What if...?

4TH RING · 10-23-2004, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

We all know that before one ball is thrown in practice the players have to review a complex playbook. A veteran would certainly understand a little more about the offensive schemes than a younger QB, so of course Rothlisberger would be on the bench. Brunell is suppose to be here until Ramsey is ready to take over the helm, right? Wrong. Brunell has a seven year contract, while Ramsey has a three year conract. It's obvious that Brunell will not be here for another three years. I would not be surprised that Ramsey could be traded for a draft pick. Gibbs is more comfortable with older veteran QB's and that's not going to change. So, if Ramsey doesn't play this year he will not want to be a Redskin next year. It was a sticky situation when Brunell arrived and Gibbs handled it the way he knew best. It is unfortunate that Ramsey's only appearance was as distasterous as last years season. But time will tell.

If I can remember back to last year Ramsey had some very good games. Also I don't think he lost the starting job because of poor performance, actually he was playing with a bad foot most of the season and eventually had to be put on the IR list. I don't know how that could be percieved as disasterious. In what sense, that he was'nt able to perform in a system that was getting him consantly hit because of poor blocking schemes. I put that one on Spurrier. Also i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the players that Ben has surrounding him on offense are better than what we had last season. As you pointed out Brunnell has a big contract that would be hard to justify if he were riding the pine. Gibbs knew all along who was going to be starting. Ramsey never had a chance, he's "too young". So I don't agree you can call him a bust and like you said time will tell.

MTK · 10-23-2004, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

So given the comparison of Harrington, Carr, Pennington and Brady to Ramsey, why isn't Ramsey getting the time if his passing percentage is so great?

I don't like comparing QB's, they all have different circumstances to consider. It's not as easy to say, well one guy is doing well, so why can't another?

Pennington sat for a few years before he played. Carr and Harrington have both had the committment of their organizations as the franchise guy right from the start.

Ramsey held out his rookie year, was thrust into the lineup prematurely and was in a flawed system. He only has 16 career starts, it's way too early to draw any hardline conclusions about him in my opinion.

The one thing about the QB's you mentioned all have in common is they've had the benefit of learning and developing in one system. They've all had time to learn their systems, Ramsey is starting out fresh in his 2nd system, a system that is radically different than the one he was in the last 2 years.

I believe Ramsey is still a large part of Gibbs' plan for this team, or else he would have looked to deal him away this offseason when he had the chance.

joecrisp · 10-23-2004, 07:56 PM

Matty, you took the words right out of my mouth.

offiss · 10-24-2004, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Two of the best QB's in the league are going head to head this weekend in Foxboro. Both started their careers around the same time as Ramsey under similar circumstances. New coach, new system. You asked if there is another Ramsey that I have been watching this year. The answer is no. Tom Brady, Chad Pennington, David Carr and Joey Harrrington have surpassed Ramsey on many levels because they instantaneously gained the confidence of their coaches through leadership and execution.

Ramsey's first year as a starter was rocky and proved to me that he could take a hit but obviously could not anticipate the blitz. In response to the Eagles game, Ramsey brought the team back in the final minutes of the game only to overthrow Coles for the two point conversion which would have tied the game. Ramsey threw an INT against the Giants on that exact passing route to Coles this year. With regard to the Giants game last year, Ramsey was unsuccessful at moving the ball in the first half and made a valiant effort to come back, but we lost that one too. Your record says who you are. Not what you have the potential to become. Ramsey hasn't played long enough to even qualify a lengthy discussion on his behalf.

Quote:

Coach Gibbs will not call Ramsey out in the public but Brunell would not be in D.C if Gibbs were confident that Ramsey fit into his system.

I believe that Gibbs is buying time with Brunell until another veteran QB is available and Ramsey will be traded within the next two years. How many QB's has this happened to in the past 12 seasons? The list is too long to mention.

What on earth have Harrington, and Carr done? Other than start for to awful team's?

Quote:

Coach Gibbs will not call Ramsey out in the public but Brunell would not be in D.C if Gibbs were confident that Ramsey fit into his system.

So in other word's Brunell does? And where is your basis for that? Certainly not his play on the field up till now, infact we would in all likelihood be 4-2 if Brunell wasen't completly inept, and I don't want to hear about how he has lost it, Brunell never had it to play in a system like Gibb's, [why do you think Coughlin fought with managment to get rid of him in Jax?] where the QB stay's in the pocket and uses his arm to win games, not his leg's, or his ability to scramble and adlib, Brunell was never a pocket passer, he was alway's a poor, poor man's Favre, I think most would say Gibb's evaluation of Brunell right now, was a little off, the coach is not infallible, he has been out of football a while his eye for talent may be a little rusty at this point.

