Jason Whitlock column on Taylor

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Frankly, it's high time for self-examination and social commentary when a young man like Taylor is snuffed out just when he's getting his life together. If you don't believe that hip hop culture glorifies murder, and de-sensitives black youth to violence, then you're not paying attention. I think that Whitlock is saying that if young black men were killed with today's regularity by the original KKK, there would be moral outrage. You don't sense outrage to the carnage against black men today. Instead, there's a "don't snitch" mentality, again perpetuated by hip hop culture that rationalizes self-genocide. Whitlock and others like Bill Cosby who have the courage to speak up on this issue are spot on.

Jason Whitlock cannot speak out against an entire culture, which (for those that do not know) is what hip hop is - bad, good, and indifferent.

It's the same as a non-sports or non-football fan speaking out against the issues caused by the football culture... which among other things also glorifies and promotes violence.

[warriorzpath]

... and i'm not making a case against football culture; my point is that all cultures have a good and bad side - and you have to take the good with the bad. And I also understand that you have to address the social issues, but who is providing solutions or options? You can't get rid of a whole culture, which I think everybody thinks is the answer. So what do you do? Who has the answers? I haven't seen any yet.

And if you question that hip hop is not a culture, just look around.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I'm a white guy so please accept the following question is intended without malice: What is it with that segment of the black community that idealizes the thug lifestyle? (I know that there are segments of all races that idolize it but you know what I mean) I just don't get it. What's the appeal? I've had friends/coworkers who just absolutely let every opportunity to improve themselves pass by because that would be "selling out." For the life of me I dont' get it. It's disgusting to me but I can only imagine it must be truly exhasperating to be black and to see this from your own people in such large quantities. How do you protect your kids from these view points? If these questions/views offend anyone, I apologize, they're honestly just questions, not indictments of anyone's background.

Bleed, you bring up some very, very good points. I've been struggling to come up with a response for you, but I just can't.

There is no real "one" answer, because the problem comes from so many different sources. It is exasperating, especially because it is so senseless and pointless.

[BleedBurgundy]

Technically, i think Hip Hop would best be defined as a sub-culture, but I get what you're saying. But I look back to Brudlee's earlier comment in this thread. There wouldn't be today's version of Hip Hop if there were not a pre-existing hopelessness and lack of positive leadership in the urban community.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by memphisskin

The Black KKK, I didn't take that to be hip hop, but rather a reference to the Black on Black crime that has become rampant in America, and without uproar there is acceptance.

I think he is mainly attacking hip hop in this article:
You're damn straight I blame hip hop for playing a role in the genocide of American black men. When your leading causes of death and dysfunction are murder, ignorance and incarceration, there's no reason to give a free pass to a culture that celebrates murder, ignorance and incarceration.

Of course there are other catalysts, but until we recapture the minds of black youth, convince them that it's not OK to "super man dat ho" and end any and every dispute by "cocking on your bitch," nothing will change. Does a Soulja Boy want an education?"

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I think he is mainly attacking hip hop in this article:
You're damn straight I blame hip hop for playing a role in the genocide of American black men. When your leading causes of death and dysfunction are murder, ignorance and incarceration, there's no reason to give a free pass to a culture that celebrates murder, ignorance and incarceration.

Of course there are other catalysts, but until we recapture the minds of black youth, convince them that it's not OK to "super man dat ho" and end any and every dispute by "cocking on your bitch," nothing will change. Does a Soulja Boy want an education?"

Warriorzpath, do you take an attack on hip hop personally? I am just curious. If so, what about the culture appeals to you?

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Technically, i think Hip Hop would best be defined as a sub-culture, but I get what you're saying. But I look back to Brudlee's earlier comment in this thread. There wouldn't be today's version of Hip Hop if there were not a pre-existing hopelessness and lack of positive leadership in the urban community.

First off, I respectfully disagree with your statement that hip hop is only a subculture. And there may be issues to be addressed in hip hop, but how do we address them?

You can list all of the causes of hip hop's negatives and the results of its influence, but cannot list one viable solution?

How about, first of all, trying to get with the hip hop leaders and talking to them. I hear that Sean Combs and Russell Simmons is feeling out the political arena. What about something like that ?

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Warriorzpath, do you take an attack on hip hop personally? I am just curious. If so, what about the culture appeals to you?

Yes, a big part of my life has and is influenced by hip hop. The number one thing that hip hop represents, and strongly connect with, is Perseverance. This country's culture and the country itself has been built by the underdogs who strived and flourished with the odds stacked against them. That's what hip hop is to me. Just look at my name.

[warriorzpath]

Those that think that murder and violence are the poster themes of hip hop, just think twice. That's only what the salesmen sell to you and that's how you get interested. If you really want to know what hip hop is about - dig deeper. But only if you want to- if you don't, I can't help you. It's like someone thinking that Michael Vick and Pacman Jones are the role models and are the current representatives of the NFL.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

First off, I respectfully disagree with your statement that hip hop is only a subculture. And there may be issues to be addressed in hip hop, but how do we address them?

