AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by mheisig

You forget that the average ADHD football fan is to enamored with the pretty footballs flying through the air to pay attention to statistics.

Fact of the matter is that even the famously "pass happy" offenses like the Patriots and Colts also have Top Ten running games.

The Colts running game is #5 overall, averaging 31 rushes per game, 4.4 YPC and 140 yds/game.

The Patriots running game is #8 overall, averaging 32 rushes per game, 4.2 YPC and 135 yds/game.

As saden said, historically in the NFL the run game is used to establish the pass and I see no reason whatsoever to think any differently in 2007.

The difference is those teams pass and sprinkle in run plays. They DO NOT try and come out and play smashmouth all the time.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

How many playoff games has Jacksonville won since Del Rio took over with his style of play? None. That style only gets you so far in today's NFL.. Especially in the AFC.

Regarding Pittsburgh, yes they play smashmouth BUT they get big plays out of the passing game all the time. 15 passing TD's this year. Only NE, Dallas and Clev. have more. They get the ball to the wideouts, Ward and Holmes.

Just look around in the NFC. The teams that pass it the best just happen to have the best records. Dallas, Seattle, NYG, GB, and Det. Even NO who looks like they are going to be in the playoff hunt. All of them can pass it. We can't and that's why we probably are not going anywhere.

How do you think they set up the big plays?

As for those teams you mentioned only Detroit and Green Bay don't run the ball well, and even Detroit has been coming on as of late. You simply can't discount the importance of being able to the run ball. If Green Bay doesn't find a running game I don't care how well they can throw it their inability to run it will catch up with them come playoff time.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Or to our 11th ranked 2005 offense which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.

Oh my god. Back to 05. We beat a bunch of teams that were playing with back up QB's. I'm not taking anything away from that but we got alot of nice breaks with other teams injuries. But the Dallas and Giants game were legit.

But in the end that 11th ranked offense couldn't even get 50 yards passing in a playoff game and had to have the defense win the game. That is why Sanders has a job here.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Just look around in the NFC. The teams that pass it the best just happen to have the best records. Dallas, Seattle, NYG, GB, and Det. Even NO who looks like they are going to be in the playoff hunt. All of them can pass it. We can't and that's why we probably are not going anywhere.

Not true.

Combined Record of the Top 10 Rushing Teams (NFL): 50-22

Combined Record of the Top 10 Passing Teams (NFL): 47-25

You simply cannot argue that the passing teams have the best records, because they don't. Using your line of reasoning the only thing you could argue is that the difference is negligible or the rushing teams have a slight advantage.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The difference is those teams pass and sprinkle in run plays. They DO NOT try and come out and play smashmouth all the time.

Patriots Pass Attempts/game: 34
Patriots Rush Attempts/game: 32

Colts Pass Attempts/game: 33
Colts Rush Attempts/game: 31

You're saying that an almost perfect 50/50 balance of Pass/Rush attempts means that these teams are "sprinkling in run plays"?

Seriously, NFL.com Statistics. Give it a try some time - it makes for far more intelligent arguments.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

How do you think they set up the big plays?

As for those teams you mentioned only Detroit and Green Bay don't run the ball well, and even Detroit has been coming on as of late. You simply can't discount the importance of being able to the run ball. If Green Bay doesn't find a running game I don't care how well they can throw it their inability to run it will catch up with them come playoff time.

In no way do I discount it. Not at all. But I just don't think it's life or death like Gibbs and Bugel do. That is why they are not in touch with today's NFL. If they would just look around they would see what the good teams are doing and adjust. That's why I'm so down on Gibbs. He was simply the master at adjusting his 1st go around. Who was better at adjusting than Gibbs 1? No one.

If he would just look at the line he would know that they can't play smash mouth. Everyone knows we are going to run to the left side, and Fabini and Wade can not run block.

I remember the 89 team. Just barely missed the playoffs cause of massive injuries. The rb's were all beat up and he just said I'm going to put it on Monk, Clark and Sanders. That was the year all 3 went over 1,000 yards. How many times has that ever been done in the NFL? 2-3 times maybe?? So this is the stuff I'm talking about. The guy knows offensive football. He was the first one to come out with the bunch sets and one back stuff. But he is so damn stubborn about opening up the offense and putting it on the WR's who are suppose to be the strength of the team. Plus he's got Sanders here. Yet we still can't score points and we are 27th or 28th in offense? We have all these wr's and a deep ball thrower yet not one single wr has a td pass this year??? If I were Snyder I would be so damn pissed it's not even funny.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Oh my god. Back to 05. We beat a bunch of teams that were playing with back up QB's. I'm not taking anything away from that but we got alot of nice breaks with other teams injuries. But the Dallas and Giants game were legit.

But in the end that 11th ranked offense couldn't even get 50 yards passing in a playoff game and had to have the defense win the game. That is why Sanders has a job here.