There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that it's only a matter of time before Ramsey step's in and shut's all his detractor's up.

diehardskin2982 · 10-24-2004, 06:12 PM

personnaly i think ben wouldn't of worked here he wouldn't even be playing. I like our pick but if there would have been anybody that i would have picked over Taylor is Roy Williams of Detroit he is a man child and he would have scored td's unlike our recievers now

I'd give ramsey next season... he'll be a beast, not only making the throws but calling plays from the line of scrimmage like manning. he'll know the system. if not brad smith of missouri is my choice the next cullpepper, but i'd rather use the pick on someone like mike williams and trade gardner for picks or something like that ( even though i'd love gardner in washington)

BossHog · 10-24-2004, 09:13 PM

Even if we drafted Big Ben, he wouldn't be playing right now for us.

That Guy · 10-24-2004, 09:30 PM

gardner has gone a couple weeks without drops at least... *shrugs*

Claimer · 10-25-2004, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChounsMan

Patrick looks lost in a new system he's obviously not ready for.

So far this season Ramsey looks like he's still affected by the beating he endured under Spurriers failed system.

On what minimal play time are you basing this observation on? How many snaps a week does Ramsey get with first team?Ramsey SHOULD be starting this is HIS team and the record would be better if he had been starting since game 1.As far as Ben goes no way!Taylor IS ALREADY a star in this league,Ben has had a couple good games,so what?Tommy Maddox had GREAT games as a rookie as well(people said he was the next ELWAY)then he sold insurance for a lot of years.Clint Longley was a Warner wanna be before his time.Point is you don't put a guy in the hall after a few good performances in week 7 of his ROOKIE season.

ChounsMan · 10-25-2004, 09:29 AM

I heard that the WR's have complained that they can't get open to allow Brunell to throw to them, but in Spurriers offense we threw the ball better with Ramsey at QB.

I'd have to say that Ramsey is not at fault, but the system is clearly not allowing the Skins WR's to get open down field. I also could say that Brunell is not looking for his recv'rs long enough, plus Brunell needs to roll out to the right once in awhile. Rolling to the left is becoming too obvious.

SUNRA · 10-25-2004, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChounsMan

I heard that the WR's have complained that they can't get open to allow Brunell to throw to them, but in Spurriers offense we threw the ball better with Ramsey at QB.

I'd have to say that Ramsey is not at fault, but the system is clearly not allowing the Skins WR's to get open down field. I also could say that Brunell is not looking for his recv'rs long enough, plus Brunell needs to roll out to the right once in awhile. Rolling to the left is becoming too obvious.

It really doesn't matter what side a QB rolls out to, someone on that Redskins line is letting guys get threw in Brunell's grill with ease and that's one reason Walter Rasby isn't here. With this offensive line which isn't that great the excuse would be made by Ramsey supporters that he's coming into a new system and the O line isn't protecting him. The system of Spurrier is over. If Ramsey can't shake off what Spurrier did to him what good is he to this team under Gibbs?

EEich · 10-25-2004, 11:11 AM

Brunell doesn't have the arm to get it downfield even if the WRs were open.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChounsMan

I heard that the WR's have complained that they can't get open to allow Brunell to throw to them, but in Spurriers offense we threw the ball better with Ramsey at QB.

I'd have to say that Ramsey is not at fault, but the system is clearly not allowing the Skins WR's to get open down field. I also could say that Brunell is not looking for his recv'rs long enough, plus Brunell needs to roll out to the right once in awhile. Rolling to the left is becoming too obvious.

SUNRA · 10-25-2004, 11:55 AM

...And Ramsey doesn't have the mental toughness to coincide with his big strong arm which seemed to under throw Rod Gardner in double coverage right into the arms of Brent Alexander for his third INT. I know Ramsey had to start with the team in the hole. Ramsey had to play from behind all last year which isn't rare for a QB in the NFL. Why waste a good argument on this guy who will not be here in 2 years?

