Civil Discussion About Religion

[wolfeskins]

it would take a long time to write down all the things i have to say on this subject, therefore, i'll give just what i believe.

i believe god created everything, including man
i believe adam and eve sinned
i believe every person is born a sinner because they have the "blood of adam", tainted blood from their earthly father.
i believe jesus was born of a virgin, therefore not having the "blood of adam"
i believe jesus willingly laid his life down for you and me
i believe jesus is the only way to heaven
i believe by admitting your a sinner and asking jesus to come into your life and be your personal lord and savior, you go to heaven
i believe that jesus was god come in the flesh
i believe in god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit


i was 22 years old when i (got saved) asked god to be my personal lord and savior. my life truly has been better ever since. god has blessed me so much more than i deserve.

[Redskin]

Almost every religion has ties to another one and stories that re more then alike so in my opinion they are all the same with only a few differences.

IMO there is a god up there but there is no need to go to chrch becuase they are conforming somthing that cant be conformed. People should not be able to tell others what to believe. Yes i would say im christian but that is to say I only believe in one god and to get to heaven you just have to live your life the best you can.

[jamf]

Jsarno gets my vote for warpath governer!

I was born and raised Catholic. but like Robh, I've kinda seperated myself from religion.

I still have faith, Just not in humans.

btw, Wolfeskins post was well written and informative, I never knew why we were born with sin, Then right after reading it, I read his Signature and laughed out loud.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by jamf

btw, Wolfeskins post was well written and informative, I never knew why we were born with sin, Then right after reading it, I read his Signature and laughed out loud.

did you laugh because you thought it was funny or because you think i'm a hypocrit(sp).

just because you're a christian does'nt mean you have to stop joking around and having fun.

[jamf]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

did you laugh because you thought it was funny or because you think i'm a hypocrit(sp).

just because you're a christian does'nt mean you have to stop joking around and having fun.

It was freakin hilarious. It was no way intended as a dig on you.

[saden1]

See, we can really be civil about a touchy subject. I honestly and whole heatedly believe in evolution. I mean the easiest answer to a question is to not answer it. That's how I perceive religion. You can't ask the tough questions and if you do you get generic answers that answers. God just exists, he sees all and hears all, everything happens for a reason. it's god's will, etc.

The whole world was created in 6 days just trips me out. Not to mention how [insert word] Ezekiel Bible is. How the heck is it possible that all the big religions began in the Middle East and most prophets are somehow related to each other? How come there are no native South American prophet? Perhaps I am putting too much thought into this

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

The whole world was created in 6 days just trips me out.

I look at it this way, whoever made the earth and universe obviously has the power to speed up the process to 6 days, or 1 second, or let it evolve over a billion years. I also leave the thought open that the people that translated the bible could have misinterpreted the 6 days, when it was 6 million years or something...but most of all, I prescribe to the theory that it doesn't matter. When I am being judged in front of God I doubt he's going to ask me "Did you beleive the world was created in 6 days or billions of years?" And if I answer the wrong way, I go to hell. I am assuming, to Him, it doesn't matter. If it did, he would have been WAAAY more specific.

Not to mention how [insert word] Ezekiel Bible is. How the heck is it possible that all the big religions began in the Middle East and most prophets are somehow related to each other? How come there are no native South American prophet? Perhaps I am putting too much thought into this

I didn't want to say this cause it sounds so anti-God, but what if God sent all these prophets to bring everyone to Him (as in God himself)? Why is it that almost every religion has 1 common denominator..God himself. Whether they call Him Allah or God is irrelevant. I look at it this way, God is all loving and understanding, and understands we are all flawed and eaily swayed, so why are there soooo many religions? Why give us that many religions and lead us to believe that if we choose the wrong one, we go to hell? I don't think he would. I think we will be judged on our life, and our love of God and our pursuit to act the way he wants us to. We are all saved by grace and grace alone, it's not up to me who makes it, but Him. He may choose to save all of us, or none of us. I prefer to think of God as someone that loves us, and grace will cover a wide array...even though it says in the bible the road to hell is wide and many will travel, but the road to heaven is narrow and few will find.
I feel that those who give up searching for Truth, simply because that's the easiest route, anger God. People say that evolution is widely recognized, therefore can't be dismissed...well even MORE people believe that there is a God of some sort...just taking a stab in the dark, but easily 90%+ do. So why is it easier to ignore the 90%+ of the world in relation to God, but follow the smaller group that only believes in evolution. (that's rhetorical)
I just feel it in my bones that there is a God, and my mind agrees. If there isn't one when I die, I lived a good life and have nothing to be upset over. However if I were a non believer and died and there IS a God, I'd be sweating bullets. Not that I prescribe to that theory as the reasoning to prove a God, just that it's a pretty solid way to look at things. Almost along the lines of "better to be safe than sorry."
Sorry for the ramble.

