Meet The Candidates: 2012 GOP Thread

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

"War" on Christmas and gay marriage bans are two issues that are motivated heavily by religious beliefs. Now I'll be the first to admit that the War on Christmas is petty and a pointless cause for those that believe heavily in separation of church and state. Maybe it's to distract the far right from pushing creationism in public schools. I don't know. Personally I don't care for it either way. To me Christmas is purely a commercial holiday.

Gay marriage on the other hand is simply motivated by mass-hysteria promoted by religion and virtually every argument for the ban is motivated either by religious beliefs and/or pure homophobia. Neither of which provides just cause to produce such a ban. Scientific, peer reviewed studies on the other hand fail time and time again to produce any factual evidence for the myth's about gay marriage produced by the far right.



The constitution states, plain as day, that religion is not to have a place in determining policy. That means that if the Far Right can't provide anything beyond the Leviticus passage they can't seek legal means to invoke a ban on civil unions and gay marriage.

And even if the majority of Americans were opposed to gay marriage there are controls in government designed to protect the interests of the minority. Provided those interests aren't based in religious beliefs and/or hate unless said issue is explicit religious persecution, which is a violation of the first amendment.

The only legitimate arguments I've seen against gay marriage cite potential exploitation regarding spousal privilege in criminal cases and green card marriages. And even then we have to admit that spousal privilege is a huge exploit in our legal system. Not to mention an outdated concept that shouldn't have existed in the first place.

Anyway bottom line is this. Anyone with a far in front of their name should encourage you to run like hell.

I dont think you hear me. These stances cant be considered far right, left or far anything else in our country. When nearly half of the people believe in them you cant consider them extreme or "far" type issues from the norm.

So while these issues may make people very divided, both sides express mainstream views no matter how rational or irrational those opposing views are. There are plenty of times i dont like it either, but that doesnt mean someone that who disagrees with me is an extremist, its statistically implausible.

[NC_Skins]

Greatest Rick Perry quote ever and possibly quote of the century:



"I am truly offended that the American public would be hoodwinked by stories that do not scientifically hold up."






Punchline: He believes in God.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I dont think you hear me. These stances cant be considered far right, left or far anything else in our country. When nearly half of the people believe in them you cant consider them extreme or "far" type issues from the norm.

So while these issues may make people very divided, both sides express mainstream views no matter how rational or irrational those opposing views are. There are plenty of times i dont like it either, but that doesnt mean someone that who disagrees with me is an extremist, its statistically implausible.

Okay now I understand what you're getting at. Make no mistake about it though. A lot of those numbers for those that oppose gay marriage and civil unions are from the over 50 crowd. If it's not far right by the numbers now then it will be in time. Only 35% oppose both civil unions and gay marriage.

Another interesting aspect of the poll

In other news though it's nice to see that Ron Paul has a chance to win the GOP. In fact if he wins the nomination I might just register to vote for him. Then again I live in a red state so it might be a moot point.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Okay now I understand what you're getting at. Make no mistake about it though. A lot of those numbers for those that oppose gay marriage and civil unions are from the over 50 crowd. If it's not far right by the numbers now then it will be in time. Only 35% oppose both civil unions and gay marriage.

Another interesting aspect of the poll

In other news though it's nice to see that Ron Paul has a chance to win the GOP. In fact if he wins the nomination I might just register to vote for him. Then again I live in a red state so it might be a moot point.

I wouldn't waste too much time analyzing Gallup presidential polls. They're all snapshots, but Gallup in particular is becoming more of an outlier and usually lags about +5 points behind public sentiment. There's zero chance Ron Paul becomes the GOP nominee, in my opinion. His views on foreign policy resonate with his base of followers and a small faction of liberals, but on the whole they don't reflect conservative values and I think the direction he wants to take government is pretty radical. I think a Ron Paul victory in Iowa is an indicator of how irrelevant Iowa has become in primary voting and not a reflection of Ron Paul's strength as a candidate. But we shall see.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

His views on foreign policy resonate with his base of followers and a small faction of liberals, but on the whole they don't reflect conservative values and I think the direction he wants to take government is pretty radical.

You mean the foreign policy that says we won't be meddling in other people's affairs? Dear god that's a great thing. Did you happen to watch that video I posted on the other page? Apparently not.

I think Americans are tired of war and want our government to get the hell out of other people's business and tend to our own. Paul is hands down the better candidate of those other clueless monkeys.



Also, this.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-out-and-said/

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

"War" on Christmas and gay marriage bans are two issues that are motivated heavily by religious beliefs. Now I'll be the first to admit that the War on Christmas is petty and a pointless cause for those that believe heavily in separation of church and state. Maybe it's to distract the far right from pushing creationism in public schools. I don't know. Personally I don't care for it either way. To me Christmas is purely a commercial holiday.

UPDATE: Camera put up to monitor vandals | LoudounTimes.com

What they gathered to be the meaning of the skeleton Santa was Christmas was being fueled by commercialism and didn’t understand why residents were so up-in-arms over the display.
“Christmas has already been destroyed,” Maria Zumer said. “It’s so commercialized.”

Serious question DirtBag: Are you the Loudon County Courthouse Holiday Display vandal?????

[mlmpetert]

Dirtbag, I agree with you that in time gay marriage will be more accepted but I don’t think it will be anytime soon. Old people arnt dying as fast as they used to, and younger people usually become more socially conservative as they age. I also see no chance of a federal marriage amendment ever happening, the only amendment that didn’t expand civil rights was prohibition and that didn’t work out.

