s, Rypien and Williams, had solid if not spectacular careers, but had incredible SB performances. Dilfer is another QB on the list who had done very little else in his career. Hostetler and Johnson had solid careers but weren´t franchise QB´s. Warner is the lowest rated in my opinion out of the Franchise group. But he went again two years later and lost in an upset to a young guy named Brady. He bloomed late, and luckily for the Rams they cut him as soon as his skills had diminished. To me, what most of you are trying to say is that you´d rather take the Gibbsian approach to winning. Build the team around the QB first thinking that we can win it with a servicable QB who gets hot as the team around him peaks. Obviously, as Gibbs is our coach again, it makes sense to me and has the ring of foolishness to suggest otherwise. However, just imagine if we had a franchise QB? Would you trade that player for all the players and the members of the coaching staff of the #1 defense in the league? Do you trade Peyton Manning or Tom Brady for the Bears D? Absolutely not.

Let me repeat that: ABSOLUTELY NOT!

So, my point is that it all starts with a QB. Perhaps in other places the need is not quite as dire as it is here for us here in Skinsland. We haven´t had a franchise QB for decades and it is time to make that priority number one.

[Crat92]

Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable
ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG.
DEAD WRONG!

Have you been paying any attention to the missed tackles? The blown coverages? The injuries?



Have you been paying attention to football teams with good QB´s?

Essentially because of Joe Gibbs and Trent Dilfer, some people actually try to win without a franchise QB. Let´s look back at the last 20 years or so, shall we? Who wins superbowls?

Ben Rothlisberger
Brady times three
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner
John Elway times two
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman times three
Steve Young
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler
Joe Montana times two
Doug Williams
Phil Simms

Now, my point is, that out of the last twenty SB winners, 15 were won with franchise QB´s. That´s 75%. It´s no coincidence that the teams with franchise QB´s are consistantly in it, year after year. The Redskins QB´s, Rypien and Williams, had solid if not spectacular careers, but had incredible SB performances. Dilfer is another QB on the list who had done very little else in his career. Hostetler and Johnson had solid careers but weren´t franchise QB´s. Warner is the lowest rated in my opinion out of the Franchise group. But he went again two years later and lost in an upset to a young guy named Brady. He bloomed late, and luckily for the Rams they cut him as soon as his skills had diminished. To me, what most of you are trying to say is that you´d rather take the Gibbsian approach to winning. Build the team around the QB first thinking that we can win it with a servicable QB who gets hot as the team around him peaks. Obviously, as Gibbs is our coach again, it makes sense to me and has the ring of foolishness to suggest otherwise. However, just imagine if we had a franchise QB? Would you trade that player for all the players and the members of the coaching staff of the #1 defense in the league? Do you trade Peyton Manning or Tom Brady for the Bears D? Absolutely not.

Let me repeat that: ABSOLUTELY NOT!

So, my point is that it all starts with a QB. Perhaps in other places the need is not quite as dire as it is here for us here in Skinsland. We haven´t had a franchise QB for decades and it is time to make that priority number one.

Well said. I'd like to add, all of those QB's also had something else in common. They all Could and did throw the Deep ball for big plays. Our QB either can't make the throws down field, or won't make them. Regardless if he has no confidence or what ever the excuse is this week, he's not gettin' it done. Time for a change! HAIL from MCUSA!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable
ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG.
DEAD WRONG!

Have you been paying any attention to the missed tackles? The blown coverages? The injuries?



Have you been paying attention to football teams with good QB´s?

Essentially because of Joe Gibbs and Trent Dilfer, some people actually try to win without a franchise QB. Let´s look back at the last 20 years or so, shall we? Who wins superbowls?

Ben Rothlisberger
Brady times three
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner
John Elway times two
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman times three
Steve Young
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler
Joe Montana times two
Doug Williams
Phil Simms

Now, my point is, that out of the last twenty SB winners, 15 were won with franchise QB´s. That´s 75%. It´s no coincidence that the teams with franchise QB´s are consistantly in it, year after year. The Redskins QB´s, Rypien and Williams, had solid if not spectacular careers, but had incredible SB performances. Dilfer is another QB on the list who had done very little else in his career. Hostetler and Johnson had solid careers but weren´t franchise QB´s. Warner is the lowest rated in my opinion out of the Franchise group. But he went again two years later and lost in an upset to a young guy named Brady. He bloomed late, and luckily for the Rams they cut him as soon as his skills had diminished. To me, what most of you are trying to say is that you´d rather take the Gibbsian approach to winning. Build the team around the QB first thinking that we can win it with a servicable QB who gets hot as the team around him peaks. Obviously, as Gibbs is our coach again, it makes sense to me and has the ring of foolishness to suggest otherwise. However, just imagine if we had a franchise QB? Would you trade that player for all the players and the members of the coaching staff of the #1 defense in the league? Do you trade Peyton Manning or Tom Brady for the Bears D? Absolutely not.

Let me repeat that: ABSOLUTELY NOT!

So, my point is that it all starts with a QB. Perhaps in other places the need is not quite as dire as it is here for us here in Skinsland. We haven´t had a franchise QB for decades and it is time to make that priority number one.

Franchise QBs don't grow on trees.

You have a chance with Campbell, but if he doesn't end up being a great player, you will have to satisfied with above average QB play for a long time. Or just complain a lot, whatever floats your boat.

[Redskin]

Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable
ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG.
DEAD WRONG!

Have you been paying any attention to the missed tackles? The blown coverages? The injuries?



Have you been paying attention to football teams with good QB´s?

Essentially because of Joe Gibbs and Trent Dilfer, some people actually try to win without a franchise QB. Let´s look back at the last 20 years or so, shall we? Who wins superbowls?

