Is excitement enough in 2012?

[Paintrain]

HELL NO, SUPER BOWL OR BUST!

Kidding aside, improvement is expected-simply being more entertaining and exciting won't do it. A healthy roster is probably in the 8 win range with the playoffs being an outside possibility. The difficult thing is we've got a hill to climb in the NFC East. Philly should be more consistent, NYG are always solid and prior to 2011 pretty much owned us and we have to overcome collapsing against Dallas. We're not far off, actually we were 3 snaps (4th & 18, broken play long TD pass to Witten, missed Gano FG in OT) from being 4-2 in the division with sweeps over Dallas and NYG.

I'm probably in the minority in believing this but the moves made in this offseason and this draft were more about 2013 and beyond than 2012. The Cousins pick (and really all non RGIII picks) speaks to the 5 year plan Shanahan has referenced and shows his attempt to build the roster for the long term through the draft. If everyone from the 2011 & 2012 draft class make the team, that's 21 first and second year players. The franchise QB is in place, now it's time for the team to grow around him.

Despite the wishes of some around these here parts, the RGIII move bought Shanahan (yes, both of them) another contract. There's no way that absent a complete 1-15 debacle where RGIII turns into Andre Ware 2.0 that they aren't given ample time to grow and develop him. No way will Snyder allow another coach/system changing debacle like Campbell happen with Griffin.

[skinsfan69]

We're still the worst team in the NFC East. This is still a 5-6 win team. Not looking for a jump in wins til 2013 and beyond.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

We're still the worst team in the NFC East. This is still a 5-6 win team. Not looking for a jump in wins til 2013 and beyond.

What caused you to reach this conclusion? We won 5 games with Rex/Beck at the helm, it's reasonable to think RG3 will provide enough of an upgrade over Grossman, even in his first season, that we can win at least a couple more games. Grossman and Beck probably cost us a few games last season.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by mooby

What caused you to reach this conclusion? We won 5 games with Rex/Beck at the helm, it's reasonable to think RG3 will provide enough of an upgrade over Grossman, even in his first season, that we can win at least a couple more games. Grossman and Beck probably cost us a few games last season.

Exactly. Our QB play was plainly incompetent last year. There was no overcoming that.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by mooby

What caused you to reach this conclusion? We won 5 games with Rex/Beck at the helm, it's reasonable to think RG3 will provide enough of an upgrade over Grossman, even in his first season, that we can win at least a couple more games. Grossman and Beck probably cost us a few games last season.

If for no other reason, if RGIII isn't a turnover machine the way Rex was, that is a few games right there by itself... Plus we will have Jenkins back. We have upgraded several key need positions. I can't believe you say we are no better than we were before 69. Close minded.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by mooby

What caused you to reach this conclusion? We won 5 games with Rex/Beck at the helm, it's reasonable to think RG3 will provide enough of an upgrade over Grossman, even in his first season, that we can win at least a couple more games. Grossman and Beck probably cost us a few games last season.

We're still starting a rookie QB that's learning on the job in a tough division. He might win us some games and cost us some too. Also the secondary is still a mess. Too many question marks to win 8-10 games.

[NYCskinfan82]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

We're still starting a rookie QB that's learning on the job in a tough division. He might win us some games and cost us some too. Also the secondary is still a mess. Too many question marks to win 8-10 games.

Eli Manning: Career Stats at NFL.com

Would be nice if his 1st year stats avg. out better than Eli's.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

We're still the worst team in the NFC East. This is still a 5-6 win team. Not looking for a jump in wins til 2013 and beyond.

We were within a breath of beating Dallas twice last year, with Grossman clearly helping the losing cause in one, do you think Ware comes up behind Griffin that same way? Honestly, I see that as a play where Griffin makes a huge play, either with his legs, or his downfield vision as linebackers collapse on him.

We beat the Giants twice, I don't think that means we are better than them by far, but certainly we are competitive with them.

The Eagles seem to have our number, and I think we will continue to struggle against them since I think they match up very well against us. Although I am hoping Griffin's first play against them is an 80 yd TD strike, but that's just due to bitter memories from a certain Monday nighter

Saying we are the worst team in the NFC with out any proof offered seems a tad bit cynical.

[Schneed10]

I see more reasons for optimism than pessimism, actually. I think we're 8-8 or 9-7 here, with the only thing keeping us from 10-6 or 11-5 being the indiscretion of a youthful QB - turnovers.

First off, we were incredibly injured last year. Injured and suspended. The return of healthy players alone is enough to stabilize us a bit. Lichtensteiger was really missed along the offensive line when he went down - it caused us to shuffle pieces that never really fit. And obviously Trent for those last four games. And Brown's hip still wasn't right - by Shanahan's account there's reason to hope that he's in better health this season.

Jarvis Jenkins never got a chance to make an impact for us - he adds depth. Getting rid of Landry is addition by subtraction in a way. You lose quite a talent but at least you have a healthy player in his spot.

Fred Davis returning from suspension and Chris Cooley coming back gives us TE depth. Remember, we were 3-1 at one point before the injuries really started mounting up. Not that we could have gone 12-4 with that team last year, but with health I don't see why 7-9 or 8-8 was unachievable.

Then we get to the improvements - hello real WRs. No star at WR still, but the depth is miles better than it was last year. And lastly, the obvious - QB. Griffin is going to make plenty of mistakes but I think he's going to move the ball. Our offensive line may not be perfect, but he's going to rip off the occasional long TD run when the line breaks down and he escapes.

You have to expect a rookie QB to make mistakes and throw INTs. But Grossman threw 20 last year in like 13 games started, plus he lost 5 more fumbles. I think that's even a lot of turnovers for a rookie. So what I'm saying is, Griffin really can't be worse than Rex was last year.

