A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

With regard to Rocky's lack of playing time last year. Either he's dumb as a box of hammers and could not figure out what he was supposed to do on the various calls or Gregg Williams kept him on the sidelines for some non-football reason. I don't know which was the case, but I do know this: Rocky will be entering the 2007 season as a rookie in terms of useful game experience.

I don't know that the reason we never saw McIntosh was because he didn't know the system. Carlos Rogers wasn't inserted particularly quickly as a rookie either and that was when Walt Harris looked like he couldn't get burnt any worse. I don't think Williams likes throwing young kids into the lineup right away. I really hope that was part of the reason we didn't see much of him.

[Rexi]

Can you guys even afford Thomas? Is that a serious option for you? I'm not farmiliar with the cap situation.

If Thomas goes anywhere else than SF I would be pissed. There is no reason he should go anywhere else, Nolan knows him and he would fit our system perfectly, upgrading the defense significantly. We have 37M to spend I expect to sign at least two top tier FA's with a couple other significant signings, as well as moving up to another 1-2 rounde pick in the draft. Thomas, Clements, Steinbach, Bennett would all be guys I would be pleased to land. I doubt we can land them all, but we better get at least two.

[diehardskin2982]

we always have had a way to get around the cap

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

By the way, this business of "knowing the system" is really overrated. London Fletcher "knows the system" in Buffalo but they are not falling all over themselves to keep him. Guess that shows how critical "knowing the system" must be.

Yet another brilliant point that seems to have been overlooked by many, including me. I've generally been in favor of the idea of bringing in Fletcher -- he's a veteran, he knows the system, he makes a lot of tackles, and seems to be an affordable upgrade. Yep, I've fallen in line with the "conventional wisdom" on him.

But it doesn't take a football wizard to ponder the question of a player's actual value when he's no longer wanted by his own team. Barring a personality conflict with coaching or the organization, have we fallen into the trap of thinking that we can solve all of our problems by sifting through the trash cans of other teams? Not saying that Fletcher is "garbage" in the literal sense, but ... the question has to be addressed.

When a franchise like the Redskins makes 'dumpster diving' a chief form of personnel acquisition, how good do you honestly expect your team to be when you've stocked your roster with players from teams that aren't any good, and aren't desired by anybody else?

Maybe Fletcher will be the exception to the rule.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

When a franchise like the Redskins makes 'dumpster diving' a chief form of personnel acquisition, how good do you honestly expect your team to be when you've stocked your roster with players from teams that aren't any good, and aren't desired by anybody else?

Maybe Fletcher will be the exception to the rule.

Aside from last offseason, who have we gone "dumpster diving" for since 2000? Have we picked up guys like Barrow from other teams? Sure, but every team does and we didn't exactly break the bank for him.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Aside from last offseason, who have we gone "dumpster diving" for since 2000? Have we picked up guys like Barrow from other teams? Sure, but every team does and we didn't exactly break the bank for him.

Now again, when I say 'dumpster diving' or 'sifting through other teams' trash' I don't necessarily mean they're "garbage" in the literal sense, (though some of them certainly were), I'm talking about taking players that were no longer wanted, or there was no real push to retain them by their original teams. But just off the top of my head, here goes:

Renaldo Wynn
Bruce Smith
Mark Carrier
Jeff George
Jacquez Green
Reidel Anthony
Trung Canidate
Darrell Russell
Daryl Gardener
Jessie Armstead
Jeremiah Trotter
Danny Wuerffel
Shane Mathews
Brandon Noble
Joe Salave'a - wasn't even in another team's garbage can, was out of football
Philip Daniels


Those are just the guys I can think of -- I know there's more. The defensive line seems to be the recipient of most of the garbage, as evidenced by this team's neglect of that position in every single draft since 1997. Some, like Salave'a and Daniels have worked out OK, but it still represents this organization's tendency to treat the defensive line as an afterthought.

[SmootSmack]

So long as we're counting on PFT for our Fletcher news:

POSTED 7:46 p.m. EST; UPDATED 7:56 p.m. EST, February 26, 2007

FLETCHER DEAL NOT DONE?

Although there are rampant rumors that the Washington Redskins have reached a deal with Bills middle linebacker London Fletcher, a source close to Fletcher says that a final decision has not been made.

The Redskins, Patriots, Lions, and Bills are interested in Fletcher, and the source says that the Bills currently are the favorites to land London, with the Redskins at No.2 on the list.

Ideally, however, the Bills should have the exclusive ability to negotiate with Fletcher until Friday. But that's simply not how it works in the NFL anymore; virtually every team violates the prohibition on tampering when the time comes to talk to pending free agents. Indeed, we're not aware of a single team that doesn't get an early start on chatting with players who technically are the property of others.

[724Skinsfan]

Since when did Buffalo establish themselves as a team sole bent on keeping key players regardless of cost? Occassionally they'll give someone a nice payday (Takeo Spikes) but rare are the words "huge", "contract", "with" and "Buffalo" reported in the same sentence. If Buffalo doesn't want Fletcher perhaps they are continuing along their trend of fiscal restraint and see Fletcher for, accurately, what he is: an aging veteran with some gas left in the tank but not enough to keep at a price above what they are willing to pay.

