All things Middle East related

[SunnySide]

President Biden made 3 points, among many, yesterday that i didnt consider.

1. Taliban was doing a "ceasefire" for the past year or so bc they were promised a May 1, 2021 withdrawl. So if we decided to stay and break our agreement .. it wouldnt have been under the ceasefire environment we saw the past year or so but an all out attack.

2. When he said "its not a foregone conclusion the Taliban would take over", that was a diplomatic response and requested by Afghanistan leaders as to avoid a "crisis of confidence". I think President Biden knew the Taliban would take over, not that quickly but he knew it was days not months.

3. They way the ANA and its generals folded and bribed away = proof of exactly why it was the right choice to get out.

----------------------------

When I came into office, I inherited a deal that President Trump negotiated with the Taliban. Under his agreement, U.S. forces would be out of Afghanistan by May 1, 2021 — just a little over three months after I took office.

U.S. forces had already drawn down during the Trump administration from roughly 15,500 American forces to 2,500 troops in country, and the Taliban was at its strongest militarily since 2001.

The choice I had to make, as your President, was either to follow through on that agreement or be prepared to go back to fighting the Taliban in the middle of the spring fighting season.

There would have been no ceasefire after May 1. There was no agreement protecting our forces after May 1. There was no status quo of stability without American casualties after May 1.

There was only the cold reality of either following through on the agreement to withdraw our forces or escalating the conflict and sending thousands more American troops back into combat in Afghanistan, lurching into the third decade of conflict.

I stand squarely behind my decision. After 20 years, I’ve learned the hard way that there was never a good time to withdraw U.S. forces.

That’s why we were still there. We were clear-eyed about the risks. We planned for every contingency.

But I always promised the American people that I will be straight with you. The truth is: This did unfold more quickly than we had anticipated.

So what’s happened? Afghanistan political leaders gave up and fled the country. The Afghan military collapsed, sometimes without trying to fight.

If anything, the developments of the past week reinforced that ending U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan now was the right decision.

American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves. We spent over a trillion dollars. We trained and equipped an Afghan military force of some 300,000 strong — incredibly well equipped — a force larger in size than the militaries of many of our NATO allies.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...n-afghanistan/


Either recommit 20,000 plus troops to fight a strengthened Taliban (strengthened under Trumps watch) .. or get the hell out of there.

President Biden came out strong last night.

[mooby]

Definitely looking strong for sticking to his beliefs even in the face of a horrible atrocity.

I still think a better evacuation plan for our peoples and Afghanis that helped us was needed. We shouldn't have waited until the only land we held was Kabul's airport before prioritizing visas for these people. Should've been prioritizing visas for them earlier, I know he had other things that had to be done but they definitely had the foresight to know this could turn into the new Saigon.

[MTK]

Man, the images of people clinging to the C17 as it took off and some people falling off, seriously WTF

Human remains found in wheel well of C-17 military plane that departed from Kabul

Afghan man filmed himself trying to escape Kabul on side of C-17 during takeoff

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by MTK

Man, the images of people clinging to the C17 as it took off and some people falling off, seriously WTF

Human remains found in wheel well of C-17 military plane that departed from Kabul

Afghan man filmed himself trying to escape Kabul on side of C-17 during takeoff

They won't fight to save their families and their own lives or their Country but they will jump on a moving cargo Jet?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Giantone

They won't fight to save their families and their own lives or their Country but they will jump on a moving cargo Jet?

Straight up cowards.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Straight up cowards.

I want this to come out the right way. I wish no harm to the Afghans ,I feel for their plight and I am shocked at the photos coming out yet why are people mad now? We have been there for way over 20 years and the Army gave up and ran. We have suffered our own loss's and spent almost a trillion dollars and I ask when is enough enough? Two weeks ago no one was even thinking about this withdrawal and now it's the poor Afghans . A deal was stuck with the trump administration and Biden honor it for the safe guard for all had he not there would be more fighting . The Biden Administration screwed up the withdrawal but trump needs to keep his mouth shut ,it was his deal .

[JackLord]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I want this to come out the right way. I wish no harm to the Afghans ,I feel for their plight and I am shocked at the photos coming out yet why are people mad now? We have been there for way over 20 years and the Army gave up and ran. We have suffered our own loss's and spent almost a trillion dollars and I ask when is enough enough? Two weeks ago no one was even thinking about this withdrawal and now it's the poor Afghans . A deal was stuck with the trump administration and Biden honor it for the safe guard for all had he not there would be more fighting . The Biden Administration screwed up the withdrawal but trump needs to keep his mouth shut ,it was his deal .

