And with the 6th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the redskins select...........

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

And that's why I call him an adequate QB. And he doesn't need to put the Ravens on his back, given that they've always had above average running game and elite defense.

Exactly he ain't bad but ain't nothing special either.

Folks on here that think he is great what would you trade to get him?

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by mooby

Where does Roethlisberger stand on your list? I only ask because him and Manning have had similar careers, 2 SB wins each aided in part by great defense along with opportunistic offense.

You have to deduct points for alleged sexual assault.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

You have to deduct points for alleged sexual assault.

You know, I think he did it, which makes him a POS as a person, but in this list on field performance should be the only measurement. Hence why Vick is in the good-to-great category. I still think Vick, whilst saying and doing all the right things in the public eye, probably isn't as sorry as people think he is.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Flacco is not great but gets the job done. The Ravens have been to the playoffs every year he's been their starting QB. He plays in a tough conference, which features a perennial top ten defense (Steelers). He's not elite, but he's not terrible. I don't get people sh*tting on him all the time (including dumb a$$ Ravens fans).

I think the reason people defecate on him is if he was the terrific QB some people make him out to be, with the talent he has surrounding him they should have been going deep into the playoffs every year. But with the exception of his rookie year in 2008 where they won their first two playoff games, the Ravens have been one and done in the playoffs each year since.

Any average quarterback can get a stacked team to the playoffs. Jason Campbell could do that. Buy my point is, how can Flacco be even marginally better than Campbell when their numbers are fairly similar and Flacco has played on stacked teams and Campbell has played on not great teams? In my mind, that makes Flacco look worse than better.

[REDSKINS4ever]

Flacco is another Jim McMahon. Not really a prolific passer like Elway or Marino, but a QB who has decent wideouts, a powerful running game, and a ferocious defense.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

I think the reason people defecate on him is if he was the terrific QB some people make him out to be, with the talent he has surrounding him they should have been going deep into the playoffs every year. But with the exception of his rookie year in 2008 where they won their first two playoff games, the Ravens have been one and done in the playoffs each year since.

Any average quarterback can get a stacked team to the playoffs. Jason Campbell could do that. Buy my point is, how can Flacco be even marginally better than Campbell when their numbers are fairly similar and Flacco has played on stacked teams and Campbell has played on not great teams? In my mind, that makes Flacco look worse than better.

You make it sound like we're talking about a 10 year period....but it's been only 4 years. And in those 4 years:

- 2008: Lost to the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game (as a rookie)
- 2009: Lost to the Colts in the 2nd round of the playoffs
- 2010: Lost to the Steelers in the 2nd round of the playoffs (the game where both Boldin and TJ Housh dropped TDs in the 4th quarter)
- 2011: The Ravens were a Lee Evans dropped TD from going to the Superbowl

I'd be curious to see what other average/below average QBs could do with a team like the Ravens. Still, you have to have some talent to be a playoff team four years in a row, including two AFC Championship appearances...or at the do enough to get the team there.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

You make it sound like we're talking about a 10 year period....but it's been only 4 years. And in those 4 years:

- 2008: Lost to the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game (as a rookie)
- 2009: Lost to the Colts in the 2nd round of the playoffs
- 2010: Lost to the Steelers in the 2nd round of the playoffs (the game where both Boldin and TJ Housh dropped TDs in the 4th quarter)
- 2011: The Ravens were a Lee Evans dropped TD from going to the Superbowl

I'd be curious to see what other average/below average QBs could do with a team like the Ravens. Still, you have to have some talent to be a playoff team four years in a row, including two AFC Championship appearances...or at the do enough to get the team there.

Ok bottom line would yo uwant him on the Skins over say Peyton or RG3? I would not. I take him over Sanchez.

If you put JF on the Skins between 08 to 11 he would not have had that same success in the playoffs or even had seen the playoffs.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by mredskins

Ok bottom line would yo uwant him on the Skins over say Peyton or RG3? I would not. I take him over Sanchez.

