Bucs fire Coach Jon Gruden and GM Bruce Allen

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Well then Kiffin deserves some credit for Gruden being fired, because his defense got lit up at the end of the season. The Bucs D has been solid the last few years, much like the Skins D, but they haven't been an elite unit for a while.

Maybe. I think it's interesting though that Gruden gets fired after the same season Kiffin announces he's leaving.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Maybe. I think it's interesting though that Gruden gets fired after the same season Kiffin announces he's leaving.

You're right. Probably as good a time as any to start fresh with a whole new regime. I'm sure that had something to do with it.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Maybe. I think it's interesting though that Gruden gets fired after the same season Kiffin announces he's leaving.

Well, I mean, makes sense to me. Kiffin was going anyway, why wait until Gruden loses a bunch of seasons in a row to jettison him when you're already moving the DC out now.

They must love Raheem Morris a lot, and good for them. There's no reason to sit him at defensive coordinator behind Gruden until you're tired of him. Just make the switch now when you know he's not going to be your head coach for the forseeable future.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I agree with some of this, however the Bucs (and I guess that's why the GM got fired) should have done something at QB. They kept piling up these backup QBs at best (Garcia, Griese, Plummer) and not make an effort to get a really good QB. I think they used to have a good running game, and got a lot out of the likes of Joey Galloway. I think if the Bucs had gotten a good QB, they would have fared better. Garcia was prob their best QB, but his age is showing.

Couldn't agree more. There's a reason no one else wants Garcia as their starter. They would have been one of the better teams in the NFC with a better QB. Actually, they pretty much were one of the better teams in the NFC year in and year out. A good QB would have gotten them over the hump.

[DarkKnight]

Hell no! i dont want his fake chucky ass in D.C., I'm glad he got fired, he lived off T.Dungy team until it all ran out then, what did he build? thats right not a got-damn thing, I though he was over-rated trash. every year, after he won the SB, with Dungy team, he hasnt gotten better..........F#$% Chuck!

[GTripp0012]

How do you get better than winning the super bowl? Win the Senior Bowl in that same year?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by DarkKnight

Hell no! i dont want his fake chucky ass in D.C., I'm glad he got fired, he lived off T.Dungy team until it all ran out then, what did he build? thats right not a got-damn thing, I though he was over-rated trash. every year, after he won the SB, with Dungy team, he hasnt gotten better..........F#$% Chuck!

Gruden had 2 winning seasons out of the four seasons he was with the Raides (under Al Davis nonetheless). He actually had no losing seasons, going:

'98: 8-8
'99: 8-8
'00: 12-4 (went to AFC Championship)
'01: 10-6 (lost to NE in the "Tuck" game in the playoffs

Yes, he took Tony Dungy's team in 2002 to the Superbowl (with a 12-4 record), but Bill Callahan took Gruden's team to the Superbowl as well.

Gruden actually had two losing seasons with "Tony Dungy's team" after winning the Superbowl....so I don't think your theory of riding Dungy's team holds much. He has had 4 winning seasons out of the seven seasons he's been with Tampa Bay. Making it six winning seasons, five division crowns, five playoff appearances and one Superbowl in 11 years. So yeah, he's overrated and sucks.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Gruden had 2 winning seasons out of the four seasons he was with the Raides (under Al Davis nonetheless). He actually had no losing seasons, going:

'98: 8-8
'99: 8-8
'00: 12-4 (went to AFC Championship)
'01: 10-6 (lost to NE in the "Tuck" game in the playoffs

Yes, he took Tony Dungy's team in 2002 to the Superbowl (with a 12-4 record), but Bill Callahan took Gruden's team to the Superbowl as well.

Gruden actually had two losing seasons with "Tony Dungy's team" after winning the Superbowl....so I don't think your theory of riding Dungy's team holds much. He has had 4 winning seasons out of the seven seasons he's been with Tampa Bay. Making it six winning seasons, five division crowns, five playoff appearances and one Superbowl in 11 years. So yeah, he's overrated and sucks.

Any chance of Zorn making it to the 3rd year if he goes 8-8 next year?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Any chance of Zorn making it to the 3rd year if he goes 8-8 next year?

Interesting...Zorn could very well be fired if he goes 8-8, yet Al Davis did not fire Gruden after going 8-8 for two season.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Interesting...Zorn could very well be fired if he goes 8-8, yet Al Davis did not fire Gruden after going 8-8 for two season.

Zorn won't make 8-8 next season unless some major changes occur with his offensive scheme. I wouldn't mind Gruden coming here as OC. The WCO sucks and is rather antiquated.

[djnemo65]

Although losing 4 straight to miss the playoffs was not great, I still see Tampa Bay as a team that has overachieved on the field the last couple of seasons. They've been able to consistently challenge for division titles and make the playoffs with rosters that appeared, to me at least, pretty flawed going into each season.

That Gruden has been able to put up respectable numbers without any playmakers of merit and a rotating stable of washed-up QB's is impressive.

So I get firing the GM because their player acquisitions have been spotty the last few years, but I don't get firing the coach.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Any chance of Zorn making it to the 3rd year if he goes 8-8 next year?

First let me say if we commit to Zorn for 2 years. You have to give him 3 years. For the following reasons.
1) to allow his first year rookies to emerge
2) to allow the WCO to develop
3) because history shows it takes a average of 3 seasons for a new coach to bring a losing team up to contension (I know about the exeptions)

I also think it will depend on how and by who we lose 8 games to. Our wins should be convinsing and dominate. Our loses should be very close and to high caliber teams. And can be contributed to mistakes of a developing WCO. The D should be dominate and there should be a sense of overall consistancy. Also would have to see us getting stronger as the season progresses.

If we have a 6-2 start and end up 8-8 Zorns gone. If we however have a 2-6 start and start to gel mid season, then a 3rd season is in order. IMO

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by 44ever

First let me say if we commit to Zorn for 2 years. You have to give him 3 years. For the following reasons.
1) to allow his first year rookies to emerge
2) to allow the WCO to develop
3) because history shows it takes a average of 3 seasons for a new coach to bring a losing team up to contension (I know about the exeptions)

I also think it will depend on how and by who we lose 8 games to. Our wins should be convinsing and dominate. Our loses should be very close and to high caliber teams. And can be contributed to mistakes of a developing WCO. The D should be dominate and there should be a sense of overall consistancy. Also would have to see us getting stronger as the season progresses.

If we have a 6-2 start and end up 8-8 Zorns gone. If we however have a 2-6 start and start to gel mid season, then a 3rd season is in order. IMO

Yeah I agree.

It's foolish to give a rookie head coach two years to build a formidable team. What were the expectations when he was hired in the first place? Being that he didn't have credentials to even become a head coach you have to give him ample time to grow into the position.

If they fire him after 2 or 3 seasons it would show that they didn't have faith in him to start with and it would also prove the ineptitude of the front office.


The Skins better start making some long term plans at some point because their fad strategies just are not working out. Show you have some foresight and are wise enough to have faith in your own decisions...damn.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Zorn won't make 8-8 next season unless some major changes occur with his offensive scheme. I wouldn't mind Gruden coming here as OC. The WCO sucks and is rather antiquated.

What sort of offense do you think Jon "West Coast Offense" Gruden would run here?

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What sort of offense do you think Jon "West Coast Offense" Gruden would run here?

You beat me to it. Too funny!