Well Jintsfan- that is a good post and completely correct imho.

But- yea there is always one of those- it is the bold that you and others here are downplaying.

Once again, both Trump and Biden wanted or want out of Afghanistan. And though one could justify remaining, most everyone is in agreement. So there is little to dispute about that.

It is the shambolic and stupid way this withdrawal has gone that upsets people and for good reason. Biden has ignored his intelligence sources and military.

He pulled troops out before- BEFORE- we had our civilians out. Not to mention Allied civilians and scores of Afghans who helped us and now will have a target on their backs.

Telling our people to shelter in place or to proceed to Kabul Airport past Taliban checkpoints on their own is rather callous. One hopes they are all in or near Kabul rather than Kandahar.

And Joe being Joe stated in that blustery certitude that is his trademark that this would not be like Saigon.

Well that was a bit of a whopper, no?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I want this to come out the right way. I wish no harm to the Afghans ,I feel for their plight and I am shocked at the photos coming out yet why are people mad now? We have been there for way over 20 years and the Army gave up and ran. We have suffered our own loss's and spent almost a trillion dollars and I ask when is enough enough? Two weeks ago no one was even thinking about this withdrawal and now it's the poor Afghans . A deal was stuck with the trump administration and Biden honor it for the safe guard for all had he not there would be more fighting . The Biden Administration screwed up the withdrawal but trump needs to keep his mouth shut ,it was his deal .

60,000 afghans died fighting the Taliban G-1. I wouldn’t say they won’t fight. But like us, and other countries have realized there is no stopping the warlords (who are now posing as a government), and Trump played a huge part in making them feel legitimate and a part of things just like he did the white trash in our own country.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Giantone

They won't fight to save their families and their own lives or their Country but they will jump on a moving cargo Jet?

Do you understand how desperate they are to get the hell out of there? Fight the Taliban? Are you serious

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by MTK

Do you understand how desperate they are to get the hell out of there? Fight the Taliban? Are you serious

20years and 350,000 troops trained and they all ran! What else are we to do?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Giantone

20years and 350,000 troops trained and they all ran! What else are we to do?

I was merely pointing out that it's pretty damn sad when clinging to the side of a C17 sounds like your best option for the day.

[skinsfan69]

Thanks for posting that Sunnyside. I may not agree w/ Biden on a lot of things but I stand w/ him 100 percent on this. He got this right. Way to go Joe.

[SunnySide]

read an op-ed from Condelezza Rice (sp?) and she mentioned the South Korea approach.

Condense our presence to kabul and surrounding area (S Korea) then maintain a US military presence there, allow us to keep that strategically located air base open and basically keep 25k plus troops there indefinitely like we do in S Korea. That way we have a hub strategically right in the middle of the ME, have a strong ally in Afghanistan, would allow the women and children in Kabul and surrounding area a chance at freedom and give them time to strengthen their democracy. She said it took s korea longer than 20 years to figure out their democracy and they were more advanced than afghanistan.

We were never going to win over the rural areas.

Of course, this is hindsight and would require us to take this approach 20 years ago .. when the Condelleza Rice's of the world were running the show.

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

read an op-ed from Condelezza Rice (sp?) and she mentioned the South Korea approach.

Condense our presence to kabul and surrounding area (S Korea) then maintain a US military presence there, allow us to keep that strategically located air base open and basically keep 25k plus troops there indefinitely like we do in S Korea. That way we have a hub strategically right in the middle of the ME, have a strong ally in Afghanistan, would allow the women and children in Kabul and surrounding area a chance at freedom and give them time to strengthen their democracy. She said it took s korea longer than 20 years to figure out their democracy and they were more advanced than afghanistan.

We were never going to win over the rural areas.

Of course, this is hindsight and would require us to take this approach 20 years ago .. when the Condelleza Rice's of the world were running the show.

We were essentially doing that approach (with fewer troops) since the Obama administration. Trump and Biden decided to shit-can that strategy.

[Chico23231]

Complete and utter disaster that Joe Biden created

Enough of the excuse making. Enough.

There are around what 10k Americans and 50-100k Afghanistan allies completely trapped

Enough with the excuses. This is Biden’a disaster and only his

Clowns defend him at this point

Let’s focus on the Americans right now. I think Biden should coalition build and account for all nations with people there and move to bring all options on.