[MTK]

I'm a non-believer but at the same time I'm not ready to dismiss anything. That's the one thing that really irks me about debates like this. Who are we to sit here and definitively say one side of the fence is wrong and one side is right. It's a very individualized thought process and everyone should respect other's opinions. For all we know we could ALL be wrong. Perhaps we're some sort of experimental ant farm for aliens. Hey, you never really know.

[Schneed10]

Blah blah blah. Religion is simply something manifested by the human mind to provide comfort and solace when dealing with the unknown. Religion helps give humans the feeling that there is rhyme or reason to the world we live in. Religion provides the sense that there is a purpose to life: to live a good life and get into heaven. It provides comfort regarding the unknowns which humans face, like what happens to me when I die? Do I live on, or is the show over? Religion comforts humans; the presence of a higher power must surely mean that I'm in good hands, even when I'm entering the unknown: death.

People believe it because deep down they don't want to face the alternative: that when you die you go nowhere, your life is simply over. And that your life was not part of some grand scheme; you simply lived and died.

Those alternatives are scary, but they're the truth. Religion is just a crutch humans use to go about their daily lives in false comfort.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

People believe it because deep down they don't want to face the alternative: that when you die you go nowhere, your life is simply over. And that your life was not part of some grand scheme; you simply lived and died.

Those alternatives are scary, but they're the truth. Religion is just a crutch humans use to go about their daily lives in false comfort.

But how do you know that? Again, I'm pretty much on your side with that, I think pretty much when you die, you just die just like you. But how do you know? Thats the best part about the whole thing, is you really dont know. How do you explain people "leaving their bodies and then coming back to life". Just some of the things that happen in this world just seem to weird to me to not belive there is some type of a god, and then at the same time it sounds rediculous to me. But I'm with Matty, I really dont belive in much, but I really cant disprove anything. I find myself praying to god somtimes when I want somthing, ya know? Unforunatley we'll all find out the truth one way or the other lol.

PS: Saden, you're right. When you posted this I was just waiting for the war, maybe if you just put Civil in front of anything touchy, we'll all behave lol.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

But how do you know that? Again, I'm pretty much on your side with that, I think pretty much when you die, you just die just like you. But how do you know? Thats the best part about the whole thing, is you really dont know. How do you explain people "leaving their bodies and then coming back to life". Just some of the things that happen in this world just seem to weird to me to not belive there is some type of a god, and then at the same time it sounds rediculous to me. But I'm with Matty, I really dont belive in much, but I really cant disprove anything. I find myself praying to god somtimes when I want somthing, ya know? Unforunatley we'll all find out the truth one way or the other lol.

PS: Saden, you're right. When you posted this I was just waiting for the war, maybe if you just put Civil in front of anything touchy, we'll all behave lol.

You're absolutely right, nobody knows for sure what happens when we die. A lot of scientists theorize that your brain stores a lifetime of memories, kind of like a computer. When you're alive, there's a system in place to suppress all of your memories from coming to the forefront of your attention, so that you can focus on learning and doing tasks. But when you die, that system begins to fail and all of your stored memories come to the forefront of your attention.

They theorize that when people have had near death experiences and have seen images of loved ones, they're actually hallucinating because of a combination of 1) the lack of oxygen to the brain (hence a change in chemical balance) and 2) memories surfacing in the brain.

You're right, these theories have not been proven, hence we call them theories. I find those explanations a lot more plausible then the existence of a heaven and a God. But you're right, I do not know for sure.

But an examination of human nature sure does point in one direction: humans are scared, fragile creatures. The fact that we are self-aware and conscious, combined with the fact that we will all die, combined with the fact that we feel so much grief when a loved one dies, creates a great deal of anxiety and defines the human condition. We search for an explanation of what life means and what death is like, but we find none. In the absence of explanation, we fall back on faith. Because without it, we're too scared to face what is most likely the truth:

That when a loved one dies, you will never see them again. That when you die, you will cease to exist. And that your life was just that, a life, nothing more.

When you read those words there, did you get a chill up your spine? Did you feel a little scared or even a little depressed? That's why religion was created: people just don't want to believe it. And they'd much rather go through life believing something else.

I can't knock it. Anything that makes you feel less scared is probably a good thing.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

You're absolutely right, nobody knows for sure what happens when we die. A lot of scientists theorize that your brain stores a lifetime of memories, kind of like a computer. When you're alive, there's a system in place to suppress all of your memories from coming to the forefront of your attention, so that you can focus on learning and doing tasks. But when you die, that system begins to fail and all of your stored memories come to the forefront of your attention.

