Cousins to start 2015 Season

[RedskinJake]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

We could bring back smaller more mobile offensive lineman that can get to the second level and block in space.

It is, after all, the only system Griffin has won actual NFL games in. He might make it half way through a season before he breaks something again.

If we're chasing success from a few years ago we could cut Griffin and sign Tim Tebow.

He has had better success in the playoffs than Griffin.

Or, we could stick with the proven McLovin plan and build a team with depth across the board and plug in QBs until we hit on one that works.

Maybe Spurrier is looking to come back to the NFL for 2 years to pull down another 25mil..

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Hog1

It's STILL not to late to re-start the.................hate fest, right?

Lol, no need to re-start, it never ends! Just keep it going.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

Exactly.....It is, after all, the only system Griffin has won actual NFL games in. He might make it half way through a season before he breaks something again.

Jol, "Exactly" as if your post had anything at all to do with the point of my post. The overriding theme in this thread is that responding to a post only needs to be incidentally remotely related to the actual post.

Also by completely avoiding the point of the post you actually illustrate how the facts don't really matter anymore. Mike Shanahan prolly won't (and shouldn't) ever get an NFL HC job again. But he's done a bang-up job of shifting any discussion about his firing away from the actual reasons he was fired and onto Griffin and Dan.

Also, a quick point of fact, that will likely be ignored or purposefully conflated. But this is the second time you've mentioned read-option as a cause for Griffin injuries yet neither of his injury occurred doing read-option.

And, my post clearly states I was talking about 2013. I wasn't lauding the offense either I was just reminding people that despite the feeling and perceptions about the offense that year the offense was still the best unit on the team.

None of which has anything to do with....

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

Or, we could stick with the proven McLovin plan and build a team with depth across the board and plug in QBs until we hit on one that works.

But kudos, almost Mike Shanahan level of topic shifting.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Jol, "Exactly" as if your post had anything at all to do with the point of my post. Its an illustration of how the facts don't really matter anymore. Mike Shanahan prolly won't (and shouldn't) ever get an NFL HC job again. But he's done a bang-up job of shifting any discussion about his firing away from the actual reasons he was fired and onto Griffin and Dan.

Also, a quick point of fact, that will likely be ignored or purposefully conflated. But this is the second time you've mentioned read-option as a cause for Griffin injuries yet neither of his injury occurred doing read-option.

And, my post clearly states I was talking about 2013.

I'm not claiming the read option broke him, RG2 and RG3 were passively at least.

I'm assuming that's why they no longer wanted him to be an option QB

I have no idea if the next injury will be caused by him holding on to the ball too long, scrambling into a 340lb nose tackle running full speed, trying to recover a fumble, when he shouldn't have been in the game, or jumping awkwardly out of bounds trying to complete a pass.

BTW, I hate the red lobster. His ego and the success he had here is literally identical to Griffin's plenty of blame to go around.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

....RG2 and RG3 were passively at least.

I'm assuming that's why they no longer wanted him to be an option QB

A couple things. Bringing up RGII carries very little weight in my opinion, he's an outsider that has 0 power. Second an oft overlooked point of fact is that Griffin actually ran read-option in the 2013 season from week 4 on. So all the rhetoric or posturing about whether or not Griffin will/will not likes/doesn't/didn't like read-option is moot because the fact is that he will run read-option because he did run read-option in the 2013 season, but Mike's agenda induced amnesia doesn't recall. And lets not forget that in 2013 he was coming off major knee surgery.
Any sane person would be more then a little gunshy/protective when it comes to a major knee injury. (neither here nor there but I read somewhere that after acl tears players are nervous about sliding feet first because they're worried about getting their foot snagged.)

I have no idea if the next injury

We also have no idea whether he'll get injured at all or injured at a higher rate then any other QB. Its the NFL, everyone gets hurt. Its why being available is such a rare and valuable quality.