That Guy · 10-25-2004, 01:22 PM

wow sunra, way to tell people not to bash skins players or scream for their heads and then go ahead and do it yourself.

apparently you have deep conversations with ramsey every night, so you're well informed to talk to us about his mental toughness (and you must talk to brunell a lot too, since you can obviously make the comparisions), AND it looks like Gibbs has already given you the inside scoop that ramsey is being dumped and written off after a few minutes of bad play even though gibbs has stuck with brunell for 5 1/2 games of crap play. You can say ramsey's bad if you'd like, but please don't think that brunell is any better right now.

Gmanc711 · 10-25-2004, 01:39 PM

Its pretty sad when people refer to the same one half of football over and over and over agian to tell how good a qb is...

That Guy · 10-25-2004, 01:43 PM

wow sunra, way to tell people not to bash skins players or scream for their heads and then go ahead and do it yourself.

apparently you have deep conversations with ramsey every night, so you're well informed to talk to us about his mental toughness (and you must talk to brunell a lot too, since you can obviously make the comparisions), AND it looks like Gibbs has already given you the inside scoop that ramsey is being dumped and written off after a few minutes of bad play even though gibbs has stuck with brunell for 5 1/2 games of crap play. You can say ramsey's bad if you'd like, but please don't think that brunell is any better right now.

10-24-2004, 06:12 PM	#35
diehardskin2982 Another Year, another mess. Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,581	personnaly i think ben wouldn't of worked here he wouldn't even be playing. I like our pick but if there would have been anybody that i would have picked over Taylor is Roy Williams of Detroit he is a man child and he would have scored td's unlike our recievers now I'd give ramsey next season... he'll be a beast, not only making the throws but calling plays from the line of scrimmage like manning. he'll know the system. if not brad smith of missouri is my choice the next cullpepper, but i'd rather use the pick on someone like mike williams and trade gardner for picks or something like that ( even though i'd love gardner in washington) __________________ That got ugly fast

10-25-2004, 09:29 AM	#39
ChounsMan Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Connecticut Age: 54 Posts: 312	I heard that the WR's have complained that they can't get open to allow Brunell to throw to them, but in Spurriers offense we threw the ball better with Ramsey at QB. I'd have to say that Ramsey is not at fault, but the system is clearly not allowing the Skins WR's to get open down field. I also could say that Brunell is not looking for his recv'rs long enough, plus Brunell needs to roll out to the right once in awhile. Rolling to the left is becoming too obvious. __________________ Throwing on 4th and inches..!

10-25-2004, 11:55 AM	#42
SUNRA The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,680	...And Ramsey doesn't have the mental toughness to coincide with his big strong arm which seemed to under throw Rod Gardner in double coverage right into the arms of Brent Alexander for his third INT. I know Ramsey had to start with the team in the hole. Ramsey had to play from behind all last year which isn't rare for a QB in the NFL. Why waste a good argument on this guy who will not be here in 2 years? __________________ Redskins Member since 1970

10-25-2004, 01:39 PM	#44
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	Its pretty sad when people refer to the same one half of football over and over and over agian to tell how good a qb is... __________________ #21

10-23-2004, 07:56 PM	#33
joecrisp The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Charlottesville, VA Age: 49 Posts: 1,501	Matty, you took the words right out of my mouth.

10-24-2004, 09:13 PM	#36
BossHog Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Norfolk, Va Posts: 665	Even if we drafted Big Ben, he wouldn't be playing right now for us.

10-24-2004, 09:30 PM	#37
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,620	gardner has gone a couple weeks without drops at least... shrugs

10-25-2004, 01:22 PM	#43
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,620	wow sunra, way to tell people not to bash skins players or scream for their heads and then go ahead and do it yourself. apparently you have deep conversations with ramsey every night, so you're well informed to talk to us about his mental toughness (and you must talk to brunell a lot too, since you can obviously make the comparisions), AND it looks like Gibbs has already given you the inside scoop that ramsey is being dumped and written off after a few minutes of bad play even though gibbs has stuck with brunell for 5 1/2 games of crap play. You can say ramsey's bad if you'd like, but please don't think that brunell is any better right now.

10-25-2004, 01:43 PM	#45
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,620	wow sunra, way to tell people not to bash skins players or scream for their heads and then go ahead and do it yourself. apparently you have deep conversations with ramsey every night, so you're well informed to talk to us about his mental toughness (and you must talk to brunell a lot too, since you can obviously make the comparisions), AND it looks like Gibbs has already given you the inside scoop that ramsey is being dumped and written off after a few minutes of bad play even though gibbs has stuck with brunell for 5 1/2 games of crap play. You can say ramsey's bad if you'd like, but please don't think that brunell is any better right now.

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