What does an opponents' QB have to do with running all over a defense? And how is it that you attribute other teams' losses to their injuries, but you don't attribute our woes on offense during the 2005 playoffs to our injuries (e.g., Portis)? Why the double-standard?

As for the notion that teams must field pass-first offenses in order to be successful, I beg to differ. As others have pointed out, look no further than to teams like the Steelers, Jags, Titans, Bears, Falcons, Ravens, etc.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Patriots Pass Attempts/game: 34
Patriots Rush Attempts/game: 32

Colts Pass Attempts/game: 33
Colts Rush Attempts/game: 31

You're saying that an almost perfect 50/50 balance of Pass/Rush attempts means that these teams are "sprinkling in run plays"?

Seriously, NFL.com Statistics. Give it a try some time - it makes for far more intelligent arguments.

I don't need a silly stat line to have an intelligent argument. I can watch the games and see for myself.

Look at it this way. I don't know the yardage stats but I would bet that those teams are all well over 200 yards a game passing. They get plays in the passing game that are over 15 yards. That means they don't have to have 10-15 play drives to score. Yes it's good if you can do that but defenses are too good. You have to be able to score on let's say 4-7 play drives sometimes.

Plus those teams don't come out and try and establish the run at all costs. They play 3rd down offense on 1st down where it is a little easier to get big passing plays. We never play 3rd down offense on 1st down. Do you ever see JC in shotgun on 1st down? No.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

What does an opponents' QB have to do with running all over a defense? And how is it that you attribute other teams' losses to their injuries, but you don't attribute our woes on offense during the 2005 playoffs to our injuries (e.g., Portis)? Why the double-standard?

As for the notion that teams must field pass-first offenses in order to be successful, I beg to differ. As others have pointed out, look no further than to teams like the Steelers, Jags, Titans, Bears, Falcons, Ravens, etc.

You are missing my point. Read my post to Matty.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Patriots Pass Attempts/game: 34
Patriots Rush Attempts/game: 32

Colts Pass Attempts/game: 33
Colts Rush Attempts/game: 31

You're saying that an almost perfect 50/50 balance of Pass/Rush attempts means that these teams are "sprinkling in run plays"?

Seriously, NFL.com Statistics. Give it a try some time - it makes for far more intelligent arguments.

Thank you.

I love posts where people back up what they are saying with some hard data, vs. what they "observe".

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I don't need a silly stat line to have an intelligent argument. I can watch the games and see for myself.

Look at it this way. I don't know the yardage stats but I would bet that those teams are all well over 200 yards a game passing. They get plays in the passing game that are over 15 yards. That means they don't have to have 10-15 play drives to score. Yes it's good if you can do that but defenses are too good. You have to be able to score on let's say 4-7 play drives sometimes.

Plus those teams don't come out and try and establish the run at all costs. They play 3rd down offense on 1st down where it is a little easier to get big passing plays. We never play 3rd down offense on 1st down. Do you ever see JC in shotgun on 1st down? No.

Understood. Who needs a "silly stat line" when anecdotal observations and unquantifiable assertions are the name of the game.

Looks like we have the makings of a good discussion.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Thank you.

I love posts where people back up what they are saying with some hard data, vs. what they "observe".

Actually, Matty, that was just a "silly stat line."

I docked myself a few reputation points for using that "silly stat line."

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

You are missing my point. Read my post to Matty.

That addressed a different point. Your original post seemed to state that teams pass to set up the run or that run, run, run offenses can't make it in the NFL.

[redskins5044]

this offense we play is to predictable. same offense we had before we had saunders. we never spread teams out with 4 wrs. i know our o-line is hurt and struggling but you need to give teams some different looks. going into every week i keep hoping the offenese shows up and spread teams out and show some of that saunders play book. if we can beat the jets we will be 5-3 and most of us would have taken that before the season started. i just hope we can get the offense on track and not lose anybody else to injury

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Or to our 11th ranked 2005 offense which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.

Don't forget to go along with that smashmouth style, we also had a pretty good passing game. Brunell was the 3rd rated passer in the NFC that year, and likely should have gone to the probowl, but they had to make room for the wonderful person that his Michael Vick, the 14th rated passer in the NFC, who was almost as efficient as Josh McCown.

This team just seems to be better on offense with an efficent running game, although the passing game needs to be clicking also.

In the first half of 2006, the rushing game was terrible, but the passing game kept us close (which is good because we were chasing because we were running the ball awful and playing crappy defense) against bad teams. Then we benched our QB and our passing game, but our rushing game found itself.

This year, the idea was going to be to put it back together like in 2005, but on the contrary, both aspect are crappy although for entirely different reasons.

The offense may very well need the running game to come back for the passing game to be effective. Our timing routes don't work. Period. I have no problem with the coaches trying to reestablish the running game as long as they try something new. The old crap from the last 6 games isn't going to work, and we are wasting plays trying it.

A QB's best friend is a competant running game, and Campbell doesn't have it right now for the first time in his college or pro career.