BTW, I hate the red lobster. His ego and the success he had here is literally identical to Griffin's plenty of blame to go around.

But unsurprisingly your comments focused not on the myriad of Mike's coaching mistakes but upon Griffin.

[DYoungJelly]

RGIII listens to RGII. He is basically and NFL dance mom. Dan listens(ed) to RGIII.

I don't know what to say regarding the certainty of injury. I really don't.

Mike Shanahan was fired almost two years ago. RGIII is still on the roster.

[OnceWeWereKings]

It's hilarious watching 30 argue a point that he agreed with. Dude is clown shoes.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Jol, "Exactly" as if your post had anything at all to do with the point of my post. The overriding theme in this thread is that responding to a post only needs to be incidentally remotely related to the actual post..

No. The over-riding theme of this thread is your consistent attempt to deflect legitimate, relevant points by asserting they are unresponsive.

Your original assertion was that (1) the RGIII run R/O offense was the best thing about Shanny's team; (2) Shanny was blaming his failure on RGIII and essentially getting away with it.

DYJ's point, which was obvious to everyone else but you, was that - yes, you are correct. RGIII was successful in Shanny's Read Option offense. In fact, it was the ONLY offense in which RGIII - who you assert is a viable fall back option at the QB position - has been successful. Since that's the case, in order to develop or otherwise keep RGIII a viable option, we should hire the designer of that offense, K. Shanahan and get personnel to fit the design. Or ... we could stay with the current SM plan of big burly guys and a more traditional offense - for which RGIII has never shown an aptitude.

DYJ just forgot to turn on his sarcasm fault.

DYJ even agreed that Shanny needed to go and, oh by the way, is gone. Further, that everyone, Shanahan, RGIII, and Dan were to blame for the fiasco that was 2013. You, however, appear to excuse the RGIII of any fault. Implying instead that he was a good little soldier who would do as told ("He played the RO in 2013; Of course after an injury he was gun shy"). So to be clear, Shanny had plenty to be held accountable for in 2013; we all agree on that. Contrary to your prior assertion, it does not appear anyone on this board is buying his "blame it all on RGIII and DS" routine.

By the way, facts do matter to others, but, apparently, not to you:
- Many on and off the field factors caused the failures of 2013 and their was plenty of blame to go around - including RGIII;
- RGIII has never shown any aptitude for any offense other than MS/KS's read option;
- RGIII has suffered more injuries and missed more games than any other "breakout" QB from 2012 (Luck, Wilson, Kapernick - how many games have they missed? Combined?);
- The only offense RGIII succeeded in is built on a premise completely different from that which SM is attempting to build and one for which he has not shown an aptitude and in which he has shown any growth.

Originally Posted by 30gut

But kudos, almost Mike Shanahan level of topic shifting.

No. He did not topic shift. He addressed specific points you raised, and highlighted flaws in your over arching premise (RGIII a viable fall-back option) by adoption and application of your argument regarding the appropriate blame to leveled at Shanahan.

Again, you either intentionally or unintentionally fail to recognize and acknowledge relevant, responsive points. If the former, well then you are an obtuse troll. If the later, a little consideration for the fact that we may actually be able to grasp your brilliance would be appreciated.

[KI Skins Fan]

^ He's hopeless, Joe. I simply put him on my ignore list.

[JoeRedskin]

Well, that's just the thing. He does, at times, raise legitimate, interesting points that could form the basis for a good discussion. [Yes, I disagree that, at this stage, for where this team is going, RGIII is a legitimate fall back option. However, I get the "let's keep him in case the JG/KC experiment fails" argument. I actually bought into it until his latest off-the-field drama, injury and apparent on-field issues.]

It's just that, in order to set the boundaries of a discussion, he generally asks a loaded question which requires anyone replying to it to accept his premise in order to respond to it. Thus, rather than a real discussion, it becomes an exercise in "See how right my unassailable premise is." Those who disagree with the premise and phrase a response that incorporates the disagreement are simply dismissed as "unresponsive." It really is just a rhetorical gadget play because, technically, those who disagree with the premise can't respond to the specific question.