They theorize that when people have had near death experiences and have seen images of loved ones, they're actually hallucinating because of a combination of 1) the lack of oxygen to the brain (hence a change in chemical balance) and 2) memories surfacing in the brain.

You're right, these theories have not been proven, hence we call them theories. I find those explanations a lot more plausible then the existence of a heaven and a God. But you're right, I do not know for sure.

But an examination of human nature sure does point in one direction: humans are scared, fragile creatures. The fact that we are self-aware and conscious, combined with the fact that we will all die, combined with the fact that we feel so much grief when a loved one dies, creates a great deal of anxiety and defines the human condition. We search for an explanation of what life means and what death is like, but we find none. In the absence of explanation, we fall back on faith. Because without it, we're too scared to face what is most likely the truth:

That when a loved one dies, you will never see them again. That when you die, you will cease to exist. And that your life was just that, a life, nothing more.

When you read those words there, did you get a chill up your spine? Did you feel a little scared or even a little depressed? That's why religion was created: people just don't want to believe it. And they'd much rather go through life believing something else.

I can't knock it. Anything that makes you feel less scared is probably a good thing.

Thats pretty much exactly what I think. I think alot of religions are so people feel better somtimes, and you know what good for them. I mean I tend to have the faith that there is a heaven, and when someone dies they have a spirt somewhere...but do I really belive it? Not really. But it makes me feel better about it, so it's what people do. But that post is pretty much 100% spot on what I belive. And you're right, you can't knock it because dying is a scary thing to think about, so whatever you need to do to face it is what you should do.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Those alternatives are scary, but they're the truth. Religion is just a crutch humans use to go about their daily lives in false comfort.

Maybe so, but what is the harm in that?
Do you tell your kids that life sucks? Or do you tell them they are special and they can acheive anything they set their mind to, and guard them from violent images on TV etc?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Maybe so, but what is the harm in that?
Do you tell your kids that life sucks? Or do you tell them they are special and they can acheive anything they set their mind to, and guard them from violent images on TV etc?

Well first off, we're not discussion what we tell our kids, we're discussing what adults believe. But no, there is no harm in having faith in something if it makes you feel better (provided you're not organizing against other faiths).

I'm not arguing whether religion makes you feel better. It certainly does. I'm just arguing what is most likely the truth: there is no God. People just believe in him to feel better about their mortality, and all else that they cannot explain.

I do the same thing as GManc. When my grandmom died I tried to think of her as living on in heaven. Or at least living on in my heart and in my memories. Did I believe it was the truth? Hell no. But I told myself that, and it got me through a rough time.

And if religion can do that for you, even if it's bunk, then it's a well-guided thing.

Like I said, I don't think Jesus was the son of God, or even that God exists. But nevertheless, the stories and lessons in the Bible are a great way to live your life. Whether you believe or not, that's not the point. It's a great example, fact or fiction.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well first off, we're not discussion what we tell our kids, we're discussing what adults believe. But no, there is no harm in having faith in something if it makes you feel better (provided you're not organizing against other faiths).

You made a comment, I responded with a valid arguement, so while we here are not discussing what we tell our kids, it was used as an argument to help you understand my point.

I'm not arguing whether religion makes you feel better. It certainly does. I'm just arguing what is most likely the truth: there is no God. People just believe in him to feel better about their mortality, and all else that they cannot explain.

Actually you are not arguing what is "most likely the truth". You are arguing what is "most likely your opinion". Because what is most likely the truth is that there is a higher being of some sort, and science proves that. Like I said before, science goes as far back as it can, then scientists say that something had to have started it all. Everything has a beginning, everything, the only thing (in theory) that doesn't, is a "devine" being. Also, ask a doctor how the human body was made, and he / she will say it's too complex to be by accident. Does this prove the existance of God? Not definitively, no. But it certainly would lean more towards the truth being that there is a God, not that there isn't.
If you want to feel that everything that happened to us and everything around you is just one giant coincidence, that's your choice. I will just never understand why someone would willingly choose a path that would never ever give them a chance of a positive effect, when the other path at the very least has a 50/50 shot of bringing them a positive effect. It's playing the odds...it's like you flipping a coin and choosing sofa instead of heads or tails. At least I take a shot at heads or tails. Could I be wrong? Yes. But I still have a shot...when you bet sofa, you won't / can't win.

I do the same thing as GManc. When my grandmom died I tried to think of her as living on in heaven. Or at least living on in my heart and in my memories. Did I believe it was the truth? Hell no. But I told myself that, and it got me through a rough time.

If you truly don't beleive in it, then why lie to yourself? Or does your subconscious beleive, it's just your conscious that refuses to let it due to something that happened to you as a youngster. (I realize that sounds rude, and I assure you that is not my intent)