We'll get torched on long TD passes because I don't love our secondary. And Griffin will make mistakes. But the supporting cast is healthy and deep enough now for us to at least be in the playoff conversation in the month of December.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I see more reasons for optimism than pessimism, actually. I think we're 8-8 or 9-7 here, with the only thing keeping us from 10-6 or 11-5 being the indiscretion of a youthful QB - turnovers.

First off, we were incredibly injured last year. Injured and suspended. The return of healthy players alone is enough to stabilize us a bit. Lichtensteiger was really missed along the offensive line when he went down - it caused us to shuffle pieces that never really fit. And obviously Trent for those last four games. And Brown's hip still wasn't right - by Shanahan's account there's reason to hope that he's in better health this season.

Jarvis Jenkins never got a chance to make an impact for us - he adds depth. Getting rid of Landry is addition by subtraction in a way. You lose quite a talent but at least you have a healthy player in his spot.

Fred Davis returning from suspension and Chris Cooley coming back gives us TE depth. Remember, we were 3-1 at one point before the injuries really started mounting up. Not that we could have gone 12-4 with that team last year, but with health I don't see why 7-9 or 8-8 was unachievable.

Then we get to the improvements - hello real WRs. No star at WR still, but the depth is miles better than it was last year. And lastly, the obvious - QB. Griffin is going to make plenty of mistakes but I think he's going to move the ball. Our offensive line may not be perfect, but he's going to rip off the occasional long TD run when the line breaks down and he escapes.

You have to expect a rookie QB to make mistakes and throw INTs. But Grossman threw 20 last year in like 13 games started, plus he lost 5 more fumbles. I think that's even a lot of turnovers for a rookie. So what I'm saying is, Griffin really can't be worse than Rex was last year.

We'll get torched on long TD passes because I don't love our secondary. And Griffin will make mistakes. But the supporting cast is healthy and deep enough now for us to at least be in the playoff conversation in the month of December.

Great post. I also think Griffin will be an instant upgrade over Rex even adjusting for rookie mistakes.

[Schneed10]

Thinking more about it, the biggest reason for optimism is that one of the weaknesses of the team - pass protection, has largely been mitigated by adding RG3's ability to escape.

The 5 sack-fumbles that Grossman lost last year all could turn into positive plays with Griffin back there. He's just frankly not going to get sacked that often.

[skinsfan69]

I think we all need to remember that the teams in our division have been together a while. All those QB's have been in the same offense and are throwing the the same guys.Vick, Manning and Romo are all in the primes of their careers. We're putting in a lot of new parts in. Gotta be patient and give it time. That's why I'm not expecting a playoff run.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think we all need to remember that the teams in our division have been together a while. All those QB's have been in the same offense and are throwing the the same guys.Vick, Manning and Romo are all in the primes of their careers. We're putting in a lot of new parts in. Gotta be patient and give it time. That's why I'm not expecting a playoff run.

I think the counter point is that we won 5 games with a mediocre QB and could have won 7 quite easily minus a play or two from said QB. 8-8 is a serious possibility. The NFL is an odd beast. Put RG3 on the team last year and what happens? Are we worse?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think we all need to remember that the teams in our division have been together a while. All those QB's have been in the same offense and are throwing the the same guys.Vick, Manning and Romo are all in the primes of their careers. We're putting in a lot of new parts in. Gotta be patient and give it time. That's why I'm not expecting a playoff run.

Fair points, but the Cowboys have been together for a while yet can't seem to win a playoff game. The Giants played great in the clutch, yet barely won the division. The Eagles scare me a bit this year for some reason but they're not the Packers. There are no world beaters in this division. I think we need to get over the notion that the NFC East is a black and blue division right now. It's just frankly not.

That said, I think you need to give more than a cursory blanket statement to support your call for another poor season.

Let's name the reasons why we went 5-11 last year:

1) Lots of injuries and suspensions coupled with poor depth
2) Terrible secondary play
3) Grossman's high turnover rate (20 picks and 5 lost fumbles in 13 games)
4) Not enough skill position weapons

#1 is addressed just by the return of healthy players. #3 is somewhat addressed by Griffin, who will probably throw picks but won't get sacked nearly as much. And #4 is addressed by Garcon, Morgan, and the return of Hankerson and Fred Davis.

2) is still a major problem.

But I don't see how that doesn't equate to at least a 2 or 3 game improvement over last year's 5-11 debacle. Care to elaborate?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Fair points, but the Cowboys have been together for a while yet can't seem to win a playoff game. The Giants played great in the clutch, yet barely won the division. The Eagles scare me a bit this year for some reason but they're not the Packers. There are no world beaters in this division. I think we need to get over the notion that the NFC East is a black and blue division right now. It's just frankly not.

That said, I think you need to give more than a cursory blanket statement to support your call for another poor season.

Let's name the reasons why we went 5-11 last year:

1) Lots of injuries and suspensions coupled with poor depth
2) Terrible secondary play
3) Grossman's high turnover rate (20 picks and 5 lost fumbles in 13 games)
4) Not enough skill position weapons

#1 is addressed just by the return of healthy players. #3 is somewhat addressed by Griffin, who will probably throw picks but won't get sacked nearly as much. And #4 is addressed by Garcon, Morgan, and the return of Hankerson and Fred Davis.

2) is still a major problem.

But I don't see how that doesn't equate to at least a 2 or 3 game improvement over last year's 5-11 debacle. Care to elaborate?

I agree. The biggest thing for everyone to remember too at this point is we're all talking in likelihoods. If we have major injuries we could lose another 10-12 games. If we are remarkably healthy we could win 11-12. When I say 8-8 is reasonable I mean in a typical year with typical injuries and everything working out about average compared to last year.