It's a cross-examination technique that can be a very persuasive rhetorical technique IF you lay the proper foundation such that you get everyone to agree with the question's underlying premise [b/c then there is only one "right" answer]. He never does that, and, in fact, I suspect knows folks don't agree with the premise so he skips the first part intentionally and then claims the rhetorical high ground by asserting others are unresponsive. It's just intellectually lazy and insulting to those trying to actually discuss competing viewpoints and opinions.

It's the damn internet - not a scholarly debate. A little recognition that most responses are relatively stream of conscience so slack needs to be cut and an open mind needs to be kept. Otherwise its all mental masturbation and Big Man On Internet bull crap.

If he spent less time being pedantic and dismissive of others and more time actually looking for and acknowledging points of agreement, he actually could add to the discussion rather than just attempt to prove himself correct through rhetorical sleight of hand.

He isn't quite at Goat levels of obnoxiousness yet (Still the only guy I have ever put on ignore). Getting there, but not yet. There is still hope.

Hey, if punch could come around, anyone can -

[Ruhskins]

Oh man, two Goat references in the same week? LOL.

[SCRedskinsFan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Well, that's just the thing. He does, at times, raise legitimate, interesting points that could form the basis for a good discussion. [Yes, I disagree that, at this stage, for where this team is going, RGIII is a legitimate fall back option. However, I get the "let's keep him in case the JG/KC experiment fails" argument. I actually bought into it until his latest off-the-field drama, injury and apparent on-field issues.]

It's just that, in order to set the boundaries of a discussion, he generally asks a loaded question which requires anyone replying to it to accept his premise in order to respond to it. Thus, rather than a real discussion, it becomes an exercise in "See how right my unassailable premise is." Those who disagree with the premise and phrase a response that incorporates the disagreement are simply dismissed as "unresponsive." It really is just a rhetorical gadget play because, technically, those who disagree with the premise can't respond to the specific question

It's a cross-examination technique that can be a very persuasive rhetorical technique IF you lay the proper foundation such that you get everyone to agree with the question's underlying premise [b/c then there is only one "right" answer]. He never does that, and, in fact, I suspect knows folks don't agree with the premise so he skips the first part intentionally and then claims the rhetorical high ground by asserting others are unresponsive. It's just intellectually lazy and insulting to those trying to actually discuss competing viewpoints and opinions.

It's the damn internet - not a scholarly debate. A little recognition that most responses are relatively stream of conscience so slack needs to be cut and an open mind needs to be kept. Otherwise its all mental masturbation and Big Man On Internet bull crap.

If he spent less time being pedantic and dismissive of others and more time actually looking for and acknowledging points of agreement, he actually could add to the discussion rather than just attempt to prove himself correct through rhetorical sleight of hand.

He isn't quite at Goat levels of obnoxiousness yet (Still the only guy I have ever put on ignore). Getting there, but not yet. There is still hope.

Hey, if punch could come around, anyone can -

Love this post, right on JoeR!

By the way, was "stream of conscience" a Freudian slip?

[OnceWeWereKings]

I think he's a sociopath. Or at the very least has narcissistic personality disorder.
Or he's just clown shoes.

[Schneed10]

30 honestly I've started to completely ignore your posts because they get to the point where they're arguing whether someone else made a valid point that addresses the very specific point you want addressed, and less and less real discussion on football.

The only reason I know that you're even being a pain in the ass is because I've read JR's posts here.

People will begin to ignore you if reading your stuff gets to the point where it's not worth it. I like to read posts about the Redskins, not a bunch of drivel as to whether you think someone is arguing a point you think is valid. You're on the road to irrelevance.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SCRedskinsFan

... was "stream of conscience" a Freudian slip?

No. I'm a lawyer. I have no conscience which to stream.