Historical Economic Grace Period?

saden1 · 02-09-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well if it fails then it is failing to the tune of around 850 billion so it can do bad. I'm not saying do nothing I just don't think you sit down and decide to spend that kind of money with a bill they are rushing through. Obama even said tonight this is just the first step so how much money is this going to cost and what are the other steps.

This is real bad and most estimates put the final bill at 2 trillion to get out of this mess. The problem isn't what's the rush but how to best fix the economy. I mean honestly, since when did the GOP give a shit about what the rush is? Certainly not when Bush was the president -- I hope you're with me at least on this point. I don't mind an intellectually and factually based objections but objection in favor of 100% tax cut is completely irresponsible. I find the whole "let them go out of business" mentality and the games being played disturbing. It is unbecoming.

If we do nothing we will bleed to death as indicated by this graph. If we lose more jobs it means we have less people paying taxes, more people seeking unemployment and free food, less people buy stuff, companies have less revenue....rinse and repeat.

firstdown · 02-10-2009, 10:48 AM

First off the GOP plan was not just tax cuts as explained here on CNN. Second if you look at the first phase of spending in this bill it more about big goverment then creating jobs. Just a small % goes to roads and building stuff. I would go into more detail but I'm pretty busy at work right now. Hey, maybe his plan is already working.

Her is some of the spending and education will not stimulate the ecomomy and thing like that should have their own bill and not part of a stimulas bill.

Much of the $550 billion in spending is divided among these areas: $142 billion for education, $111 billion for health care, $90 billion for infrastructure, $72 billion for aid and benefits, $54 billion for energy, $16 billion for science and technology and $13 billion for housing.
GOP senators draft stimulus alternative - CNN.com

saden1 · 02-10-2009, 11:20 AM

I appreciate Sen. Martinez's effort to craft a "better" bill, it is certainly better than the original amendment introduced by Jim DeMint that got the support of 36 other GOP Senators. That bill was 100% tax cut. The link your provided states just as much:

Quote:

The draft Martinez put together is a broader approach than what some GOP leaders have suggested.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and other Republicans appear to want to limit the stimulus to tax cuts and addressing the housing crisis.

Building and updating schools is wasteful? Having teachers with jobs is wasteful? Buying school supplies? Having students have enough money to go to school? Paying tech companies to modernize the health care system is wasteful? Helping states stay solvent and viable is wasteful? Most states are running out of money for unemployment in the months to come!

I think I've beat this horse dead.

firstdown · 02-10-2009, 04:21 PM

Doesn't look like wall street liked his speech last night either.

CRedskinsRule · 02-10-2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

Doesn't look like wall street liked his speech last night either.

from http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/09/us...wanted=11&_r=1

Quote:

PRES. OBAMA: Again, Helene, I -- I -- and I'm trying to avoid preempting my secretary of the Treasury; I want all of you to show up at his press conference as well. (Laughter.) He's going to be terrific.

doesn't seem like he was that terrific

Stocks tumble after gov't unveils financial plan - Yahoo! News

steveo395 · 02-10-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

I appreciate Sen. Martinez's effort to craft a "better" bill, it is certainly better than the original amendment introduced by Jim DeMint that got the support of 36 other GOP Senators. That bill was 100% tax cut. The link your provided states just as much:

Building and updating schools is wasteful? Having teachers with jobs is wasteful? Buying school supplies? Having students have enough money to go to school? Paying tech companies to modernize the health care system is wasteful? Helping states stay solvent and viable is wasteful? Most states are running out of money for unemployment in the months to come!

I think I've beat this horse dead.

It doesn't matter if you think its wasteful or not, it isn't stimulus. Massive government spending does not help the economy. It didn't work during the depression and it hasn't worked since (like when Japan tried it in the '90s). The government can't just keep putting trillions into the economy. Its going to cause massive inflation in the future.

This bill is not stimulus at all, it is just a bunch of new government programs and shit that the democrats have been wanting to pass for years.

There are going to be more "stimulus" bills and bailouts too. Obama said the FDR didn't spend enough money during the depression to help the economy. All of this is only going to cause more problems.

I have so much more I want to say but I don't have time now.

saden1 · 02-11-2009, 12:27 AM

I sense great fear in you. Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Also, there's an old saying Tennessee, I know it's in Texas, that goes something like "never argue with a fool, on lookers from a distance may not be able to tell the difference."

Resistance is futile. Comrade, you will be assimilated!

p.s. I hope all of this makes sense. If not search your feelings.

Miller101 · 02-11-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

from http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/09/us...wanted=11&_r=1

doesn't seem like he was that terrific

Stocks tumble after gov't unveils financial plan - Yahoo! News

Your trying to tell me that just because of a speech it made the stocks tumble? The stocks have been tumbling! For a whole freakin year now! Crud! Maybe Obama should just go out there and say.....................................NOTHING! Then we can all watch the stocks tumble for another day! And then blame Clinton for it!

CRedskinsRule · 02-11-2009, 09:31 AM

Read the article, the stock market does in fact respond to government officials words, and it had risen on expectations of hearing a solid plan, but did not get it.
I am really all for the government doing nothing, that alone would be a savings of 800MILLION dollars. I think the graphs that Saden used earlier point out a telling fact, the economy will recover. (I know its hard to think that anything can happen without the government sticking its nose into it, and I know that the concept of no government stimulus plan will never take hold - I am just stating my opinion)

02-10-2009, 10:48 AM	#32
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 61 Posts: 15,817	Re: Historical Economic Grace Period? First off the GOP plan was not just tax cuts as explained here on CNN. Second if you look at the first phase of spending in this bill it more about big goverment then creating jobs. Just a small % goes to roads and building stuff. I would go into more detail but I'm pretty busy at work right now. Hey, maybe his plan is already working. Her is some of the spending and education will not stimulate the ecomomy and thing like that should have their own bill and not part of a stimulas bill. Much of the $550 billion in spending is divided among these areas: $142 billion for education, $111 billion for health care, $90 billion for infrastructure, $72 billion for aid and benefits, $54 billion for energy, $16 billion for science and technology and $13 billion for housing. GOP senators draft stimulus alternative - CNN.com

02-10-2009, 04:21 PM	#34
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 61 Posts: 15,817	Re: Historical Economic Grace Period? Doesn't look like wall street liked his speech last night either.

02-11-2009, 12:27 AM	#37
saden1 MVP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 46 Posts: 10,069	Re: Historical Economic Grace Period? I sense great fear in you. Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Also, there's an old saying Tennessee, I know it's in Texas, that goes something like "never argue with a fool, on lookers from a distance may not be able to tell the difference." Resistance is futile. Comrade, you will be assimilated! p.s. I hope all of this makes sense. If not search your feelings. __________________ "The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder." -Jenkins

02-11-2009, 09:31 AM	#39
CRedskinsRule Living Legend Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 58 Posts: 21,701	Re: Historical Economic Grace Period? Read the article, the stock market does in fact respond to government officials words, and it had risen on expectations of hearing a solid plan, but did not get it. I am really all for the government doing nothing, that alone would be a savings of 800MILLION dollars. I think the graphs that Saden used earlier point out a telling fact, the economy will recover. (I know its hard to think that anything can happen without the government sticking its nose into it, and I know that the concept of no government stimulus plan will never take hold - I am just stating my opinion)

Historical Economic Grace Period?

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