Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Rajmahal33

- JC does look like he's going to do well but we did give up a good deal to get him
- CP was a great fit for our offense but we are wasting his talent by not surrounding him with a passing game (hopefully next year will be better) PLUS we did give up a pro-bowler and the best corner in the NFL in Champ
- Betts is great if we trade him but I don't think he will ever be able to carry the entire load under our offense...don't forget the fumbling issues
- Cartwright was probably the only under the radar guy that was picked up
- Cooley is great but as someone pointed out we gave up a LOT for him and they might let him leave to FA next year as well
- Santana Moss...let's not forget that our FO screwed up for a stretch there when we got Coles and he was a bust (this was the period when we were known as the jetskins and were a laughingstock)
- ARE is a great personality and player but has yet to prove that he was worth the money.

Almost all of your complaints address how much we paid players or how much we traded to get them. NONE of those arguments weigh in favor of firing Vinny.

I think if people wrote down a list of Vinny's job duties, and wrote down another list of what their gripes with the team are, they would find that the two lists have relatively little in common.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I know a lot of people blame Vinny Cerrato for all personnel problems, but maybe he is not the antichrist. Jason La Canfora's latest blog states that while Vinny scouts talent, he does not weigh in on how much to pay such talent or how much should be traded for players under contract with other teams.

IMHO, much of the ire directed at Vinny is misplaced. By and large, I would say that Vinny has scouted some talented guys. Our offense is absolutely loaded with playmakers, is only missing a good QB, and Vinny seems to have found one in Jason Campbell. The defense has holes, but it also managed to be a top-flight unit for a few years.

It seems like most of the frustration with our personnel decisions has not been with who we target (save perhaps Archie, Lloyd, or Barrow), but with how much we give up to get them (in terms of salary and draft picks). If so, the "blame" doesn't lay at Vinny's feet.

Let the rebuttals begin.

The TMC has always defended him (perhaps too much so) in the past. Vinny, YOU OWE ME DINNER.

[dmek25]

sheriff, you are cordially invited to join me over at my table at the 5000 thread club. sorry, members only

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Thanks guys. I didn't even notice that I hit 5,000 posts.

[GTripp0012]

I guess that makes me head of the 5,000 post kiddie table.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Defensewins,

(1) What decisions that Vinny made do you disagree with so strongly?
(2) What personnel on our roster who received SB of at least $5M do you think we should not have picked up?
(3) What makes you so certain that Vinny didn't get Gibbs excited about Campbell? Are you just speculating?

I certainly understand if you are pissed about the Redskins recent history, but I have no idea why the blame for our poor record lays at Vinny's feet.

As for San Fran, I believe they had a damn good record during Vinny's tenure.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Defensewins,

(1) What decisions that Vinny made do you disagree with so strongly?
(2) What personnel on our roster who received SB of at least $5M do you think we should not have picked up?
(3) What makes you so certain that Vinny didn't get Gibbs excited about Campbell? Are you just speculating?

I certainly understand if you are pissed about the Redskins recent history, but I have no idea why the blame for our poor record lays at Vinny's feet.

As for San Fran, I believe they had a damn good record during Vinny's tenure.

Defensewins can certainly answer for himself, but all you have to do is look at the state of the Redskins since Cerrato has been here. Regardless of the inner-workings of the front office structure, Cerrato has had his hand in the decisions that make the Redskins one of the perennial league-leaders in dead cap money, often with the highest payrolls, but with a 41-55 overall record and only one playoff season in six years.

Whatever his role was with the 49ers, he came to them when their franchise was already established, and we can all see the state he left them in.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Defensewins,

(1) What decisions that Vinny made do you disagree with so strongly?
(2) What personnel on our roster who received SB of at least $5M do you think we should not have picked up?
(3) What makes you so certain that Vinny didn't get Gibbs excited about Campbell? Are you just speculating?

I certainly understand if you are pissed about the Redskins recent history, but I have no idea why the blame for our poor record lays at Vinny's feet.

As for San Fran, I believe they had a damn good record during Vinny's tenure.

the Redskins are now 39-51 in seasons in which Vinny Cerrato has had an influence in the front office (excluding 1999, when the roster was set before Snyder took over, and 2001, the Martyball year when Vinny was banished to ESPNews.

Below is from a Washington Time Article by David Elfin that gives a little background of Vinny C's during his SF days, just so you do not think I am making this stuff up.


"San Francisco's drafts became noticeably less productive after Cerrato was promoted to director of player personnel in 1995. The defending Super Bowl champions traded their first-round picks in 1995 and 1996 to move up to select receiver J.J. Stokes, who took three seasons to prove his worth. And while receiver Terrell Owens, a third-rounder in 1996, has become a star, that year's second-rounder, Israel Ifeanyi, was a bust, as is quarterback Jim Druckenmiller, the first-rounder from 1997.....
Other than Owens, 1997 third-rounder Greg Clark and 1998 top choice R.W. McQuarters are the 49ers' only other sure starters from Cerrato's final four drafts. In contrast, the Redskins' drafts from 1995 to 1998 under the much-criticized Charley Casserly yielded 10 projected starters for 1999. And yet, Snyder is replacing Casserly -- who resigned yesterday effective Sept. 3 -- with Cerrato.....
The Redskins had a respected general manager, Charley Casserly, whose astute moves set the 'Skins up to get the second and third picks in the last draft. But Snyder didn't like Casserly, so he fired him and hired Vinny Cerrato, who had undermined the San Francisco 49ers as their player personnel director. The salary cap gets the blame for most of the 49ers' problems, but an equal problem was their poor drafting during Cerrato's time, highlighted (lowlighted?) by his push for QB Jim Druckenmiller in the first round of the 1997 draft. The slow-moving and slow-thinking Druckenmiller was woefully unsuited for the 49ers' offensive system and was dumped by the team before the start of the '99 season....
The quality of San Francisco's free agent signees under Cerrato also slipped ...with cornerback Antonio Langham and defensive end Gabe Wilkins failing to match the productivity of previous arrivals.... "

Does this sound familiar? Bad drafts. Bad FA signings? Bad W-L record.
Same shit..different team!
You still want to keep this guy? Why?