Ben Rothlisberger
Brady times three
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner
John Elway times two
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman times three
Steve Young
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler
Joe Montana times two
Doug Williams
Phil Simms

Now, my point is, that out of the last twenty SB winners, 15 were won with franchise QB´s. That´s 75%. It´s no coincidence that the teams with franchise QB´s are consistantly in it, year after year. The Redskins QB´s, Rypien and Williams, had solid if not spectacular careers, but had incredible SB performances. Dilfer is another QB on the list who had done very little else in his career. Hostetler and Johnson had solid careers but weren´t franchise QB´s. Warner is the lowest rated in my opinion out of the Franchise group. But he went again two years later and lost in an upset to a young guy named Brady. He bloomed late, and luckily for the Rams they cut him as soon as his skills had diminished. To me, what most of you are trying to say is that you´d rather take the Gibbsian approach to winning. Build the team around the QB first thinking that we can win it with a servicable QB who gets hot as the team around him peaks. Obviously, as Gibbs is our coach again, it makes sense to me and has the ring of foolishness to suggest otherwise. However, just imagine if we had a franchise QB? Would you trade that player for all the players and the members of the coaching staff of the #1 defense in the league? Do you trade Peyton Manning or Tom Brady for the Bears D? Absolutely not.

Let me repeat that: ABSOLUTELY NOT!

So, my point is that it all starts with a QB. Perhaps in other places the need is not quite as dire as it is here for us here in Skinsland. We haven´t had a franchise QB for decades and it is time to make that priority number one.

im just going to throw htis out there but YES! defenses win superbowls want an example the ravens? and now im willing to place money the bears take it this year.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenandSix:Unacceptable
ANYONE WHO SAYS DEFENSE IS WRONG.
DEAD WRONG!

Have you been paying any attention to the missed tackles? The blown coverages? The injuries?



Have you been paying attention to football teams with good QB´s?

Essentially because of Joe Gibbs and Trent Dilfer, some people actually try to win without a franchise QB. Let´s look back at the last 20 years or so, shall we? Who wins superbowls?

Ben Rothlisberger
Brady times three
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner
John Elway times two
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman times three
Steve Young
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler
Joe Montana times two
Doug Williams
Phil Simms

Now, my point is, that out of the last twenty SB winners, 15 were won with franchise QB´s. That´s 75%. It´s no coincidence that the teams with franchise QB´s are consistantly in it, year after year. The Redskins QB´s, Rypien and Williams, had solid if not spectacular careers, but had incredible SB performances. Dilfer is another QB on the list who had done very little else in his career. Hostetler and Johnson had solid careers but weren´t franchise QB´s. Warner is the lowest rated in my opinion out of the Franchise group. But he went again two years later and lost in an upset to a young guy named Brady. He bloomed late, and luckily for the Rams they cut him as soon as his skills had diminished. To me, what most of you are trying to say is that you´d rather take the Gibbsian approach to winning. Build the team around the QB first thinking that we can win it with a servicable QB who gets hot as the team around him peaks. Obviously, as Gibbs is our coach again, it makes sense to me and has the ring of foolishness to suggest otherwise. However, just imagine if we had a franchise QB? Would you trade that player for all the players and the members of the coaching staff of the #1 defense in the league? Do you trade Peyton Manning or Tom Brady for the Bears D? Absolutely not.

Let me repeat that: ABSOLUTELY NOT!

So, my point is that it all starts with a QB. Perhaps in other places the need is not quite as dire as it is here for us here in Skinsland. We haven´t had a franchise QB for decades and it is time to make that priority number one.

Dude your wrong.
Look at the facts:

Two of the greatest Franchise QB's of all time Dan Marino and Peyton Manning have ZERo Superbowl Wins between them. What do they have in common? They both played for teams with shitty defenses!
Another one, John Elway was crushed in every superbowl he was in, until late in his career when the Broncos developed a good defense and ran the ball with Terrell Davis who rushed for 158 yds and named MVP of Sb 32.
Defense wins championships and you do not win a super bowl with out a good defense. There has rarely, if ever been a super bowl winner that did not have at least a top five defense. Even the Greatest Show on Turf the St. Louis Rams super bowl teams had a top 5 defense statistically.

Regarding Frachise Qb's:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I understood Franchise QB by definition means (1) he was a high draft pick then (2) developed in to a great QB. John Elway Donovan McNabb, Peyton Manning,Steve Young and Ben Roethlisberger are or were franchise QB's.
Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Tom Brady, Brad Johnson are not what you would consider Franchise QB's early in their careers. They might have become one after they won a SB. But Tom Brady was 6th round pick 199th over all. He was not considered a Franchise QB until after they won their second SB.

Bottom Line:
There have been more teams that have had strong Defenses and mediocre QB's win the SB than Great QB's with mediocre defenses. FACT.

[redsk1]

Defense is the biggest problem. I don't know the #'s but i would guess our # plays per game is dramatically down from last year at this time. The reason is our defense can't stop anyone.

Qb is a problem but not the biggest. Once we get a good d then we'll need a better qb to get us to the next level.

[celts32]

Defense...not even close. Brunell is not a come form behind Qb and neither would Campbell be one as a rookie. The redskins were a team built on controlling the game on the ground and playing with a lead. This defense is AWFUL and the main problem with the team. The give up a TD on the opening drive every week it seems. AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL!!!!!!

[MTK]

If we put in Campbell and open up the offense a bit maybe we'll lose 36-28 instead of 36-22.

But if we put in Campbell and the offense opens up, AND the D somehow comes around, only then will we see a different team.