Fletcher and Thomas aren't too dissimiliar in ability. Thomas gets to the QB and Fletcher makes more tackles. Personally I think we need a guy like Fletcher who will stick his helmet in someones chest on every play. I'm not willing to pay "Bruce Smith money" though for either of the two 30+ year olds.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Now again, when I say 'dumpster diving' or 'sifting through other teams' trash' I don't necessarily mean they're "garbage" in the literal sense, (though some of them certainly were), I'm talking about taking players that were no longer wanted, or there was no real push to retain them by their original teams. But just off the top of my head, here goes:

Renaldo Wynn
Bruce Smith
Mark Carrier
Jeff George
Jacquez Green
Reidel Anthony
Trung Canidate
Darrell Russell
Daryl Gardener
Jessie Armstead
Jeremiah Trotter
Danny Wuerffel
Shane Mathews
Brandon Noble
Joe Salave'a - wasn't even in another team's garbage can, was out of football
Philip Daniels

Almost all of the above players were signed for practically nothing or were from 2000. Moreover, what team doesn't "dumpster dive?" In fact, the Patriots do an awful lot of "dumspter diving" and they've done quite well for themselves.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Almost all of the above players were signed for practically nothing or were from 2000. Moreover, what team doesn't "dumpster dive?" In fact, the Patriots do an awful lot of "dumspter diving" and they've done quite well for themselves.

The point was not to illustrate how much cap space was taken or how we really got burned with back loaded contracts and dead money -- some of those signings were relatively insignificant cap wise.

The point, as evidenced by our overall record since Dan Snyder took over, is to make note of how poor those decisions were, ... not that it needed to be pointed out, it's been beaten to death here, but hey -- that's what this site is for. All of this stemmed from the discussion of London Fletcher, whose signing I support, but with the admission that it could be yet another washed up has been that the Redskins are so famous for attracting.

By the same token, I would also say that it's equally as redundant to say that the New England Patriots do a far better job at evaluating the free agent market than the Washinton Redskins do. That New England is reportedly interested in Fletcher may speak well for the intentions of our front office.

[RMSkins]

I would definitely take Thomas over Fletcher, but Fletcher is not going to be looking for the money Thomas will, and hopefully in the end Fletcher will end up being a good pickup for us.

[amorentz]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

So long as we're counting on PFT for our Fletcher news:

POSTED 7:46 p.m. EST; UPDATED 7:56 p.m. EST, February 26, 2007

FLETCHER DEAL NOT DONE?

Although there are rampant rumors that the Washington Redskins have reached a deal with Bills middle linebacker London Fletcher, a source close to Fletcher says that a final decision has not been made.

The Redskins, Patriots, Lions, and Bills are interested in Fletcher, and the source says that the Bills currently are the favorites to land London, with the Redskins at No.2 on the list.

Ideally, however, the Bills should have the exclusive ability to negotiate with Fletcher until Friday. But that's simply not how it works in the NFL anymore; virtually every team violates the prohibition on tampering when the time comes to talk to pending free agents. Indeed, we're not aware of a single team that doesn't get an early start on chatting with players who technically are the property of others.

This pretty well puts an end to the argument that we should be concerned because "his own team doesnt want him." Apparently they do, they just might not be willing to pay him what he wants...

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Rexi

Can you guys even afford Thomas? Is that a serious option for you? I'm not farmiliar with the cap situation.

If Thomas goes anywhere else than SF I would be pissed. There is no reason he should go anywhere else, Nolan knows him and he would fit our system perfectly, upgrading the defense significantly. We have 37M to spend I expect to sign at least two top tier FA's with a couple other significant signings, as well as moving up to another 1-2 rounde pick in the draft. Thomas, Clements, Steinbach, Bennett would all be guys I would be pleased to land. I doubt we can land them all, but we better get at least two.

Thank u. Thomas IS NOT coming here.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Now again, when I say 'dumpster diving' or 'sifting through other teams' trash' I don't necessarily mean they're "garbage" in the literal sense, (though some of them certainly were), I'm talking about taking players that were no longer wanted, or there was no real push to retain them by their original teams. But just off the top of my head, here goes:

Renaldo Wynn
Bruce Smith
Mark Carrier
Jeff George
Jacquez Green
Reidel Anthony
Trung Canidate
Darrell Russell
Daryl Gardener
Jessie Armstead
Jeremiah Trotter
Danny Wuerffel
Shane Mathews
Brandon Noble
Joe Salave'a - wasn't even in another team's garbage can, was out of football
Philip Daniels


Those are just the guys I can think of -- I know there's more. The defensive line seems to be the recipient of most of the garbage, as evidenced by this team's neglect of that position in every single draft since 1997. Some, like Salave'a and Daniels have worked out OK, but it still represents this organization's tendency to treat the defensive line as an afterthought.

so dumpster diving is signing any free agent that doesn't stay with his old team... which means every free agent there ever was lol.

a bunch of thoses guys were super cheap, and gardener and noble both gave a good year before moving on.

[MTK]

Armstead had a couple of solid seasons for us, not sure why people want to keep lumping him in with the likes of Wuerffel, etc.