[skinsfan_nn]

Vinny is what's known as a "useful idiot". He catches the blame, but it only deflects from the bigger problem: this team has a horrible organizational philosophy under Danny Boy, and no "real" GM would have enough clout to stand up and go toe to toe with our fantasy football owner and too many overpaid, big-ego coaches.

It would be nice to think we could achieve what we did when JKC had the team with Joe and Bobby B., because the RESULTS ARE WHAT WE ARE CHASIN! Who cares about all the kiddie squables in that era?

Vinny is incompetent, but there's no point in replacing him. Danny Boy would only hire another yes-man. Vinny is no more than a puppet.

[skinsguy]

There are plenty of very good picks we have gotten with the current administration. SGG has already named some very good examples. This FO is, overall, doing a much better job. I know a lot of you guys want perfection, but if you want an ever year winner, you're going to have to be patient.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

There are plenty of very good picks we have gotten with the current administration. SGG has already named some very good examples. This FO is, overall, doing a much better job. I know a lot of you guys want perfection, but if you want an ever year winner, you're going to have to be patient.

thnk about it. of the players named before drafted by this FO since 2000. LaVar, Champ, Samuels, Jansen could not be placed on this administration. Casserly set us up with LaVar and Samuels, Jansen was all ready here. of the picks this FO has made, how many are starters, or play at all. Campbell, Rock, Taylor, Cooley,Smoot, I am probably forgetting a number of players, but my point is out of 7 years, 49 picks I dont think we have 10 to 15 players that have panned out, or stayed with the organization. Our team is made up of basically FA from other teams. and the ones we draft that are decent players, they are cast off for some reason. Whether Vinny is on the hook for most if not all of these issues is beside the point. Someone is letting him, Joe, GW, Mr. Saunders make these calls. Danny at some point has to wise up and put someone in charge. Any in charge totally. I give Danny credit for willing to pay the money and spend every dime to put players on the field, he is awesome in that regard. but at some point he has to step back and say this plan has not worked out. 7 to 8 years of this structure hasn't produced what we want, what the fans want and deserve for their loyalty to this team. the fact that we have the highest payroll year end year out, the highest dead cap figure every year, and one of the worst records in the NFL over the last 10 years should say something about the way they do things.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

thnk about it. of the players named before drafted by this FO since 2000. LaVar, Champ, Samuels, Jansen could not be placed on this administration. Casserly set us up with LaVar and Samuels, Jansen was all ready here. of the picks this FO has made, how many are starters, or play at all. Campbell, Rock, Taylor, Cooley,Smoot, I am probably forgetting a number of players, but my point is out of 7 years, 49 picks I dont think we have 10 to 15 players that have panned out, or stayed with the organization. Our team is made up of basically FA from other teams. and the ones we draft that are decent players, they are cast off for some reason. Whether Vinny is on the hook for most if not all of these issues is beside the point. Someone is letting him, Joe, GW, Mr. Saunders make these calls. Danny at some point has to wise up and put someone in charge. Any in charge totally. I give Danny credit for willing to pay the money and spend every dime to put players on the field, he is awesome in that regard. but at some point he has to step back and say this plan has not worked out. 7 to 8 years of this structure hasn't produced what we want, what the fans want and deserve for their loyalty to this team. the fact that we have the highest payroll year end year out, the highest dead cap figure every year, and one of the worst records in the NFL over the last 10 years should say something about the way they do things.

This is exactly the point, we need a good, strong GM. Snyder needs to remove himself for the player aquisition process and let a professional handle it. This is not a fantasy football league, which was the way Snyder first handled the team.
Cerrato just needs to go. We need a change REGADLESS of who is to blame for what. Our drafts have sucked. Look at a team like the Chargers or Patriots, built mostly from strong drafts. We do not have many of our draft picks left on the team because they sucked. That is the fault of the front office. Time for changes.
Nobody has answered this: why do you want to keep Vinny and our front office the way it is currently? The proof is on the field and on our payroll numbers. Since 1999 we had one of the highest payrolls but our team has been in the bottom half in regards to W-L records and ability. Our fron t office has a failing grade. Sorry, but it is true.

[MTK]

The past two seasons it's tough to argue with Cooley's production, and based on his production I don't see how you can't put him in the tier of TEs in this league.

[hooskins]

I think most people like to blame Vinny instead of Gibbs because that is sac religious. I think Gibbs needs quite a bit of blame that people dont want to give.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by hooskins

I think most people like to blame Vinny instead of Gibbs because that is sac religious. I think Gibbs needs quite a bit of blame that people dont want to give.

For whatever reason, Ceratto is much more protected it seems, and perhaps in a bit of denial. On more than one occasion, both Snyder and Gibbs have said "Hey I messed up and I admit it" But has anyone ever heard anything like that from VC?