You can list all of the causes of hip hop's negatives and the results of its influence, but cannot list one viable solution?

How about, first of all, trying to get with the hip hop leaders and talking to them. I hear that Sean Combs and Russell Simmons is feeling out the political arena. What about something like that ?

I'd have no problem at all with any individual trying their hand at politics regardless of their views. Everyone should have the chance to be heard. A good idea can come from everywhere. HOWEVER- I do not believe that an individual can make their fortune off of misfortune and still be a driving force for good. It just sends the wrong message. When I say makes a fortune off of misfortune I'm referring to glamorizing violence and cruelty to make a buck. Make no mistake, it is being glamorized.

As for a viable solution, if I had all the answers I'd be giving them to you. But I will say this. I think the answer involves a lot of education. I think it involves alot of individuals in these communities stepping up and saying that they will not accept a culture of violence for their children. I believe it takes consumers being responsible about where they put their money. Basically, it takes dedication to improvement.

Edit- I just read your latest post. IF violence is not a key element in hip hop, if it is only what the salesmen sell, then don't you think it is important that the positive forces in hip hop start getting the pub that all of the thugs are currently receiving? Personally, I am not a fan of rap music because of the message, not the delivery. I don't envy those in economically difficult situations, nor those in prison, nor those making money selling drugs. That may be only the vocal minority in the hip hop community espousing those views but as a very casual observer, that is what I am hearing.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

I'd have no problem at all with any individual trying their hand at politics regardless of their views. Everyone should have the chance to be heard. A good idea can come from everywhere. HOWEVER- I do not believe that an individual can make their fortune off of misfortune and still be a driving force for good. It just sends the wrong message. When I say makes a fortune off of misfortune I'm referring to glamorizing violence and cruelty to make a buck. Make no mistake, it is being glamorized.

As for a viable solution, if I had all the answers I'd be giving them to you. But I will say this. I think the answer involves a lot of education. I think it involves alot of individuals in these communities stepping up and saying that they will not accept a culture of violence for their children. I believe it takes consumers being responsible about where they put their money. Basically, it takes dedication to improvement.

I don't know if you were able to read my last couple of posts, but those would be my reply to this.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I don't know if you were able to read my last couple of posts, but those would be my reply to this.

Yeah, I just edited my post to reply to that, we were playing the posting equivalent of phone tag.

Honestly, what you talk about hip hop representing is something I think anyone with a somewhat open mind can respect. I just think that all of those positive messages are hidden behind a layer of filth. And that's a shame.

[JWsleep]

Hip hop is flexible enough--and powerful enough--to glorify things other than thugs, gangstas and ho's. Many people have mentioned Public Enemy--you can produce great music with a positive and intelligent message and not be a sell-out. (I certainly don't agree with everything PE preached, but they showed it could be done.)

On perseverance: It depends on what one is persevering for. If "keeping it real" means remaining a thug and a criminal in the face of society, then I do not support it. If "keeping it real" means finding a way to retain your cultural identity while succeeding as a community, who could be against it? That's the issue. Bill Cosby and Jason Whitlock are not telling people to abandon their culture; rather, they are telling people to give up those elements that are systematically destroying many neighborhoods with fear, violence, ignorance, and despair. I do not believe that the relevant segment of African-American (and hip-hop) culture would be any less real, dynamic, powerful, or persevering if it abandoned the glorification of thugs.

BTW, how much money has the (largely white owned and controlled) recording industry made off of thug-oriented rap? My opinion is that, often, "keeping it real" means "getting paid," no matter what the cost to the community.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

Jason Whitlock cannot speak out against an entire culture, which (for those that do not know) is what hip hop is - bad, good, and indifferent.

It's the same as a non-sports or non-football fan speaking out against the issues caused by the football culture... which among other things also glorifies and promotes violence.

Comparing the physical violence of football to gun violence promoted by popular culture doesn't wash for me. Football players get hurt on the field of play. Young folks are dying in droves from gun violence.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

Hip hop is flexible enough--and powerful enough--to glorify things other than thugs, gangstas and ho's. Many people have mentioned Public Enemy--you can produce great music with a positive and intelligent message and not be a sell-out. (I certainly don't agree with everything PE preached, but they showed it could be done.)

On perseverance: It depends on what one is persevering for. If "keeping it real" means remaining a thug and a criminal in the face of society, then I do not support it. If "keeping it real" means finding a way to retain your cultural identity while succeeding as a community, who could be against it? That's the issue. Bill Cosby and Jason Whitlock are not telling people to abandon their culture; rather, they are telling people to give up those elements that are systematically destroying many neighborhoods with fear, violence, ignorance, and despair. I do not believe that the relevant segment of African-American (and hip-hop) culture would be any less real, dynamic, powerful, or persevering if it abandoned the glorification of thugs.

BTW, how much money has the (largely white owned and controlled) recording industry made off of thug-oriented rap? My opinion is that, often, "keeping it real" means "getting paid," no matter what the cost to the community.

Yes, completely, and you could make that arguement about a hell of a lot of industries. A lot of people getting rich off of other's misfortune.