And like you said Obama and Bush are essentially the same in that they are both big spending, big government politicians. Neither the Democratic or Republican parties are fiscally conservative/responsible whatsoever anymore. I too would vote for Ron Paul, but like 12th said I doubt he gets the nomination, but not necessarily because his views don’t resonate with the majority of Americans. To NCSkins point the MainStream Media is so quick to dismiss him, his views have no chance to resonate with the majority of Americans. Just the fact theres a 40+ page thread on a Redskins forum about GOP candidates with dozens of links makes me think a lot of news programs are going to have to change the way they report information. Calling out and discrediting news networks is now easily accessible and is/has become big business, maybe that will change or shape things more as the practice becomes mainstream.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Dirtbag, I agree with you that in time gay marriage will be more accepted but I don’t think it will be anytime soon. Old people arnt dying as fast as they used to, and younger people usually become more socially conservative as they age. I also see no chance of a federal marriage amendment ever happening, the only amendment that didn’t expand civil rights was prohibition and that didn’t work out.

And like you said Obama and Bush are essentially the same in that they are both big spending, big government politicians. Neither the Democratic or Republican parties are fiscally conservative/responsible whatsoever anymore. I too would vote for Ron Paul, but like 12th said I doubt he gets the nomination, but not necessarily because his views don’t resonate with the majority of Americans. To NCSkins point the MainStream Media is so quick to dismiss him, his views have no chance to resonate with the majority of Americans. Just the fact theres a 40+ page thread on a Redskins forum about GOP candidates with dozens of links makes me think a lot of news programs are going to have to change the way they report information. Calling out and discrediting news networks is now easily accessible and is/has become big business, maybe that will change or shape things more as the practice becomes mainstream.

My point about Ron Paul is that most of his foreign policy views don't resonate within his own party. I don't think the rest of America isn't paying attention to this guy yet.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

UPDATE: Camera put up to monitor vandals | LoudounTimes.com




Serious question DirtBag: Are you the Loudon County Courthouse Holiday Display vandal?????

Well as I said before, I could care less about the War on Christmas. I find both sides to be ridiculous. Non-believers are making other non-believers look petty while the religious-right tries to spin it as malicious religious persecution. Nobody wins the War on Christmas. And most importantly the atheist are putting at risk the virtually automatic time off that everyone gets on the 25th and in many cases the 24th.

Now as for the picture. Cross predominantly displayed in front of a government building doesn't sit well with the secular side of me. Regardless of the message. The message itself is relatively interesting but the venue is inappropriate.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Well as I said before, I could care less about the War on Christmas. I find both sides to be ridiculous. Non-believers are making other non-believers look petty while the religious-right tries to spin it as malicious religious persecution. Nobody wins the War on Christmas. And most importantly the atheist are putting at risk the virtually automatic time off that everyone gets on the 25th and in many cases the 24th.

Now as for the picture. Cross predominantly displayed in front of a government building doesn't sit well with the secular side of me. Regardless of the message. The message itself is relatively interesting but the venue is inappropriate.

I think you know, but i was completely kidding. And youre completely right the people that want to make a point by getting the right to put a skelton Santa on a cross in front of a courthouse are crazy and are fing up their own cause.

Christmas may be the most material of all the holidays, but its probably also the most charitable holiday (Thanksgiving up there?).

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert;869629[B

]I think you know, but i was completely kidding. [/B]And youre completely right the people that want to make a point by getting the right to put a skelton Santa on a cross in front of a courthouse are crazy and are fing up their own cause.

Christmas may be the most material of all the holidays, but its probably also the most charitable holiday (Thanksgiving up there?).

With all the deadpan post I throw out there I was due to get caught up in someone elses, lol.

[Gary84Clark]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Well as I said before, I could care less about the War on Christmas. I find both sides to be ridiculous. Non-believers are making other non-believers look petty while the religious-right tries to spin it as malicious religious persecution. Nobody wins the War on Christmas. And most importantly the atheist are putting at risk the virtually automatic time off that everyone gets on the 25th and in many cases the 24th.

Now as for the picture. Cross predominantly displayed in front of a government building doesn't sit well with the secular side of me. Regardless of the message. The message itself is relatively interesting but the venue is inappropriate.

Halloween Christmas I don't get it.

[Dirtbag59]

[Dirtbag59]

Clinton is one of the greatest presidents in American history. We would be lucky to get another president that was committed to balancing the budget, creating jobs, and handling foreign affairs in a way that doesn't bankrupt the economy (see the Balkans). From what I understand Obama and Bush are two sides of the same coin in that they both created debt at an alarming rate.

The way I see it you need a Clinton in the white house in the event of the dem's getting the White House and a Regan if the GOP gets the election. Seeing as how Obama is not a Clinton we're left keeping our fingers crossed for a Regan-esque President to emerge from the GOP. Such is the life of an independent.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Clinton is one of the greatest presidents in American history. We would be lucky to get another president that was committed to balancing the budget, creating jobs, and handling foreign affairs in a way that doesn't bankrupt the economy (see the Balkans). From what I understand Obama and Bush are two sides of the same coin in that they both created debt at an alarming rate.

The way I see it you need a Clinton in the white house in the event of the dem's getting the White House and a Regan if the GOP gets the election. Seeing as how Obama is not a Clinton we're left keeping our fingers crossed for a Regan-esque President to emerge from the GOP. Such is the life of an independent.

Clinton was going to bust the budget wide open with Hillary care if he was allowed. It was only when the Rep. and Newt. took control of the house that Clinton agreed to cut spending. I'll give him credit for seeing that the American people wanted to balance the budget but that was only after the land slide victory of the Rep. after his second yr in office.