If you put JF on the Skins between 08 to 11 he would not have had that same success in the playoffs or even had seen the playoffs.

People here are arguing that Flacco is a below average QB on the Ravens. I haven't said that he's elite or anything like that. I just make the argument that he's a good QB on a team with a very good running game and a very good/elite defense. Still, even with all of that, a QB has to have some talent to have the type of success the Ravens have had...or at the least manage the position well enough to have that success.

Who knows if he had had success here with the Redskins. The point is that he's been a good QB in the situation he has been with the Ravens.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

You make it sound like we're talking about a 10 year period....but it's been only 4 years. And in those 4 years:

- 2008: Lost to the Steelers in the AFC Championship Game (as a rookie)
- 2009: Lost to the Colts in the 2nd round of the playoffs
- 2010: Lost to the Steelers in the 2nd round of the playoffs (the game where both Boldin and TJ Housh dropped TDs in the 4th quarter)
- 2011: The Ravens were a Lee Evans dropped TD from going to the Superbowl

I'd be curious to see what other average/below average QBs could do with a team like the Ravens. Still, you have to have some talent to be a playoff team four years in a row, including two AFC Championship appearances...or at the do enough to get the team there.

You must not have ready my post. I never said anything about 10 years. I think 4 years is long enough to describe someone's body of work. My point was any average quarterback can go deep in the playoffs with a stacked team. Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Mark Sanchez, Alex Smith. All of these guys are not top tier QB's yet made it deep in the playoffs because their teams were stacked at skill positions on offense defense and teams.

You said "Still, you have to have some talent to be a playoff team four years in a row." Any average QB in the NFL has some talent. And that is exactly my point, that Flacco is good enough to get them TO the playoffs but not to the Super Bowl. He hasn't been able to beat the elite teams. You have to be the best to be the best. All of the average QB's I listed won or got close to the Super Bowl. Not because they were great, but because their teams were great. You haven't said anything different than what I said really.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

You must not have ready my post. I never said anything about 10 years. I think 4 years is long enough to describe someone's body of work. My point was any average quarterback can go deep in the playoffs with a stacked team. Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Mark Sanchez, Alex Smith. All of these guys are not top tier QB's yet made it deep in the playoffs because their teams were stacked at skill positions on offense defense and teams.

You said "Still, you have to have some talent to be a playoff team four years in a row." Any average QB in the NFL has some talent. And that is exactly my point, that Flacco is good enough to get them TO the playoffs but not to the Super Bowl. He hasn't been able to beat the elite teams. You have to be the best to be the best. All of the average QB's I listed won or got close to the Super Bowl. Not because they were great, but because their teams were great. You haven't said anything different than what I said really.

I don't think my opinion is that far away from yours. I just don't think Flacco is as terrible as some people make him out to be. I am not going to be naive and say that he's elite and on the same level as Brady/Manning/Brees, but the way some people talk about him (including Ravens fan) it would make you think that he is the QB of a perennial loser.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I don't think my opinion is that far away from yours. I just don't think Flacco is as terrible as some people make him out to be. I am not going to be naive and say that he's elite and on the same level as Brady/Manning/Brees, but the way some people talk about him (including Ravens fan) it would make you think that he is the QB of a perennial loser.

I understand. I think my main point was simply that you could plug in an average QB to the Ravens and they would most likely still make the playoffs each year.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

I understand. I think my main point was simply that you could plug in an average QB to the Ravens and they would most likely still make the playoffs each year.

Kyle Boller disagrees.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by mooby

Kyle Boller disagrees.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by mooby

Kyle Boller disagrees.

Kyle Boller would have to be an average quarterback first... That would be stretching things a bit.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

Kyle Boller would have to be an average quarterback first... That would be stretching things a bit.

I would say he was about average for that time period, average considering the fact there was a lot of terrible qb's during that time. I would consider Flacco above-average. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Ravens have made the playoffs every year with Flacco under center. He's certainly better than McNair/Boller.